Carbonating in bottle with sugar cubes?

[ProfessorWoland]

This.

I'm not sure what the point of using sugar cubes is. It's more work, less consistent, and generally a total pain compared to batch priming. Aside from some rather hilarious claims about sugar and bacteria in this thread, I really do have to ask what value the OP is hoping to get out of doing his priming the most difficult and least controllable way possible.

Whilst Carbonation Drops are relatively cheap, sugar cubes are even cheaper.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Whilst Carbonation Drops are relatively cheap, sugar cubes are even cheaper.

Any reason you're not batch priming? Are you bottling straight from the primary, or do you have a bottling bucket?

 

[woozy]

This.

I'm not sure what the point of using sugar cubes is. It's more work, less consistent, and generally a total pain compared to batch priming. Aside from some rather hilarious claims about sugar and bacteria in this thread, I really do have to ask what value the OP is hoping to get out of doing his priming the most difficult and least controllable way possible.

I remember batch priming being intimidating to me as a newbie. Now after I've done it, I can't imagine what I would possibly gain by an alternative method.

A newbie has been taught to fear infection and oxidation and here you are transfering gallons of beer into an open bottle only to immediately move it out of the vessel immediately. That seems, the first time you wrap your mind around it, somehow wrong. You've just scrounged together your first set of equipment and you need yet another piece, a bottling bucker, dedicated *only* to hold the beer for five minutes on bottling day?

For me it was the transfering and siphoning that scared me. My first situation was artificially weird though. I had a fermenter with a spigot but for a bottling bucket I used a large pasta pot. (It was a 2 gallon batch). I transferred and mixed the sugar very easily with the spigot and tubing but now I had to get it into the bottles with a racking cane and tubing. (I hadn't realized then what a fantastic thing a bottling wand is nor did I realize that a bottling wand and tubing can be used in conjunction with a spigot.) I had to start the siphon with gravity, a scary and intemidating pain in the ass. (Now it's just a pain) I had to fill bottles with a tube *spraying* the beer out with the sole control being pinching with a plastic clamp that turned out to be a piece of junk.

Of course the lesson I *should* have learned was get the proper equipment. A bottling wand is worth its weight in gold and bottling bucket with a spigot is nice. (Although without a spigot of you get an siphon *with* bottling wand *and* the clips to make it stable, you'll be fine.)

Anyway, from *this* side, I see that batch priming is *nothing* to be afraid of a the best way to do it. But without proper equipment or fear of the one extra step I can understand the appeal of direct bottle priming.

Also the biggest complaint against bottle priming is the inconsistency. Pouring a teaspoon of sugar into each bottle is ineffecient and inaccurate. However this wouldn't be the case with carb tabs (ludicrously expensive) or sugar cubes which would be utterly consistent. However depending on the type of beer it may be under of over carbing a bit.

The way I see it, sugar cube carbing would save you about 20 minutes of time and make cleaning a bit easier. It'd be hard to argue that those advantages are worth it but... well, there's a certain ingenuity to it that appeals to me and I find myself curious to try it once.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

I think sugar by its nature is anti-bacterial.

If this is true, it means my grandma was right when she would put sugar on my busted lip and say "it keeps the germs off".

I always figured she was just distracting me with something sweet.

 

[evrose]

Whilst Carbonation Drops are relatively cheap, sugar cubes are even cheaper.

Yes, that's my point. And a bag of sugar is cheaper than sugar cubes. Batch priming with sugar is easier, cheaper, and produces better, more consistent results. Carbonation drops have no advantages (that I can think of).

 

[woozy]

I hate the idea of counting off 50 drops and wondering if I missed one, double dropped one, etc.

Um, you put the drops cube in the bottles before filling. You don't double drop because you can see that the bottle already has a drop. Like wise you don't miss any cause you can see that the bottle doesn't have a drop. And you don't have to count. If you have 50 bottles and you fill each bottle that's 50 drops.

Whilst Carbonation Drops are relatively cheap.

Relative to what? Gold? Carbonation Drops are ludicrously expensive. My package of 64 was over 5 bucks which I figure is about 12 dollars a lb. You can get 5 lbs of table sugar for 3 bucks.

 

[woozy]

Yes, that's my point. And a bag of sugar is cheaper than sugar cubes. Batch priming with sugar is easier, cheaper, and produces better, more consistent results. Carbonation drops have no advantages (that I can think of).

Well, it saves a (very simple) step. And it avoids a (very small) risk of oxidation and infection. And it no extra (relatively cheap but not trivially cheap) equipment.

