Can't get Homebrew to feel like like I want...

[Yooper]

8.80 lb 2-Row
0.84 lb Caramel 40
0.42 Chocolate
0.42 Brown

I mashed at 152 for 1 hour. with a Fuggle addition 1.5 oz at 60 and a .5 oz at 10 minutes for 28 ibu. I used Irish Moss. The beer fermented at 68 with wyeast 1028 London Ale. I bottled at the same temp with 3.5 oz of priming sugar.

That's a pretty low mash temp if you want a dextrinous mouthfeel. I'd suggest double checking your thermometer, and making sure that at 152, it's really 152. If you mashed at 149 or 150 instead, you'd get a pretty thin beer.

 

[0110x011]

I'd agree that your mash temp seems low. I'd try mashing at 156 for an hour and see how that does for you.

 

[ghpeel]

A brown ale with less than a pound of crystal mashed at 152F sounds like it would come out a little dry to me. Lots of dark-roasted grains can add an astringency sometimes that makes a beer come across as dry. I've actually given up making darker beers (which i don't enjoy anyway, so no big loss) because they tend to come out this way.

Re-do that brown, with 1.25lbs of crystal, a little less chocolate, and mash at 155F. After an hour max, make sure to do a proper mash out (165F-170F, but not higher) and get the first runnings to boil as quickly as possible.

When making full bodied beer, make sure you stop the enzymatic activity as quickly as possible after starch conversion. Failing that, add .25-.5 lbs of Malto Dextrine powder to the finished beer.

 

[hammacks]

Lots of dark-roasted grains can add an astringency sometimes that makes a beer come across as dry....

When making full bodied beer, make sure you stop the enzymatic activity as quickly as possible after starch conversion.

Some excellent points here. Things I've had problems with in the past. Higher mash temps are also great suggestions, as well as ingredient considerations.

What I've found - you often have to tailor your brewing to what you want to improve. There are so many variables from one homebrewer to the next that someones great recipe may not work for you as is.

 

[blackstrat5]

For stopping the conversion as quickly as possible, is sparging at 170 the method to doing that? Also, as soon as possible after starch conversion, if I'm mashing for an hour should I be monitoring the mash by taking samples at regular intervals and performing a conversion test?

 

[gallagherman]

What yeast strains are you using? are you getting very good attenuation? If your beers finish really low and have fewer residual sugars, very dry beers can have a lighter mouthfeel.

 

[blackstrat5]

For the Brown Ale wyeast 1028 London Ale. 1.050 to 1.015

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

8.80 lb 2-Row
0.84 lb Caramel 40
0.42 Chocolate
0.42 Brown

I mashed at 152 for 1 hour. with a Fuggle addition 1.5 oz at 60 and a .5 oz at 10 minutes for 28 ibu. I used Irish Moss. The beer fermented at 68 with wyeast 1028 London Ale. I bottled at the same temp with 3.5 oz of priming sugar.

Do you recall what your FG was? That could say alot about what is happening.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

For the Brown Ale wyeast 1028 London Ale. 1.050 to 1.015

beat me to it

That looks pretty good to me though. I would agree with making sure your Therm & Hydro are calibrated and I think you probably need a little more carbonation in your beer. Try 4oz of priming sugar next time you bottle and see what that does for you.

 

[blackstrat5]

Psychic!!

 

[blackstrat5]

Can someone explain the process of stopping conversion and when to stop conversion?

 

[bmbigda]

I battled this same issue for a while. Started out with the same theories as everyone is bringing up...mash temp, carbonation, water chem, and lack of carapils/dextrine.

In my case, I first eliminated water chem by nagging my towns Water Department for a report. Next starting upping the Dextrine and was still seeing issues. Thermometers calibrated, still watery.

