Carbonation Confusion

[ToeCutter10]

Hi all. I'm new to brewing cider and new to this forum.
I did a 5 gallon batch of store bought fresh pressed 100% apple juice. Fermentation went well. O.G 1.056, F.G .996. I used lalvin ec 1118. Transferred to secondary after 2weeks and let sit for 2 additional weeks. I bottled today and wanted sparkling cider so I racked to bottling bucket and added 141 g of dextrose dissolved in 1.5 cups of water. I entered my numbers into a carbonation calculator and came out to 141 g.
I have read so many different opinions on how to properly carbonate and store cider that I'm confused what to do with my bottles. Right now they are in a darkish room at 68F. My plan is to leave them there for 2 weeks then try a sample. I have read about possible bottle bombs, but I'm hoping I carbonated properly. Do I need to cold crash? Should i have added a sprinkle of yeast before bottling because of the FG of .996?
Any input will help

 

[Blacksmith1]

I had the same questions on my first try.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/carbonating-after-3-months-in-carboy.667567/
You seem to have a pretty good handle on this. If I'm wrong then someone will quickly correct any misconceptions. Give it the 2 weeks, then throw it in the fridge. Cold keeps the carb level much better than room temp once opened.
Btw mine was fermented dry, I did not add yeast and it carbed nicely.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

@ToeCutter10 welcome to the forum.

 

[Bourniplus]

Hi,
RDWHAH.
it all looks good to me. Soon you'll have some nice sparkling cider.

 

[ToeCutter10]

Phewww. Thank you all for your reassurance. I appreciate the support and the welcome message.
I have brewed beer before and the carbonation levels were hit and miss so I'm wanting my first cider run to be a success. I'm going to try an apple/pomegranate cider next using an ale yeast for a more relaxed fermentation. I noticed the Lalvin ec1118 was aggressive in eating all the sugars then pretty much stopped.
Any good recipe suggestions for apple/pomegranate? I'm only doing a small batch as a tester.

 

[Chalkyt]

Yep, all sounds good. FYI, I often quote (and use) Jolicoeur Table15.3 which is quite handy as it relates carbonation to Volumes of CO2, g/L of fermented sugar, SG drop, and Pressure in atmospheres.

If I want Petillant carbonation (i.e. "just the right amount of fizz"... 2.0 -2.5 atmospheres of CO2 seems to be popular), after fermentation is finished I will add fermentable sugar to the bottling bucket to bring the SG up by something like 0.002 or 0.003, then bottle for 2-4 weeks. I haven't needed to add extra yeast and these days don't use EC1118 as it seems to go too fast "blowing off" flavour in the process. Currently I am getting good results from SO4 or WLP775 and taking it "cold and slow".

I have seen a rough "rule of thumb" that says 0.001 SG drop will produce about 0.5 atmospheres of CO2.

 

[ToeCutter10]

Yep, all sounds good. FYI, I often quote (and use) Jolicoeur Table15.3 which is quite handy as it relates carbonation to Volumes of CO2, g/L of fermented sugar, SG drop, and Pressure in atmospheres.

If I want Petillant carbonation (i.e. "just the right amount of fizz"... 2.0 -2.5 atmospheres of CO2 seems to be popular), after fermentation is finished I will add fermentable sugar to the bottling bucket to bring the SG up by something like 0.002 or 0.003, then bottle for 2-4 weeks. I haven't needed to add extra yeast and these days don't use EC1118 as it seems to go too fast "blowing off" flavour in the process. Currently I am getting good results from SO4 or WLP775 and taking it "cold and slow".

I have seen a rough "rule of thumb" that says 0.001 SG drop will produce about 0.5 atmospheres of CO2.

 

[ToeCutter10]

Thanks for the suggestions Chalkyt. I had my eye on S04 and I have heard a lot of good things from Nottingham as well. I guess I'll be doing a lot of experiments in the future. That's half the fun, right?
I will search for Jolicoeur table and give it a try. I have all the ingredients for my small batch apple/pom, just need a trip to brew supply for yeast.

 

[Blacksmith1]

For warmer temps s-05 works well. I've done 71-B and K1-V1116 with pretty good results as well.

 

[blasterooni]

Thanks for the suggestions Chalkyt. I had my eye on S04 and I have heard a lot of good things from Nottingham as well. I guess I'll be doing a lot of experiments in the future. That's half the fun, right?
I will search for Jolicoeur table and give it a try. I have all the ingredients for my small batch apple/pom, just need a trip to brew supply for yeast.

I got wonderful results from S04. I will be using it again soon. I liked it better than nottinghams but i also used better juice with the s04. The apples make a huge difference in the outcome. If you can get your hands on some crab apples, juice them and add it to your store bought stuff.

