Carbonation issues cropping up

[brewdaddy568]

Ok, I've been homebrewing for ~1yr now without issue (first time poster).

Recently, I've run into issues with my carbonation.

Brewed two batches at the same time:
Batch #1: Belgian IPA, 5gal, perfect carbonation (and taste) after 10 days.
Batch #2: Pumpkin spice porter, 2gal, still flat after 4wks (tastes ok)

Both were brewed, racked, and bottled on the same day. Stored in the same place.

Batch #1 was in a 5gal carboy for secondary. 3/4cup priming sugar boiled in 2cups water for 5min.

Batch #2 was conditioned in growlers with stoppers/airlocks for secondary. Primed with 1/4cup sugar boiled in 2/3 cup water for 5min.

Any ideas why one is fine and the other is flat? Any ideas on how to fix the carbonation or is the small batch shot?

Other recent carbonation issues in my recent batches: (both were fermented on the same schedule of 1wk primary, 2wk secondary, 10days before sampling first bottle)

A 5gal octoberfest (brewed as an ale) was flat at 10 days but every bottle since is wildly overcarbonated (first glass poured is 90% foam)

A 2gal brown ale was flat at 10 days. I shook a bottle a day before sampling again at 3 wks and all that did was stir up the yeast sediment and give me serious gas.

 

[Hello]

To be clear, what bottles are being used for the 2 gallon batch? Are they growlers and stoppers? Sure they're air tight?

As for the 5 gallon batch that is now seriously over carbonated, did you use a priming calculator? Did you bottle exactly 5 gallons? How warm are the bottles?

Don't shake them.

 

[doug293cz]

Were the yeasts different for the two batches? If the pumpkin ale used a highly flocculating yeast, there may have been fewer cells in suspension at bottling. This could cause carbonation to take longer. Also, if the pumpkin is a bigger beer, that could also cause slower carbonation. It's pretty difficult to get enough yeast out of the beer to totally prevent carbonation. Give it a few more weeks. Maybe shake the bottles a little to make sure what yeast is there is well suspended, and place them somewhere a few degrees warmer to encourage the yeast.

Brew on

 

[Yooper]

The reason that batch #2 is flat is due to the lack of priming sugar- 1/4 cup is almost nothing.

 

[Rev2010]

The reason that batch #2 is flat is due to the lack of priming sugar- 1/4 cup is almost nothing.

He noted the second batch was only two gallons. If 1/4 cup is 2oz of priming sugar than that's the same level of priming sugar as is 5oz for 5 gallons.


Rev.

 

[Yooper]

He noted the second batch was only two gallons. If 1/4 cup is 2oz of priming sugar than that's the same level of priming sugar as is 5oz for 5 gallons.


Rev.

Oh, you're right! I missed that. 1/4 is still pretty low (I doubt it's two ounces) but it shouldn't be totally flat.

Since it's hard to guess how much a "cup" of that sugar is, a little kitchen scale would be a great help.

 

[Rev2010]

Since it's hard to guess how much a "cup" of that sugar is, a little kitchen scale would be a great help.

Yep, because a cup is a measure of volume, not weight, so the OP should really be using ounces. Blame our stupid American/English system with its ounces and fluid ounces. I do really wish we'd switch to the metric system. Divisibles of ten for one... everyone using the metric system knows there's 1000 meters in a kilometer for example. Most Americans know how many inches are in a foot but not how many feet are in a mile (5280). Plus they clearly separate weight and volume with grams and liters. OK, enough of my rant

Anyhow, I figured 2oz for his 1/4 cup since that would be the liquid volume.


Rev.

 

[Jsamp]

+1 on the kitchen scale. I have 2. One general purpose that measures out pounds and and a smaller one that has 1/10 of a gram accuracy. The large one I use for my grains and the smaller one to measure out hops, dme, and priming sugar. I bought both at Harbor Freight for a reasonable price.