And batch priming is *not* easier. Its difficulty is *extremely* minor but it's not easier. (Except compared to loose table sugar in each bottle. That's messy, irritating, inconsistent, and a real pain. Batch priming is easier than *that*.) And sugar cubes and drops are *very* consistent. (Although drops are ludicrously expensive).

The advantages are just not enough to justify its shortcomings, which are mostly control and proper degree of carbonation for the proper type of beer.

Before I got my bottling bucket (which seemed at the time of batch number 2 when I wasn't sure to what extent I'd persue this hobby, a rather intimidating investment; *what* was I thinking) and before I got the concept of batch priming down and it seemed a scary and complicated procedure (which it isn't) I relied on carb tabbing as a newbie crutch. It's okay for a newbie crutch but it is a newbie crutch.

 

[TheZymurgist]

I remember batch priming being intimidating to me as a newbie. Now after I've done it, I can't imagine what I would possibly gain by an alternative method.

A newbie has been taught to fear infection and oxidation and here you are transfering gallons of beer into an open bottle only to immediately move it out of the vessel immediately. That seems, the first time you wrap your mind around it, somehow wrong. You've just scrounged together your first set of equipment and you need yet another piece, a bottling bucker, dedicated *only* to hold the beer for five minutes on bottling day?

For me it was the transfering and siphoning that scared me. My first situation was artificially weird though. I had a fermenter with a spigot but for a bottling bucket I used a large pasta pot. (It was a 2 gallon batch). I transferred and mixed the sugar very easily with the spigot and tubing but now I had to get it into the bottles with a racking cane and tubing. (I hadn't realized then what a fantastic thing a bottling wand is nor did I realize that a bottling wand and tubing can be used in conjunction with a spigot.) I had to start the siphon with gravity, a scary and intemidating pain in the ass. (Now it's just a pain) I had to fill bottles with a tube *spraying* the beer out with the sole control being pinching with a plastic clamp that turned out to be a piece of junk.

Of course the lesson I *should* have learned was get the proper equipment. A bottling wand is worth its weight in gold and bottling bucket with a spigot is nice. (Although without a spigot of you get an siphon *with* bottling wand *and* the clips to make it stable, you'll be fine.)

Anyway, from *this* side, I see that batch priming is *nothing* to be afraid of a the best way to do it. But without proper equipment or fear of the one extra step I can understand the appeal of direct bottle priming.

Also the biggest complaint against bottle priming is the inconsistency. Pouring a teaspoon of sugar into each bottle is ineffecient and inaccurate. However this wouldn't be the case with carb tabs (ludicrously expensive) or sugar cubes which would be utterly consistent. However depending on the type of beer it may be under of over carbing a bit.

The way I see it, sugar cube carbing would save you about 20 minutes of time and make cleaning a bit easier. It'd be hard to argue that those advantages are worth it but... well, there's a certain ingenuity to it that appeals to me and I find myself curious to try it once.

I'm not saying it won't work, or that it shouldn't be done, but if it were as intuitive, ingenious, easy, and perfect as you're making it sound, wouldn't it be the chose method? I think, in this case, the fact that most people batch carb and use a bottling bucket is evidence that it is probably proven to be the best method. I know that majority rules doesn't work in every situation, but this is a subject that has been beaten to death.

I do find it odd how fervently you seem to be arguing the point having not tried it. Any time someone posts, you rush in to make your case. How about we hear from someone that actually has experience with carbonating using sugar cubes, or you go out and try it and report your results?

 

[TheZymurgist]

Well, it saves a (very simple) step. And it avoids a (very small) risk of oxidation and infection. And it no extra (relatively cheap but not trivially cheap) equipment.

And batch priming is *not* easier. Its difficulty is *extremely* minor but it's not easier. (Except compared to loose table sugar in each bottle. That's messy, irritating, inconsistent, and a real pain. Batch priming is easier than *that*.) And sugar cubes and drops are *very* consistent. (Although drops are ludicrously expensive).

The advantages are just not enough to justify its shortcomings, which are mostly control and proper degree of carbonation for the proper type of beer.

Before I got my bottling bucket (which seemed at the time of batch number 2 when I wasn't sure to what extent I'd persue this hobby, a rather intimidating investment; *what* was I thinking) and before I got the concept of batch priming down and it seemed a scary and complicated procedure (which it isn't) I relied on carb tabbing as a newbie crutch. It's okay for a newbie crutch but it is a newbie crutch.

The way I see it, bottling from a container that has a spigot is far easier than using a racking cane with a wand attached. With the racking cane method, you're most likely either a) bottling from primary, which means you have to worry about trub, or b) bottling from secondary in which you don't have trub to worry about, but then why wouldn't you just add priming sugar directly to the secondary and not worry about the cubes? I understand the use of cubes if you want to bottle without racking off the trub. But I really don't see why anyone would go to the trouble to do this when there are clear advantages to using a bottling bucket, and the any risks involved are minimal, to the point of being almost non-existent if you follow good, easy, sanitization techniques.