 

[ToeCutter10]

I got wonderful results from S04. I will be using it again soon. I liked it better than nottinghams but i also used better juice with the s04. The apples make a huge difference in the outcome. If you can get your hands on some crab apples, juice them and add it to your store bought stuff.

I think I will buy S04 and Nottingham and try them both. I may need to buy more bottles now LOL.
Thanks for the input and advice everyone, it's always appreciated

 

[ToeCutter10]

Hi all
Today I started my apple/pomegranate cider. There are literally no videos or recipes that I could find for this.
Again iam in need of reassurance Lol.
So this is how I have prepared the batch.
I am doing 2 gallons. I used 5.5 Liters of fresh pressed 100% apple juice and 1.25 Liters of 100% pomegranate juice. I have started it in my fermenter today by adding 1/2 teaspoon pectin enzyme and a capsule of yeast nutrient. Tomorrow I will add 5.5 g of Nottingham yeast and let the fermentation begin!
Here's my question: I reserved 3/4 Liter of pomegranate juice which I will add to secondary fermentation for a bit more flavor. I am aware that this will restart fermentation again but will it really add any extra flavor or should I just put the rest of the juice in the fermenter tomorrow when I pitch my yeast. BTW the S.G right now is 1.053. That is without any additional sugars added.
Any thoughts?

 

[teddyearp]

Hey @ToeCutter10 welcome to the site from another n00b. Might want to add another 1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme, as my bag says 1/2 per gallon.

Going on, you will probably like the results from S-04 better than EC-1118. But the thing is, EC-1118 is such a BEAST! I used it my first three tries and it just gets on down with it's bad self. But, it doesn't clear as fast as S-04

For bottling, I would also suggest a plastic soda bottle of a brand and size that you keep in the fridge to do the 'simple' carbonation check. On my last run, however, I am using the gauges that @Maylar showed in the pasteurization sticky here. The reason being that I still don't get the carb level I hope for by just waiting a week and the bottle fairly hard. It has been a week and though the bottle is about as firm as the other soda bottles, it has only got to about 10 PSI. From the pics I saw in that thread, he was letting go to about 20 PSI and at 65-67 degrees that should give me about 2.2 volumes of CO-2.

So, your idea of two weeks sounds good. Cold crash once you think it's carbed enough. I'm too chicken to try pasteurization.

 

[ToeCutter10]

Hey @ToeCutter10 welcome to the site from another n00b. Might want to add another 1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme, as my bag says 1/2 per gallon.

Going on, you will probably like the results from S-04 better than EC-1118. But the thing is, EC-1118 is such a BEAST! I used it my first three tries and it just gets on down with it's bad self. But, it doesn't clear as fast as S-04

For bottling, I would also suggest a plastic soda bottle of a brand and size that you keep in the fridge to do the 'simple' carbonation check. On my last run, however, I am using the gauges that @Maylar showed in the pasteurization sticky here. The reason being that I still don't get the carb level I hope for by just waiting a week and the bottle fairly hard. It has been a week and though the bottle is about as firm as the other soda bottles, it has only got to about 10 PSI. From the pics I saw in that thread, he was letting go to about 20 PSI and at 65-67 degrees that should give me about 2.2 volumes of CO-2.

So, your idea of two weeks sounds good. Cold crash once you think it's carbed enough. I'm too chicken to try pasteurization.

Hey @ToeCutter10 welcome to the site from another n00b. Might want to add another 1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme, as my bag says 1/2 per gallon.

Going on, you will probably like the results from S-04 better than EC-1118. But the thing is, EC-1118 is such a BEAST! I used it my first three tries and it just gets on down with it's bad self. But, it doesn't clear as fast as S-04

For bottling, I would also suggest a plastic soda bottle of a brand and size that you keep in the fridge to do the 'simple' carbonation check. On my last run, however, I am using the gauges that @Maylar showed in the pasteurization sticky here. The reason being that I still don't get the carb level I hope for by just waiting a week and the bottle fairly hard. It has been a week and though the bottle is about as firm as the other soda bottles, it has only got to about 10 PSI. From the pics I saw in that thread, he was letting go to about 20 PSI and at 65-67 degrees that should give me about 2.2 volumes of CO-2.

So, your idea of two weeks sounds good. Cold crash once you think it's carbed enough. I'm too chicken to try pasteurization.