 

[brewdaddy568]

To be clear, what bottles are being used for the 2 gallon batch? Are they growlers and stoppers? Sure they're air tight?

As for the 5 gallon batch that is now seriously over carbonated, did you use a priming calculator? Did you bottle exactly 5 gallons? How warm are the bottles?

Don't shake them.

The small batch was bottled in 22oz bottles, just like the full size batch.

The growlers were just used as mini-carboys. I tested one by lifting it by the stopper, so I can assume it was pretty tight. Will air getting into the secondary affect the carbonation?

I didn't use the calculator-- when I ran some sample numbers it always came out with the same number +/- 10%. Am I just not using it right? Are there key factors that change the sugar needed other than the size of the batch? OG?

Due to sedimentation, etc., my yield was less than 5gal -- I think we got 24 22oz bottles or ~4.2gal. Temp for all the batches is ~66F, same as prior batches that had good carbonation

 

[brewdaddy568]

Were the yeasts different for the two batches? If the pumpkin ale used a highly flocculating yeast, there may have been fewer cells in suspension at bottling. This could cause carbonation to take longer. Also, if the pumpkin is a bigger beer, that could also cause slower carbonation. It's pretty difficult to get enough yeast out of the beer to totally prevent carbonation. Give it a few more weeks. Maybe shake the bottles a little to make sure what yeast is there is well suspended, and place them somewhere a few degrees warmer to encourage the yeast.

Brew on

Funny you should mention the yeasts. . . the pumpkin ale called for an American Ale yeast and the IPA called for Belgian Ale. . . but in the heat of the moment the two got switched. Per other posts I've read, I only added 1/3 of a packet to the small batch (couldn't measure exactly). Visible signs of fermentation appeared normal.

Are there particular yeast strains prone to excess sedimentation/high floc? The other small batch that was flat was fermented with English Ale yeast.

As other posters responded, I need to get a proper scale (would a baby scale be accurate enough?) but what about the water used for boiling the priming sugar in? Should I scale it down directly for small batches or do I need more/less?

I took a pair of test bottles, shook them and brought them upstairs (in the pantry out of the light) and will report back in a week if they have more bubbles. . .

 

[doug293cz]

Funny you should mention the yeasts. . . the pumpkin ale called for an American Ale yeast and the IPA called for Belgian Ale. . . but in the heat of the moment the two got switched. Per other posts I've read, I only added 1/3 of a packet to the small batch (couldn't measure exactly). Visible signs of fermentation appeared normal.

Are there particular yeast strains prone to excess sedimentation/high floc? The other small batch that was flat was fermented with English Ale yeast.

As other posters responded, I need to get a proper scale (would a baby scale be accurate enough?) but what about the water used for boiling the priming sugar in? Should I scale it down directly for small batches or do I need more/less?

I took a pair of test bottles, shook them and brought them upstairs (in the pantry out of the light) and will report back in a week if they have more bubbles. . .

The yeast suppliers' web sites give information about their yeasts with such things as typical attenuation, optimal temperature range, flocculation characteristics, etc.

Amount of water used to dissolve the priming sugar is irrelevant, unless the volume is a significant fraction of the batch size.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Don't shake them.

Why not? Shaking won't add any O2 that isn't already in the bottle, won't do anything to the CO2, and any sediment will have time to settle back out while waiting additional time for more carbonation. What's the supposed problem?

Brew on

 

[Hello]

Why not? Shaking won't add any O2 that isn't already in the bottle, won't do anything to the CO2, and any sediment will have time to settle back out while waiting additional time for more carbonation. What's the supposed problem?

Brew on

It was more tongue in cheek. Like shaking a soda...no one is going to lose an eye. There are no supposed problems.


I wasn't sure if you had bottled in growlers with stoppers. While they should be air tight, I would have figured that was your problem. It sounds like it isn't. I am unsure, but perhaps just more time is needed. 1/4 cup of sugar isn't really a whole lot so the recommendation of a scale is a great one.