 

[ProfessorWoland]

Any reason you're not batch priming? Are you bottling straight from the primary, or do you have a bottling bucket?

I've only one FV and its easy.

 

[woozy]

I'm not saying it won't work, or that it shouldn't be done,

I kind of got the impression many of the antis were arguing that it wouldn't work and shouldn't be done.

but if it were as intuitive, ingenious, easy, and perfect as you're making it sound, wouldn't it be the chose method?

I don't think it's "perfect". I think it's got the same control and quality problems of carb tab carbing which is, by consensus, a less preferred method of batching.

"Ingenious" is an aesthetic statement. Clever and imaginative solutions appeal to me. Thats all. Haven't you ever wondered if you can steam scramble an egg with an espresso maker?

I think, in this case, the fact that most people batch carb and use a bottling bucket is evidence that it is probably proven to be the best method.

Batch carbing *is* the best method. I'm just saying that carb tabbing *works*. And this should work too.

I do find it odd how fervently you seem to be arguing the point having not tried it. Any time someone posts, you rush in to make your case.

I don't listen to myself post so I didn't realize how fervent I sounded. I'm a big proponent of letting individual brewers find their own way and experiment. I'm very empathetic to wanting to try something new or individual that works for one. The user asked if sugar cubing would work. Well, all indications indicate it would. And I'm empathetic to asking a question "I want to try something; will it work" and how discouraging an overwhelming response of "why bother; this way is better; do it my way" can be. The concern of sanitation is simply not an issue. The fact that batch priming is a better method is ... well, not irrelevent exactly as folks should be encouraged to do batch priming ... but a side issue. If a brewer for whatever reason feels wants to bottle prime (or brew small batches, or do HME, or make a BMC clone) I figure as long as there are no gross errors or misconceptions we should allow her or him to.

I'm sorry I sounded so fervent. I *do* like to play devil's advocate. Which I think is sometimes called for. I also have an affinity for the strange and bizarre yet logically sound.

I think I will try sugar cube method but it'll be a while. (My main concern would be weighing the sugar cubes and seeing if the come within a reasonable range for the beer). But like you, I'll continue to batch prime most often. I do think it's a better way; it has better control. (Although cleaning will be easier...)

 

[lohr500]

Hi OP,

For what it's worth and as a complete novice myself (2nd batch just bottled) I mainly used the Coopers Carb drops on my 1st batch ( 1 & 1/2 drops per 500ml bottle), but randomly primed with a sugar cube in 10 of the bottles.
My 1st batch was a Coopers Wheat beer kit with 500g sugar replaced with 500g wheat spraymalt.

I've no idea if sugar cube sugar is different to the sugar used in the carb drops but the bottles primed with the drops have in my opinion got a dryer and more pleasant taste to the beer. They have also carbed up better. Perhaps there is more sugar in 1 & 1/2 carb drops than 1 cube.

But like I say I am a complete novice so don't rely on my thoughts alone !

 

[woozy]

I've only one FV and its easy.

Then do it.

Count out and weigh the sugar cubes. If the total comes out to roughly 1.1 oz (weight) per gallon of beer give or take 15% then you should be fine. (Check a priming sugar calculater for more accurate measures. But use the weight measures and *not* the volumes.)

I strongly do *not* recommend trying to batch prime in the original fermenter with all the trub. (Yuck!)

And a bottling bucket will probably be worth the investment eventually. (Then you won't have to "give or take 15%")

 

[TheZymurgist]

I kind of got the impression many of the antis were arguing that it wouldn't work and shouldn't be done.

I don't think it's "perfect". I think it's got the same control and quality problems of carb tab carbing which is, by consensus, a less preferred method of batching.

"Ingenious" is an aesthetic statement. Clever and imaginative solutions appeal to me. Thats all. Haven't you ever wondered if you can steam scramble an egg with an espresso maker?


Batch carbing *is* the best method. I'm just saying that carb tabbing *works*. And this should work too.


I don't listen to myself post so I didn't realize how fervent I sounded. I'm a big proponent of letting individual brewers find their own way and experiment. I'm very empathetic to wanting to try something new or individual that works for one. The user asked if sugar cubing would work. Well, all indications indicate it would. And I'm empathetic to asking a question "I want to try something; will it work" and how discouraging an overwhelming response of "why bother; this way is better; do it my way" can be. The concern of sanitation is simply not an issue. The fact that batch priming is a better method is ... well, not irrelevent exactly as folks should be encouraged to do batch priming ... but a side issue. If a brewer for whatever reason feels wants to bottle prime (or brew small batches, or do HME, or make a BMC clone) I figure as long as there are no gross errors or misconceptions we should allow her or him to.