The suspect wound up being a lack of patience (an impatient homebrewer?). Apparently beer can seem carbonated but actually is not quite there yet. In my experience, that "not quite carbonated" phase is what I was calling watery beer. Just because your pouring a head doesn't mean the CO2 has fully dissolved. It is truly amazing what carbonation can do to a beer. Once I started dialing up the PSI on my regulators a little higher, I've never seen a watery beer. If it's priming sugar either wait longer or use more.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

The suspect wound up being a lack of patience (an impatient homebrewer?). Apparently beer can seem carbonated but actually is not quite there yet. In my experience, that "not quite carbonated" phase is what I was calling watery beer. Just because your pouring a head doesn't mean the CO2 has fully dissolved. It is truly amazing what carbonation can do to a beer. Once I started dialing up the PSI on my regulators a little higher, I've never seen a watery beer. If it's priming sugar either wait longer or use more.

This is very true, if you brew a standard gravity beer (~1.050) and are bottle conditioning, you should try one beer a week and see how it changes. After 1 week in the bottle, it will have some carbonation and will pour with a nice head, but it will still taste watery and thin. At 2 weeks in the bottle mouthfeel will start to get a lot better. At 3 weeks things will usually be perfect (although not always, sometimes it takes longer.)

 

[bmbigda]

This is very true, if you brew a standard gravity beer (~1.050) and are bottle conditioning, you should try one beer a week and see how it changes. After 1 week in the bottle, it will have some carbonation and will pour with a nice head, but it will still taste watery and thin. At 2 weeks in the bottle mouthfeel will start to get a lot better. At 3 weeks things will usually be perfect (although not always, sometimes it takes longer.)

That's a good point about standard gravity beers. They can often times be trickier because they don't mask the little nuances that a high gravity beer would.

Do your high gravity batches have similar issues?

 

[SnallygasterBrewery]

+1 to the points about carbonation. Think about what it feels like to drink a flat soda compared to a fresh one. Go by the numbers to reach what level of carbonation you want and then just wait it out for a couple of weeks. If the batch is bottled (and I think someone made this suggestion, too) try a couple at the end of each week -- one that's been chilled for a day or two and one that went into the fridge just a few hours before hand. You'd be amazed to notice the difference between the two. CO2 takes some time to dissolve into the liquid. Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I always liked having reassurance when I was trying to troubleshoot something.

 

[blackstrat5]

I'll try that too, I know the higher gravity 1.072 Pumpkin I did had the same problem, but I think I added too little priming sugar anyway, it's lacking carbonation altogether. Well, I guess I should have used more priming sugar or fresh yeast at bottling (it was in the secondary for about a month).

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Try mashing a few degrees higher (154-156) and/or add some carapils. That should take care of the watery problem.

 

[blackstrat5]

I wish I had a kegorator, I could try the carbing through pressure. But for now I'm stuck with the bottles....

I've been using the Beeralchemy calculation for the amount of priming sugar needed. It's been yielding this result for awhile, do you recommend increasing the amount of priming sugar, or should I use some other method of calculation.

 

[bendavanza]

For the bottling, I'd let them sit at room temp for at least 3 weeks and in the fridge for a few days or more if you really want that carbonation to be spot on.
It seems these days most big city municipal water systems use chloramines. I used to taste something I did not like in my homebrew until I started using cambden tablets. I use a charcoal filter and the tabs in the mash (I think 1/2 tab for strike and 1/2 for sparge) and it cleaned up the flavors immensely.

 

[BrokenDog]

It sounds to me like your mash temp could be the problem, I usually run my mash at 155 for 60 minutes with a brown to get more body out of it. Some people might say that is kind of high, but for brown ales I found it has worked out well for the 4 times I have brewed my recipe. Also, lossing a few degrees in an hour of mashing could have an effect, you may want to look into a better MT or try preheating it before you add your mash.

 

[nyer]

I have the same problem and I think it could be the mash temp as well. I found that both of my coolers drop too much temp so if I start a mash at 152 it ends at around 148 after an hour. I brewed a holiday ale sunday and I intentionally started the mash 2 degrees higher and then added some hot water at 30 minutes to bump it back up. I'm hoping I will notice a difference and find out if the temps are really causing this. I tried buying a new (better) cooler but there are none to be found with winter approaching.

 

[blackstrat5]

What would you consider safe in regards to amount of primin sugar used at bottling? I use a program to calculate the amount needed, should I add more to see if this is a carbonation problem?

