Carb with honey?

[jmartie13]

I just got everything ready to bottle a brown ale (2.4 CO2) and I realized I'm about 1/3 of a cup short of corn sugar. I have a bunch of raw honey....has anyone ever used honey to carb? I found a calculator on northern brewers website.....nervous about this though. I assume you would need to heat the honey up to get it to dissolve into the beer? any input would be great! cheers

 

[ColoHox]

Honey works well, and may leave a bit of honey flavor in the finished beer. I made a honey brown using honey to prime and it was great.

Just boil it with your priming sugar when you prepare that solution. As always, be sure to mix the sugar solution into the beer very well without introducing oxygen.

 

[oxonbrew]

I've used honey too, works well. I increase the amount I use (compared to normal sugar) because (I believe) honey has about 30% unfermentable sugars.

I add the honey to some boiling water to dissolve it, then stir it in with teh brew in my bottling bucket.

Good Luck!

 

[Calichusetts]

No need to boil...just get it hot enough to thoroughly dissolve. Used it for about 100 batches.

For a 2.5 standard vol, you want to use 63 grams PER GALLON. Do the math from there to get where you want. If its a really light beer you will get a subtle aroma when cracking it and upfront when smelling. If its a hop or malt bomb, it will cover it up

EDIT: Google "fake honey." There is literally a ton of companies calling garbage honey. Most are filtering the honey too much, others are truly fake, adding sweetners. Use only reputable honey. I think this is the main problem with most people on here saying they don't get honey flavor from honey...its not HONEY!

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/#.Uk1HkT9ybIU

There are a ton of sites that list brands you shouldn't buy and ones that pass.

 

[bhanson]

All good replies. One more note, honey is sometimes a bit slower to lead to full carbonation, in my experience. Just may take a tiny bit of extra patience.

 

[ColoHox]

I've used honey too, works well. I increase the amount I use (compared to normal sugar) because (I believe) honey has about 30% unfermentable sugars.

Honey is 99.9% fermentable, containing mostly fructose and glucose. Some complex sugars and aromatic compounds remain, which can leave a little honey flavor..

 

[oxonbrew]

Thanks for correcting me ColoHox. I've just had a google and see lots of things saying 90-95% fermentable so really as you say. When I look at my brewing software it tells me 76% potential yield, so maybe I've got confused.

Cheers!

 

[Calichusetts]

Honey is 99.9% fermentable, containing mostly fructose and glucose. Some complex sugars and aromatic compounds remain, which can leave a little honey flavor..

Wrong...at best 95% Seriously, look at every reputable source, they will never say 100% or I've never seen it

Beersmith: 90-95% fermentable
BJCP: 80% is fructose/glucose
Palmer: 95% fermentable
National Honey board: 70-78% fructose/glucose

Also, just because something is x% fermentable doesn't always mean it ferments. We wouldn't have posts about stuck fermentations if this was the case and we should all have the same brewhouse efficiency because whatever percent malt is convertable, it would. The condition determine how much of these % ferment out.

 

[ColoHox]

Wrong...at best 95% Seriously, look at every reputable source, they will never say 100% or I've never seen it

Beersmith: 90-95% fermentable
BJCP: 80% is fructose/glucose
Palmer: 95% fermentable
National Honey board: 70-78% fructose/glucose

Also, just because something is x% fermentable doesn't always mean it ferments. We wouldn't have posts about stuck fermentations if this was the case and we should all have 100% brewhouse efficiency because malt is 100% convertible with this mentality. The condition determine how much of these % ferment out.

Sorry to have to go off topic, but...

You are confusing the concentration of sugars in honey with the fermentability. Honey is typically 83 degrees brix, or 83% sugar. Of the 83% sugar, <1% is oligosaccharides such as dextrins, which are non-fermentable. The rest is mostly water, with some acids and vitamins. The 83% sugar is 99.9% fermentable, because it is fructose and glucose like you mentioned.
It is not like you are adding 70-80% fermentable sugar and 20-30% unfermentable sugar. The sugars in honey are ready to go.

Stuck fermentations are not a problem with the honey, it is a problem with the yeast. Malt conversion depends on the efficiency of your process and the starch conversion enzymes, and the typical potential yield for pale base malts is only 80%, not 100%. This is mash efficiency, not brewhouse efficiency, which accounts for volume loss. This is not just a mentality, it is science.

 

[oxonbrew]

Thanks again ColoHox, that's really useful information - I've learnt something new.

Cheers!

 

[Calichusetts]

Sorry to have to go off topic, but...

You are confusing the concentration of sugars in honey with the fermentability. Honey is typically 83 degrees brix, or 83% sugar. Of the 83% sugar, <1% is oligosaccharides such as dextrins, which are non-fermentable. The rest is mostly water, with some acids and vitamins. The 83% sugar is 99.9% fermentable, because it is fructose and glucose like you mentioned.
It is not like you are adding 70-80% fermentable sugar and 20-30% unfermentable sugar. The sugars in honey are ready to go.

Stuck fermentations are not a problem with the honey, it is a problem with the yeast. Malt conversion depends on the efficiency of your process and the starch conversion enzymes, and the typical potential yield for pale base malts is only 80%, not 100%. This is mash efficiency, not brewhouse efficiency, which accounts for volume loss. This is not just a mentality, it is science.

Thanks for the correction. Still, there is no source for 100% fermentability, 95% at most with a given situation. Just like malt, there is science behind honey, and nothing ever states near 100%. Its only 80% simple sugars, not "mostly." Not trying to pick a fight. People trust this site and we must give them correct info. They will parrot anything they here from respectable members. I'm not confusing anything when it literally states that honey is 85-95% fermentable. Where are you getting the 99.9% from? Again, just trying to figure out if I am putting out the wrong information but the only place I have ever found that stat is on a forum, not on any actual article.

Science aside...flavor will remain if given the proper situation. If you add honey during the boil or to the primary, the yeast will destroy it...later on, not so much. Maybe its the difference between the 95% fermentation or the 85% but its there

 

[JoBoo]

Another good substitute is agave nectar. It is actually sweeter than sugar and leaves little to no flavor. Also means you don't have to use as much. Cheers!

 

[ColoHox]

Thanks for the correction. Still, there is no source for 100% fermentability, 95% at most with a given situation. Just like malt, there is science behind honey, and nothing ever states near 100%. Its only 80% simple sugars, not "mostly." Not trying to pick a fight. People trust this site and we must give them correct info. They will parrot anything they here from respectable members. I'm not confusing anything when it literally states that honey is 85-95% fermentable. Where are you getting the 99.9% from? Again, just trying to figure out if I am putting out the wrong information but the only place I have ever found that stat is on a forum, not on any actual article.

Science aside...flavor will remain if given the proper situation. If you add honey during the boil or to the primary, the yeast will destroy it...later on, not so much. Maybe its the difference between the 95% fermentation or the 85% but its there

No fights here, we are probably just arguing semantics. "Mostly" referred to the water content, but anyway. Honey as a solution is ~80% fermentable sugar and ~20% water. The constituent sugars are in the same form as when one inverts table sugar with acid hydrolysis. Most priming calculators assume complete fermentability of invert sugar, priming sugar (dextrose monohydrate, which is about 9% water), etc. One must account for the water already in solution when using honey as a priming sugar. If you are saying only ~85% of the honey, by weight perhaps, is actually fermented, then I agree, because the rest is water.

The original post I replied to suggested honey contained ~30% unfermentable sugars. I was refuting that claim by saying that all the sugar in honey is fully fermentable.