I'm sorry I sounded so fervent. I *do* like to play devil's advocate. Which I think is sometimes called for. I also have an affinity for the strange and bizarre yet logically sound.

I think I will try sugar cube method but it'll be a while. (My main concern would be weighing the sugar cubes and seeing if the come within a reasonable range for the beer). But like you, I'll continue to batch prime most often. I do think it's a better way; it has better control. (Although cleaning will be easier...)

Ok, I think we're on the same page now. Clarity before agreement, although it seems we're pretty much in agreement.

OP, another question on your process. Since you have only one fermentation vessel, that means you're bottling using a racking cane, correct? There's certainly nothing wrong with it, but having done both methods (tabs, not sugar cubes), I found it easier to transfer to a bottling bucket, add dissolved sugar, and bottle with the spigot. Clean up is a breeze, just rinsing out the extra bucket, and my carbonation was much more consistent and targeted. Just thought I'd share my experience, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[woozy]

Ok, I think we're on the same page now. Clarity before agreement, although it seems we're pretty much in agreement.

It's more of a philosophy disagreement. I think most people, myself included, tend to get a little smug when we gather a teensy bit of knowledge and are inclined to speak from gospel then address questions and I think we need to watch that. I tend to get a little knee-jerk about it. We have a tendency to dismiss bottle priming as amatuerish or something the "Mr. Beer crowd" would do. But how many of us *really* notice the difference or have really wrestled the argument down and how many just eagerly jumped into our positions because it let us wear grown-up pants. I have an impulse reaction to always play devils advocate because it forces us to examine our assumptions and clarify exactly what it is which each believe and understand. Plus I don't like brow-beating novices. I know none of us do it intentionally (I don't but I do do it; especially when it comes to taste and just how revolting BMC is). But it can really come across that way when you are a beginner.

My desire to be smug vs. my desire to "answer what is asked without judging" came into conflict on a "how do you brew zima" thread. I think Zima's a disgusting and vile concoction for the ignorant and gullible hordes of swine and no-one should brew this when there are so many other *good* things to brew.... but, judge not and the poster had asked for how to brew Zima and that's a legitimate question so I should be fair and see if it can be done ... (ew! ick! why? it's disgusting!... now, now, if the poster wants to brew zima then I should answer how to brew zima and not make discouraging and insulting comments .... which the poster damned well deserves for liking a disgust low-brow bunch exploitive crap like Zima... now, now...)... I did post some instructions and I *tried* to keep my snark out of it. But I'm afraid I came of as somewhat bi-polar. ("Here you go... if you *really* want to ... it should be doable and you'll get, well, *something* ... but *I'll* never do it 'cause it reminds me too much of Zima")

OP, another question on your process. Since you have only one fermentation vessel, that means you're bottling using a racking cane, correct?

I assumed the fermenter had a spigot. Which *does* make bottle prime pretty easy. (And without a spigot pretty hard.)

Going back to the argument of smugness and grown-up pants I use three Mr. Beer LBK (two for fermenting and one for bottling) and, if you are making small batches, they are *freakin' fantastic* for fermenting (unless you are making more than 2 gallons in which case they are utterly useless) despite making me feel like I'm riding a tricycle in the fast lane. Another reason I tend to knee-jerkedly support the bizarre, unpopular, and dis-approved methods; Mr. Beer is universally ridiculed. *I*'d like to ridicule it-- who the hell would buy something called "Mr. Beer"; my sister laughed hysterically when she saw it thinking it was the apex of tacky cheesiness-- but damn if it isn't elegance in functionality when you need some vessel to ferment 2 gallons of beer!

There's certainly nothing wrong with it [racking cane and siphon], but having done both methods (tabs, not sugar cubes), I found it easier to ...

True. Siphoning is a *pain*. I understand an autosiphon makes it easier and I have gotten much better at it over time but it's still a pain.

 

[madman960]

Be careful buying sugar cubes. Some of them come in half teaspoon size. You may have to double to get proper carbonation. Just my $0.02.

Bill

 

[woozy]

Well, I tried sugar cubes. I'll test them on thanksgiving.

First thing... sugar cubes are too big to fit into the neck of the bottles. Had to shove 'em in.

Have to admit, not having to prime was kind of nice. Not a *huge* difference but kind of nice.

 

[madman960]

How did it turn out? Did you use 1 or 2 cubes per bottle?

Bill