Caraway seeds in rye brown ale... Anyone ever do it? Best practices and techniques

[Coastalbrew]

I'm planning on brewing a rye brown ale for my next batch and was thinking that adding some Caraway seeds to it might spice things up a bit. I've never used spices in a beer before and am looking for any advice or suggestions folks might have. I'm wondering if I should reduce the amount of chocolate malt or maybe switch to pale chocolate instead. Also considering splitting the batch into 2 fermenters to have 1 control batch and 1 with the Caraway seeds to compare results side by side. Thoughts?

The recipe is:

5.5 G batch, mash @ 152* for 60 min
Grains
6.5# 2 row
3# rye malt
2# biscuit
.75# chocolate malt 350L
.5# C60
Hops
.75 oz Columbus @60
.25 oz Columbus @ 20
1 oz Willamette @ 5
Yeast
Wlp007 dry English ale
Ferment @ 67*

Cheers!

 

[Miraculix]

Hi!

I think this might actually be a great idea.

But I think it doesn't fit with chocolate malt, I would use roast barley instead, and maybe bring the amount down to 3-4%.

There are two ways you could go, either throw it in at the end of the boil, let's say for the last five to ten minutes, or you could make a tincture with vodka and dose it after fermentation finished.

If you go with the boil, try making a tea with the caraway first. Boil two liters of water for ten minutes and look if you can hit the right taste. Play around with the amount of caraway. When you nailed the taste, you can scale it up from there and you have a good starting point regarding the amount of caraway you need to use.

If you made a tincture, you can just pour yourself a (flat) pint of beer after fermentation finished, and dose it with the tincture till it tastes right. You can scale the amount of tincture up from there.

I would go with the tea and add to boil method, as I don't want vodka in my beer, but both ways are certainly possible.

 

[mongoose33]

That's a tasty-looking recipe. I do a rye ale, never thought about including caraway seeds, which I like in rye bread.

 

[Coastalbrew]

That's a tasty-looking recipe. I do a rye ale, never thought about including caraway seeds, which I like in rye bread.

It makes a very tasty beer. The last time I made it, I added an extra .5# of chocolate malt and it came out with really rich roasted flavor almost like a porter.

 

[Miraculix]

It makes a very tasty beer. The last time I made it, I added an extra .5# of chocolate malt and it came out with really rich roasted flavor almost like a porter.

Basically, it is almost a porter

 

[lump42]

If you add it to the boil, aim on the lower side. You can up the character with a alcohol tincture at bottling. I find that I get a little different character from spice when put in the boil compared to alcohol tinctures. It's subtle and I likely wouldn't pick the difference blind.

Also, If you split the batch and you over do it in the boil, the other batch can be used to blend the flavor back down.

 

[Miraculix]

If you add it to the boil, aim on the lower side. You can up the character with a alcohol tincture at bottling. I find that I get a little different character from spice when put in the boil compared to alcohol tinctures. It's subtle and I likely wouldn't pick the difference blind.

Also, If you split the batch and you over do it in the boil, the other batch can be used to blend the flavor back down.

I second that!

Plus the tea method to get an idea of the right amount before brewing.

 

[Coastalbrew]

Thanks for the feedback fellas. S

I did some experimenting this morning. The Caraway seeds I have are really old and the flavor is very weak. I'll definitely get fresh before trying it in the beer. I put a teaspoon or so on a piece of dark chocolate and ate that. It was really good. The spice of the Caraway went really nice with the sweet richness of the chocolate. This reassured me that I think the chocolate malt will be fine.

Then I made a cup of tea and steeped some seeds in the hot water. Let them go for about 10 minutes tasting periodically. Need to experiment more with that. Definitely didn't have enough potency. Fresh Caraway will help with that too.

So if I put them in the boil, do I just add them and leave them in through the fermentation, or do I put them in a hop bag and take them out after a period of time?

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for the feedback fellas. S

I did some experimenting this morning. The Caraway seeds I have are really old and the flavor is very weak. I'll definitely get fresh before trying it in the beer. I put a teaspoon or so on a piece of dark chocolate and ate that. It was really good. The spice of the Caraway went really nice with the sweet richness of the chocolate. This reassured me that I think the chocolate malt will be fine.

Then I made a cup of tea and steeped some seeds in the hot water. Let them go for about 10 minutes tasting periodically. Need to experiment more with that. Definitely didn't have enough potency. Fresh Caraway will help with that too.

So if I put them in the boil, do I just add them and leave them in through the fermentation, or do I put them in a hop bag and take them out after a period of time?

Personally, for me chocolate malt has nothing to do with chocolate flavour. It has only the same colour as chocolate, but that's about it. Try eating the caraway with a beer heavy with chocolate malt instead.

