Can you condition in the fermentor?

[Grossy]

I want to try and skip the racking from fermentor to keg step.

This is a theoretical concept I am kicking around. The small details can wait for later.

Remove the spear from a fully functional sanke keg.
Place 10 gallons of wort into the sanke keg.
Hook up a blow off tube.

A 15 gallon sanke keg would provide 5 gallons of head space.

After three weeks fermenting remove the blow off tube, put the spear back in and seal up the keg, then the following:

1. chill the keg/fermentor to 35 degrees,
2. pressurize to 12PSI from a CO2 tank,
3. 3 weeks later hook up to a tap,
4. run tap until clear,
5. drink right out of the primary and enjoy

Dropping the temperature to 35 degrees sends the yeast in the yeast cake into hibernation. No Autolysis???

I'm thinking of a NEW idea here.

The benefits to this, is that if would allow you to skip one step in the brewing process: racking to the keg.

Looking for reasons why this would work or not work.

 

[Jsbeckton]

I wouldn't want to leave the beer on the yeast cake permently, especially if not using a secondary, but thats me.

Also, are you talking about keeping it at 35F? If so it will condition a lot slower. I like to cold crash after fermentation is complete to drop out and remaining yeast, then rack to keg, pressurize a bit, then let it condition at about 60F (basement) for 2-4 weeks before putting in keezer and finishing carbing over another week or two.

 

[Grossy]

I wouldn't want to leave the beer on the yeast cake permently, especially if not using a secondary, but thats me.

Also, are you talking about keeping it at 35F? If so it will condition a lot slower. I like to cold crash after fermentation is complete to drop out and remaining yeast, then rack to keg, pressurize a bit, then let it condition at about 60F (basement) for 2-4 weeks before putting in keezer and finishing carbing over another week or two.

I never use a secondary, I usually primary anywhere between 3 weeks to 2 months.

I'm talking about sealing up the primary to hold pressure, hooking the primary up to my CO2 canister and carbing it up at about 12PSI. Then hooking it up to my tap and drinking right out of the primary. No transfer to kegs.

No Autolysis, because at 35 degrees the yeast dropped into hibernation.

Why would that be a problem? I'm thinking of a NEW idea here.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would think you would want to shorten the keg spear to prevent rousing the yeast cake.

 

[kombat]

No Autolysis, because at 35 degrees the yeast dropped into hibernation.

You've said that twice now, but it doesn't make any sense. Autolysis doesn't have anything to do with whether or not there is active yeast. Autolysis is basically yeast dying and the cell walls rupturing, releasing terrible-tasting off-flavours. Whether the yeast is active or hibernating is irrelevant.

Your proposal would probably work, but my concern would be how much beer you'd have to waste running liquid until it ran clear, since you'd have the entire trub/yeast bed sitting in the bottom of the keg. And there's also the possibility of clogging your pickup tube. Of course, you could clip the pickup tube and make it shorter to keep it above the trub/yeast bed, but then you risk losing out on that last little bit of beer.

In short, it seems like a lazy, potentially wasteful shortcut that might not even work and threatens the long-term flavour stability of your beer by leaving it on the yeast bed for so long.

 

[Grossy]

kombat,

Thanks for the reply, I was looking for some theoretical reason why this would not work. (and for clarifying my understanding of autolysis).

So what you are saying is that the yeast in the yeast cake could start to decay, and burst their cellular walls, releasing flavors that would ruin the beer. I go through 10 gallons in a month or two.

I already thought of shorting the dip tube, and I have some ideas on getting that last bit of beer. I also could weigh the dollar/emotional value of that beer against the small amount of time effort to keg the beer in the normal manner.

I value my time and effort, sometimes there are win-win solutions, I am just trying to discuss a possibility.

 

[homebrewdad]

You won't get autolysis in anything approaching your timeframe. There's no reason why this won't work. You would want to keep the temps at a more normal range while you condition, because once you drop to 35, you basically have what you have (the yeast will be asleep and unable to do anything towards conditioning).

The issue will be the yeast cake, plugging the lines, etc.

 

[Jsbeckton]

If you have the patience to primary for that long what's the big deal with taking 10 minutes to rack?

Whole idea seems like too much risk and/or equipment modification for basically no benefit.

 

[rinhaak]

I think what you're proposing is basically what the OneDerBrew system is all about. Everything happens in one container: there's no racking, secondary, or bottling. Though I've never used it, it can supposedly either self carbonate and be dispensed from the faux-concial, or CO2 can be attached and it can go thru you kegerator.

Check it out and see if it matches what you're looking for.

 

[Jsbeckton]

And you are not sitting on yeast cake, you are sitting on trub.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I value my time and effort, sometimes there are win-win solutions, I am just trying to discuss a possibility.

I feel the same, a while ago I started fermenting in the kettle, and racking straight to a keg. 2 vessels prior to glass, works pretty well IMHO. Chill, aerate and pitch yeast in the kettle, ferment 10-14 days and rack to keg...condition at ambient temps for a week or so and place in the keezer to cold condition.

I have also thought about what you are proposing, but cleaning the fermented keg would add work perhaps, and I think cutting the spear might be needed, so it's not as appealing IMHO.

 

[Grossy]

I feel the same, a while ago I started fermenting in the kettle, and racking straight to a keg. 2 vessels prior to glass, works pretty well IMHO. Chill, aerate and pitch yeast in the kettle, ferment 10-14 days and rack to keg...condition at ambient temps for a week or so and place in the keezer to cold condition.

I have also thought about what you are proposing, but cleaning the fermented keg would add work perhaps, and I think cutting the spear might be needed, so it's not as appealing IMHO.

Your close to what I ultimately have in mind.

Ultimately I want to brew in one kettle, ferment in the kettle, and then carb up and drink from the kettle.

After a brew day, just seal up the kettle, clean the kettle when the beer runs out. Just consider all the steps that were just skipped.

Clean and sanitizing the fermentors,
Racking the wort to the fermentors,
Clean the kettle at the END of the brew day,
Clean and sanitize the auto-siphon,
Clean and sanitize the kegs,
Racking the beer to the kegs,
Clean the auto-siphon again,
Clean the fermentor again,
Clean the kegs again,

One pot brewing is not a new idea, people have been doing it for a very long time. Even now I rack my entire brew into my fermentor. So leaving it in the kettle should make no difference.

The only thing I am trying to work out is how to transport 10 gallons from the burner, to the fermentation chamber. I believe I can make a fermentation chamber/kegerator that would work for two separate 15 gallon kettles.