I have bottles from three different batches starting back in september. They all have had at least three weeks or more to carbonate and some of the bottles I've tried have spend a couple of weeks in the fridge too. Just thought I'd try and rule out if it's a lack of carbonation, or that the liquid itself isn't absorbing the proper amount of CO2

 

[AviatorTroy]

Hey blackstrat5, glad you started this great thread. Id guess I'm at about the same experience level (30 or so AG batches) and Ive been refining my processes but Ive also had some batches come out with the same problem, i.e., they are damn good beers except for the thin lack of "mouthfeel".

I've tried Carapils, Carafoam, mashing higher, mashing longer, shorter, longer boils, everything. In the end, I think it's always a combination of these things. (I also suspect my local water supply is not that great.)

Ive been mashing at 156-158 lately and that has helped. Also, the last couple batches I have done "brew in the bag" so I can have direct heat under my mash, and pinpoint accuracy with the heat. The other thing that has helped is a good sharp mashout, getting the mash temp up to 170 or so for about ten minutes.

I am in every since of the word a fairly inexperienced amateur, but maybe this helps.

 

[blackstrat5]

That does help..It's reassuring. I only have 5 AG batches under my belt so am far more inexperienced. Hopefully, I'll find my problem. I'll try the higher mash temps, perfecting carbonation (still unsure how high I can bump the priming sugar safely without creating bottle bombs). But as far as mashout, what's the best way to bring the temp to 170? Should I use sparge water and add it to the mash to bring the temp up? Or simply retrieve the 1st runnings then sparge at 170?

 

[Frodo]

That does help..It's reassuring. I only have 5 AG batches under my belt so am far more inexperienced. Hopefully, I'll find my problem. I'll try the higher mash temps, perfecting carbonation (still unsure how high I can bump the priming sugar safely without creating bottle bombs). But as far as mashout, what's the best way to bring the temp to 170? Should I use sparge water and add it to the mash to bring the temp up? Or simply retrieve the 1st runnings then sparge at 170?

I can't help with the bottle bomb question, but I mash out by adding water (seems like usually around 1.5 to 2 gal or so at 200F for a 5 gal batch with "normal" gravity but it depends - I use Beersmith to give me that volume and temp) to the mash before retrieving the 1st runnings. I also fly sparge though, but I don't think that would matter either way. If you're batch sparging you'd decrease your sparge amount by the amount you add for your mash out.

 

[AviatorTroy]

If you're batch sparging you'd decrease your sparge amount by the amount you add for your mash out.

Yeah, this is one way I do it. You are just adding one more step to your infusions, with Beertools I use it to figure the minimum amount I can add to get it up to that temp (at almost boiling, I shoot for 200).

Or, like I mentioned, lately I've been playing with the direct heat, brew in the bag, which is especially helpful if you want to do a multiple step mash. I've not noticed an efficiancy reduction using this method but I get a great crush and I stir the hell out of everything.

 

[Layne]

I think I need to find another experienced homebrewer around here, take them the beer and see if they can help me trouble shoot.

Thats a great idea.
I can't explain tastes/feel either, but I bring some to my HB club, and get a round of opinions.

 

[blackstrat5]

Hopefully ill get a chance to stop by MD brew day...lets hope finals give me some time..

Ill try and up my priming sugar slightly today when I bottle my second attempt at a brown ale.

 

[Chesterbelloc]

****sanitation is a precedence that I assume is taken care of****

1. Pitch the appropriate amount of healthy yeast, from a homebrew perspective if you are using liquid or washed yeast, this often means using a very large starter.

2. Pitch the yeast cool and maintain the temp of fermentation at the proper temperature

3. use plenty of O2 and nutrient

4. use a fining agent, personally I am in love with gelatin in the keg and irish moss in the boil.

5. use the freshest hops, malt you can ( maybe this should be #1?)

6. calibrate your thermometer and adjust your mash temps based on yeast strain being used....WLP001, Pacman etc..etc.... if you mash low you will have a very dry beer.....

7. Use a hydrometer and keep records.

 

[blackstrat5]

So, I had some people taste my beer yesterday. Their vocabulary for this homebrew taste I have a gripe with was "watered down". I had this problem with extract brews as well, so I'm trying to eliminate water profile, which I think I have. But I was wondering what are the effects of over/under apparent attenuation?