Can you just add more yeast?

[sirsethro]

so me and 3 friends decided we wanted to start doing our own homebrewed cider for various reasons.

So we go to a shop buy all your necessary equipment, upon the advisement of one of the friends who has allegedly done this before in college.

So we've got two 6.5 gallon carbouys. we rinsed them out and followed the instructions on our Five Star - Star San sanitizer

We bought 12 gallons of apple juice from Trader Joes, making sure it had no preservatives in it.

We bought 6 pounds of brown sugar for one batch and 6 pounds of normal white baking sugar for the other batch. (1 pound per gallon of juice)

We threw in various ammounts of cinnoman, cloves, and nutmeg into each bottle

The alleged expert claimed that there was no need to follow the instructions on the yeast (which came in tubes that I kept in my fridge) so we just threw it in, cold, closed off the carboys with the airlocks, and let the fermenting begin.


Nothing is happening...imagine that.

So basically, the stuff has just been sitting in my garage, with nothing going on for about 2 weeks now. The bottles are supposedly air tight, so nothing can get in.

My question is can we just go buy new yeast to throw in the existing batches, and follow the instructions this time? Will this work? Or do we need to scrap the whole thing and start over? If so, any suggestions on how ot make sure it works this time? the holidays are closing in and we need to be drunk and merry!


Let me know,
sirsethro

 

[Robotronik]

Okay im the "expert"

The yeast we used was
WLP530 Abbey Ale Yeast, the pitchable type

We were using a garden hose for rinsing.

He also forgot to mention there ARE airlocks on both carbouys

Our cleaning method was as follows:
Pour in 1ounce sanitizer and fill with water, pour out on remaning equipment (funnel, airlocks, etc)
Rinse throughly

There was also no pressure released when we broke the vial seal. Like opening an old, flat, bottle of soda so i suspect the yeast were dead.

 

[EvilTOJ]

If nothing is happening at all, then the yeast is most likely dead. Also, just pitching the yeast right into the must is perfectly acceptable.

Double check to make sure that there's actually no preservatives in the apple juice, otherwise it won't matter how much you pitch, it's just going to not go anywhere.

What about trying some dry yeasts instead? Two packets in each carboy should kick it off like gangbusters.

 

[david_42]

Check the gravity. If it isn't finished, pitch some dried yeast. Abbey ale yeast is wasted on cider.

Next time, ferment the juice, then add the sugar.

 

[sirsethro]

awesome guys. thanks for the tips. We used the abbey ale yeast on reccomendation from some random guy we met at the homebrew equipment store.

the apple juice definitaly has no preservatives in it. all 12 bottles are sitting in my closet for when the brew is done, so I double checked.

We're going to try some of the dry yeast, and we'll post back our progress.

 

[alexs]

I also have my very first batch of cider going. I have an apple tree so I figured what better way to to use them. I have had problems getting mine going as well, and from what I understand talking to other people who make wine (process is pretty much the same), there are two things that will prevent the fermentation from taking off. One is too much SO2, used to kill or supprss existing bad yeasts and bacteria. The other is the proper way to add the yeast. Those who say that simply dumping the yeast on top may be correct, but to ensure a higher probability that it will take off, make a yeast starter. In a pitcher or something, blend the dry yeast with 1 cup hot water per instructions on the packet. It will take off by itself in the water. When that happens, slowly begin to add some must (the apple juice in this case). Add half cup of must, let sit for a few hours, add a cup of must, let sit for a few more, etc. then add the contents of the pitcher to the carbouy or jug, making sure the temperatures of each are the same. Yeast is very sensitive to its environment and may go into shock, apparently, when it doesnt like its new surroundings. Another things to consider as well is that fermentation starts areobically, meaning it requires some amount of oxygen. So stirring up the mix before putting the yeast. Once fermentation takes off, then you can cap the jug and put the airlock on. My own batch eventually took off, but I have no idea what it is doing, making hard cider, or something really nasty.

 

[Robotronik]

We added 4 packets of dry yeast, and yeast nutrient, 2 days ago to each of the carbouys. One carbouy is bubbling away, while the other is doing nothing. I dont know what the deal with the second one is.

 

[sirsethro]

Update. While hte first carboy is definitaly going crazy (my whole garage smells like a brewery), the 2nd was definitaly taking its sweet time. But I went to check on them this morning and noticed a few bubbles going through the 2nd carbouy's airlock, and some light froth forming on the top surface of the liquid contents.

Hopefully this guy was just a slow starter and will take off. I think the 2nd carbouy was the batch that had brown sugar in it, instead of white sugar, so perhaps that is also one of the issues with the slow start.

 

[Spyk'd]

Ok, two quick items:

First, you don't rinse Star San, which is a 'no rinse' sanitizer.

Second, with that much sugar added, you'll barely have time for the cider to be drinkable by the 'holidays' depending on which holidays you were talking about and how discerning your tastes are.


As a side note, a yeast starter or dumping onto a yeast cake would have helped. That's alot of sugar to deal with.


Thanks!

 

[Robotronik]

Second, with that much sugar added, you'll barely have time for the cider to be drinkable by the 'holidays' depending on which holidays you were talking about and how discerning your tastes are.

As a side note, a yeast starter or dumping onto a yeast cake would have helped. That's alot of sugar to deal with.

That brings us to our second issue. We really want this to be done by haloween. What can we do to kill off the yeast?

I was thinking of racking the two carbouys into our 1gal glass jugs left over from the apple juice we used, and putting a cork and airlock on each one, and just leave it 'till all the sugar is used and the yeast falls out.

Another idea: I have a large freezer. Would placing the carbouys in there overnight be an effective way of killing off the yeast?

Third. Instead of the above techniques, is there something we can add to the carbouys to kill off the yeast that won't drastically change the taste?

 

[Spyk'd]

Honestly, I'd brew a quick beer to be ready for Halloween, like a Hefe or Pale Ale and leave the cider for New Year's Eve, it should be perfect for that holiday. Strong and "gentler sex" friendly.

The problem, as I see it, is that the cider will need that time for conditioning, not completion of fermentation. That will only take about 5-6 weeks. The sugar will produce a good amount of 'harsh' flavors that will need to mellow so you will be able to actually taste the apple, which I suppose was the point of this exercise?


Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[sirsethro]

hmm, interesting. We hadn't really even thought about taste yet. I think we were more interested in having the highest alcohol content possible for our Halloween festivities.

thanks for all the advice.

Perhaps we'll go buy a 5 gal carbouy and make some beer for Halloween instead. Man this hobby is expensive

 

[Walker]

hmm, interesting. We hadn't really even thought about taste yet. I think we were more interested in having the highest alcohol content possible for our Halloween festivities.

Hell, if that's your goal, just get a bottle of grain alcohol and dump it into apple cider. Much cheaper and easier.

-walker

 

[Robotronik]

The problem, as I see it, is that the cider will need that time for conditioning, not completion of fermentation. That will only take about 5-6 weeks. The sugar will produce a good amount of 'harsh' flavors that will need to mellow so you will be able to actually taste the apple, which I suppose was the point of this exercise?

How much will isinglass help out with with dropping out the harsh flavors?

The current plan we have is:
Wait another week or two for more fermentation
Drop in a crushed campden tablet to kill yeast
Wait a few days
Put in isinglass
Wait approx 2-3 weeks
Wait till the day before haloween, and put in our 1gal jugs

Will this allow for a delicious flavor?