 

[lump42]

Thanks for the feedback fellas. S

I did some experimenting this morning. The Caraway seeds I have are really old and the flavor is very weak. I'll definitely get fresh before trying it in the beer. I put a teaspoon or so on a piece of dark chocolate and ate that. It was really good. The spice of the Caraway went really nice with the sweet richness of the chocolate. This reassured me that I think the chocolate malt will be fine.

Then I made a cup of tea and steeped some seeds in the hot water. Let them go for about 10 minutes tasting periodically. Need to experiment more with that. Definitely didn't have enough potency. Fresh Caraway will help with that too.

So if I put them in the boil, do I just add them and leave them in through the fermentation, or do I put them in a hop bag and take them out after a period of time?

Two things
1. I would lightly crack or crush the seeds with a rolling pin or big spoon. You'll get better flavor extraction.
2. If you put them in the boil, I'd leave them behind with the hops and trub. If you throw all of that in to the fermentor than I would bag them first. Either way I would remove them after the boil so you control the intensity of the flavor.

 

[Coastalbrew]

@Miraculix I'll try didn't a beer with the seeds. That's a good idea, thanks!

@lump42 could I throw them in with the mash and then take them out with the rest of the grain? Kind of the same concept as mash hopping.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Ever tried Helbing liqueur? Its a schnapps made from caraway with a fantastic flavor that really captures the aroma and flavor of it. I might try it in a rye beer, thanks for the idea!

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix I'll try didn't a beer with the seeds. That's a good idea, thanks!

@lump42 could I throw them in with the mash and then take them out with the rest of the grain? Kind of the same concept as mash hopping.

No, don't throw it into the mash. The lower temperature will make it really hard to control and hit the flavour you are after. Boil or tincture it is.

 

[lump42]

No, don't throw it into the mash. The lower temperature will make it really hard to control and hit the flavour you are after. Boil or tincture it is.

Agreed.

 

[Coastalbrew]

I did the tea again this morning. Crushed the seeds this time and steeped 2 tsp for 15 min in a cup and a half of water. It gave a very pleasant Caraway aroma and nice flavor. I think I'm on the right track. Does anyone have any dosing amount suggestions?

 

[Coastalbrew]

Eureka! I was flipping through my copy of the "Home brew recipe Bible" last night and came across the rye IPA recipe. In the recipe options Colby discusses adding Caraway seeds to rye beers of all types. He suggests adding .5 - .75 oz Caraway in the last couple of minutes of the boil or at flame out.

So here goes. I'll brew after Thanksgiving and let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the advice. Cheers!

 

[Coastalbrew]

I finally got to Brew today. It was a long brew day. Still trying to get used to my new system and I did mineral additions to my water for the first time too. I added .5 oz of crushed Caraway seeds at flame out in a hop bag and steeped then for 15 minutes in the wort before chilling. The hydrometer sample tasted very promising. Here's hoping for a good fermentation.

Cheers!

EDIT: I checked the fermenter after I made this post and it was already bubbling. Yeah baby! Less than 5 hours since pitch and it's going! I love it when the magic happens.

 

[Coastalbrew]

Fermentation finished in 3 days. Planning to bottle sometime next week and hopefully be enjoying these babies for new year's!

Cheers!

 

[Coastalbrew]

Update: bottled today, it's amazing! I can't wait for it to carbonate and be ready to drink. I drank the entire hydrometer sample and wished I had more.

It finished out at fg 1.023 which put the abv at 4.8%. The fg was higher than expected and put the attenuation at only 60%, but the beer tastes very balanced with just a slight sweetness. It has wonderful roasty, coffee, earthy aromas and flavors with a very pleasant aroma and flavor of Caraway that compliments the other aromas and flavors very well. It was a little reminiscent of the flavors of pumpernickel bread, but richer with a hint of chocolate and coffee flavor. I think the Caraway seeds added a slight amount of bitterness that plays well with the hops and other flavors. Mouth feel is very smooth and full, rich and slightly creamy, but with a dry finish that prevents the creaminess from lingering on the tongue and leaves you wanting another sip. The last time I brewed this beer it really started to shine after about a month in the bottle, so I can't wait to see how this batch ages, if it makes it that long, that is.

I think it will be best served at cask temps. I tried the sample at room temp and after several hours in the fridge, and I think the warmer sample tasted better over all. In the warmer sample flavors seemed more unified and better blended.

This is definitely going to be a house beer from now on!

Cheers!

 

[Coastalbrew]

Post bottling update: just cracked the first bottle of the batch and it tastes amazing! It is smooth, roasty, slightly sweet but also dry and just a touch of spicy bitterness in the finish. Full, rich, creamy mouth feel. Aroma is very similar to a mild pumpernickel bread. The Caraway seeds come through in the aroma and give a nice earthy spicy note that compliments the roasty chocolaty aromas in the beer. Super easy drinking and delicious.

This will absolutely be a house beer from now on!

Cheers!