 

[ToeCutter10]

Hi Teddyearp. Welcome to the site. My first batch of cider which I bottled one week ago seems to be doing well. I use 1 liter plastic beer bottles so I am able to do the squeeze test regularly. They have become firm but still a bit of play in them. I will wait one more week then open one.
My package of enzyme suggests 1/4 tsp per 4.5 liters so I doubled it.
Do you have any suggestions regarding adding the rest of my pomegranate juice when I rack to secondary for extra flavor?

 

[teddyearp]

Well, I've never done pomegranate, but the few batches I have done, I reserve off some of the apple juice for 'secondary'. However, that said, when I rack off the original lees, I go ahead and bottle condition then. I'll put the reserved juice and most times about 2-1/2 tbsp of sugar dissolved in a tiny bit of hot water on the stove into a one gallon carboy. Rack into that, bottle. I've been using 11-12 oz swing tops and then the soda bottle is about 16 oz.

Like I said, the batch I've got in bottling right now went for a week with S-04. OG 1.065, FG 1.020. No read on the after 'sugars'. All my batches have felt firm after a week, that is why I'm using the gauge this time as I don't want to wait too much longer to drink. After all, we make this stuff to drink and not watch it age, lol. IMHO.

 

[Bourniplus]

Here's my question: I reserved 3/4 Liter of pomegranate juice which I will add to secondary fermentation for a bit more flavor. I am aware that this will restart fermentation again but will it really add any extra flavor or should I just put the rest of the juice in the fermenter tomorrow when I pitch my yeast. BTW the S.G right now is 1.053. That is without any additional sugars added.
Any thoughts?

The way I see it, it will all ferment anyway, so might as well add it right now, or it will just make the whole process longer. I've also read that about adding to secondary would keep more flavor, but meh... If you let it all ferment and age, I don't see how that would make a significant difference. When I want to add a certain sweetness (maple syrup, honey...) to my cider, I do it at the last minute when I open the bottle to drink. You might try adding your pomegranate juice right now, and add some in your glass at the time of drinking.

 

[ToeCutter10]

Fermentation has already begun on my apple/pomegranate cider so I will try adding the remaining pomegranate juice when I rack it.

 

[ToeCutter10]

Well it's been 10 days since I bottled my very first batch of apple cider. I was very excited to open the first bottle. It was beautifully chilled and pretty clear. I cracked it open and......zero carbonation!
Can anyone suggest or help me save this 5 gallons?
If I leave it longer at room temperature will it continue to carbonate?

 

[dmf38]

I allow at least a month for mine to fully carbonate. And I leave all my bottles in big plastic totes, just in case I get any bottle bombs. But also for convenient storage. Maybe you could leave them at room temperature for a couple more weeks and check again.

 

[ToeCutter10]

I allow at least a month for mine to fully carbonate. And I leave all my bottles in big plastic totes, just in case I get any bottle bombs. But also for convenient storage. Maybe you could leave them at room temperature for a couple more weeks and check again.

Thanks dmf38. I have been doing some research and I noticed a lot of guys/gals have the same problem. I indeed will leave it for at least two more weeks, perhaps one month and check them after that.
Worse case scenario I will open them all up and add a couple grains of yeast and recap the bottles. That oughta carb em up!

 

[S-Met]

Hi all
Today I started my apple/pomegranate cider. There are literally no videos or recipes that I could find for this.
Again iam in need of reassurance Lol.
So this is how I have prepared the batch.
I am doing 2 gallons. I used 5.5 Liters of fresh pressed 100% apple juice and 1.25 Liters of 100% pomegranate juice. I have started it in my fermenter today by adding 1/2 teaspoon pectin enzyme and a capsule of yeast nutrient. Tomorrow I will add 5.5 g of Nottingham yeast and let the fermentation begin!
Here's my question: I reserved 3/4 Liter of pomegranate juice which I will add to secondary fermentation for a bit more flavor. I am aware that this will restart fermentation again but will it really add any extra flavor or should I just put the rest of the juice in the fermenter tomorrow when I pitch my yeast. BTW the S.G right now is 1.053. That is without any additional sugars added.
Any thoughts?

I've done apple/pom a couple times. I fermentation the apple dry, then add pom to secondary. My theory is that primary is vigorous and blows off the subtle flavors that I want to showcase. Adding to secondary does technically start another primary, but the diluted sugar in 5+gal is not as vigorous.

Well it's been 10 days since I bottled my very first batch of apple cider. I was very excited to open the first bottle. It was beautifully chilled and pretty clear. I cracked it open and......zero carbonation!
Can anyone suggest or help me save this 5 gallons?
If I leave it longer at room temperature will it continue to carbonate?

I usually leave for 1-2 weeks at room temp before moving to cool storage. Room temp meaning 70-80.

Other possibility is a bad seal on the caps.