Carbonation time

[badlee]

So, gave my two Pence worth in a thread about lack of carbonation after a few weeks of waiting.
I said that I get carbonation(full) in four days. If carbonating to English levels or higher,I get full carbonation in four days,five max.

So,this is how it is done at badleebrewed.

1) I do a two week primary for beers under 1.055 and three weeks for anything above that.

2)I ferment at between 15c and ambient temperatures, which can be quite high here in Thailand. But if I had to average it out,I would say 21c.

3) I bottle right out of primary and prime each bottle individually.

4) When capped, I tip the bottles a few times to dissolve the sugar a little.

5) I store in my "beer cupboard" which is just a free standing cupboard in my diningroom. Not temperature controled.

That is it, nothing more and nothing less. No fancy tricks,no drinking flat beer.

How long are you guys/girls taking?

 

[joshesmusica]

just posting to read all the responses.

 

[joshesmusica]

how much priming sugar are you using?
what kinds of ales are you fermenting at ambient 21 (which could mean like 25 or higher inside the fermenter depending on certain things)?
i'm not saying that it's not possible, but i'm saying that there are people who have been using the same method (kinda) as you are using, and they have been doing it for years and years, and yet they're not getting carbonation so fast, and i've never heard of it happening so fast without it being too much yeast transferred into the bottles, or an infection, or extreme temps. either way, it's likely that those three things are not producing great beer. drinkable maybe, but not great.

and maybe you could possibly document something like this so we could visually see proof of your carbonation levels?
http://homebrewmanual.com/bottle-carbonation-experiment/

 

[badlee]

My ales that are fermented at 21c are done in my fermentation fridge with the probe stuck to the FV.
I only ferment with Brett Drie or Belle Saison at ambient temps(not in the fridge).
I use 1.8gr of cane sugar per 500ml bottle for English ales.
I use 4gr per 630ml bottle for styles with "higher than English" carbonation.
I will have a look at the link provided,for sure,but this is starting to feel a little bit like an attack of sorts.
My beer is not crap,that I know.
People I work with often pay me to brew batches fir them,not legal I know,but neither is homebrewing in Thailand.
I have also had resident Americans in BKK(where there is a lot of craft beer availabl) asking me to brew for them.

 

[joshesmusica]

I'm not trying to attack you. Just a skeptic.
I've also had people offer to pay me to brew beer (i won't do it though because of that illegal part), but i know for sure that they ones they tried aren't even the best beer out there. people offering to buy your beer isn't necessarily a sign that it's great beer.
what temps are you typically bottle conditioning at? how long do you leave them in the fridge before you open them? what is the carbonation level like after it's been sitting in your glass for 15-20 mins? what do you mean by carbonating to english levels or higher? typically english levels are the low end of the scale. are your beers tasting completely finished at that time, or still quite green?
again i'm just trying to get as much info as possible, because i'm typically taking 1 1/2 to 2 weeks to get to that full carbonation (meaning suspended gas, nice head, and that will easily last 20 mins sitting in the glass). then usually my beers taste best at about the 3 week mark. i do the same for ferment times as you do.

 

[badlee]

Fair enough.
By "English levels" I mean 1.5-1.8.
I condition at what ever the temperature is in my cupboard. So,for the sake of argument,lets say roughly 27c in the warmer months and 18-20c in the cooler months.
I do not put a beer in the fridge until a few hours before I wish to consume it. The reason for this being(obvious?) that if ssid beer is too cold,you(meaning I) do not taste it.
The beer might not be at it's best at 4-5 days,but I never insinuated that it did. It does,however,not taste green.
Carbonation after 15-20 minutes is still roughly the same,but as I go for lower levels,well.....in a bottled English beer with about 1.8-2.0 levels of carbonation,there would not be the same amount left by the end of an Imperial Pint.
Hey,I will tell you what; if ever you should find yourself on holiday in Thailand,please look me up and I will pour you a couple of pints. Hell,if you should be here long enough,you could be there on brew day,bottle day and day 4-5 to have a pint.
Please do take that as me being as sincere as I can be.
Cheers

 

[joshesmusica]

as i said, i'm not trying to tear you down. i'm all about going against conventional wisdom. i frequent the experiments that Brulosopher does, and am soon planning on starting my own experiments. As a skeptical person, I have to ask a ton of questions and rule out all variables and figure out why you're getting full carbonation at 4-5 days and i've never heard anybody else claiming this. don't be offended, i do the same thing to political and religious people too. if a person can't stand up to the heat of the questions and defend themselves, then that shows they don't actually know why they believe what they are saying to be true.
I'm not trying to bash your knowledge on the subject or anything like that either, it's just that sometimes you're not explaining your process so well, so then it makes me question. So when you said about that about english levels or higher, then that pretty much contains every beer style out there, which made me question if you knew what english levels were. because as it was stated, it made it sound like you get most of your styles at full carbonation at 4 days, but with english styles and higher you get it at 4-5 days. so then it sounds like you thought there were a lot of styles under the english styles as far as carbonation levels.
then when you say you're fermenting at an average of 21, some were at 15, which means that in order to average 21 you also had to have some averaging at 27. so then it makes me wonder if you know about fermentation temps. especially when you mentioned ambient air, which makes it sound like your ambient temps are 21, possibly up to 27, which means ferment temps are even higher than that.
then you're telling me that you just use a set amount of priming sugar, while in itself is ok, and people have been doing it for a long time, it's not precise with every style, which makes me wonder just how much carbonation you're actually getting (aka that it might be higher than you're expecting).
then you're fermenting and bottle conditioning at higher temps in general, which means there's less dissolved co2 in the beer before priming.
and now you're saying that it's obvious as to why you don't put a beer in the fridge until a few hours before consumption, when common practice is to put it in about 2 days before consumption in order to get the co2 in the head space to dissolve back into the beer.

and you did clear up some of the misunderstanding, which is exactly why i asked the questions.

not because it's absolutely unbelievable you're getting full carbonation in 4-5 days (there are others claiming to have it in a week's time), but because all of the stuff you're saying should be working against your carbonation levels.
then again, i visited your blog, and it seems you're doing a lot of sours. which would tell me that your beer is infected, just intentionally!

all that said, i'm looking to see your processes and brewing practices because you're claiming something that i've never seen anyone say they've accomplished, so then i would like to see what you're doing differently in order to try and replicate it (as long as they're proper practices), as i would love to be enjoying beer a lot quicker than the 2-3 week point that everyone is claiming it takes. i would honestly like to see (only if you're truly interested) a side-by-side comparison of your carbonation levels like in the link above. and i have officially added temperature vs. time to my list of experiments.

 

[badlee]

Hey,without people like you,nothing would ever be questioned and therefore never be "proven".
So I sepect that for sure,no quibbles there.
As for my not being so clear on some points,I accept that too. I tried to clear that up.
Just for the record on fermentation temperature.
1. I ferment standard ales on my fridge,set at 21c.
2. Saisona are started at about 20 but I tend to let them "go where they will" as far as temperature rise goes.
3. I ferment a few lagers every year,obviously at lower than ale temperatures.

I am a father of two,both young boys. I am a teacher(I like to think dedicated) and a husband.
I have back problems which require me to spend at least three evenings a week at physio.
So, I would like very much to be able to dedicate enough time for an expetiment,sadly however I do not have that time to spare at present.
As soon as I do,I will do my very best yo get something down in a scientific manner to show.
Lee