Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

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So the keys to this beer after tasting side-by-side with AB:

Recipe 845 is damn close....seriously...95+% there:

A few things for future batches....

1) All Chinook, no dry hop. Was at 100 ibus...seems about right...give or take.
2) The key is gypsum...a lot. I used 1tsp for the first go-round and its not close. Go with 1.5-2 tsp.
3) Purge with C02 and keg if you can for freshness. Temp control for yeast.

Follow these 3 things, plus recipe at post 845 and you will get a eerily close approximation of AB.
 
I'm probably going to brew this over the weekend and am considering subbing out CaraPils for .5 lb of the 2-Row for a little extra body and head retention/latticing (I generally throw a half pound of CaraPils in virtually everything I brew). Good/bad idea? Does the CaraAroma provide sufficient head retention by itself?
 
I just listened to the last Arrogant Bastard CYBI podcast on the way to work Friday. They had Mitch Steele on the show. Now it aired in August of 2012. Jamil was 99% sure the malts in AB were Special B and Crystal 150. Tasty was on the fence with crystal 120 if I remember correctly. I know Stone loves to mess with homebrewers when in comes to the AB recipe. To me it sounded like Jamil was on the right track with Special B. To me is sounded like Mitch was agreeing without saying that's the malt.
 
I'm not really into cloning beers, but I really like AB. Would like brew something close using what I have already. (and I have Special B) This looks like a good candidate for a 3 gallon brew.

How different would it be if I substitute Nugget hops for the Chinook? I also have Magnum, but I don't think it has enough flavor and aroma.
 
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I'm not really into cloning beers, but I really like AB. Would like brew something close using what I have already. (and I have Special B) This looks like a good candidate for a 3 gallon brew.

How different would it be if I substitute Nugget hops for the Chinook? I also have Magnum, but I don't think it has enough flavor and aroma.
Use the magnum to bitter and the nugget for flavor/aroma. The special B may add more roastiness than the orig but should taste good. :mug:
 
I have a pound of Chinook I would like to use up. However I will also have a few bottled IPAs on stock that I need to drink quickly before their quality starts to fade. So I was wondering how this beer ages. I'll be doing the non-dry hop version and bottling. Maybe split it 50-50 oaked and normal. Is this a beer that fades fast or it still tastes good up to 6 months after bottling?

Thanks.

;)
 
I'm sure the aroma/flavor hops will fade a bit, but overall the beer should age well as long as you get the ABV up to 8 or higher. :mug:
 
It ages well. A little aging is recommended because it can be harsh at first as the Chinook is a "rough" tasting hop, though I do love it!
OK good to know. Stone have a brewery in Berlin now so I must try it again. Wasn't too impressed first time I tried it. Reminded me of a German dunkel bock hopped with american hops. Maybe it was still at the harsh phase.
 
OK good to know. Stone have a brewery in Berlin now so I must try it again. Wasn't too impressed first time I tried it. Reminded me of a German dunkel bock hopped with american hops. Maybe it was still at the harsh phase.

I had it in Berlin 2018 late Oct. and it was pretty close... The one thing I noticed in all of Stone (Berlin) beers was the grain profile was noticeable, it seemed a bit dryer.
 
Waking up this old thread for research

Then you’ll be glad to know I’ve just mashed in my first attempt.
Using inspiration from redskinnfan

Metric measurements
6kg 2row
600g Caraaroma
150g carapils

25g Chinook 60/30
30g chinook 10
60g chinook 0

Using BRY97 for yeast as it’s my easy as house yeast.
 
Good morning,

What recipe is everyone using for this now, someone mentioned post 845, how do I find that post. Thank you.
 
Then you’ll be glad to know I’ve just mashed in my first attempt.
Using inspiration from redskinnfan

Metric measurements
6kg 2row
600g Caraaroma
150g carapils

25g Chinook 60/30
30g chinook 10
60g chinook 0

Using BRY97 for yeast as it’s my easy as house yeast.

You'll all be pleased to know this picked up a bronze at the NHC here in NZ.
Comments to the contrary of good beer were some minor oxidation and needs fresher hops.

It's a winner. slightly modified from the final recipe from redskinnfan, but much the same overall.
 
You'll all be pleased to know this picked up a bronze at the NHC here in NZ.
Comments to the contrary of good beer were some minor oxidation and needs fresher hops.

It's a winner. slightly modified from the final recipe from redskinnfan, but much the same overall.

Definitely pleased! Congrats! How did you handle your water treatment? Lots of talk about "a lot" of Gypsum, but nothing quantitative.

As of right now, I am planning to add enough Gypsum for 150ppm of sulfate, with a ratio of 3:1 to chloride. Any thoughts?
 
Definitely pleased! Congrats! How did you handle your water treatment? Lots of talk about "a lot" of Gypsum, but nothing quantitative.

As of right now, I am planning to add enough Gypsum for 150ppm of sulfate, with a ratio of 3:1 to chloride. Any thoughts?

given the water here is really plain, not alot of treatment is actually required.
3:1 is what I do on most beers like this.

we have no chlorine, and no other treatments, so filtering isn't required.
i add 1/2 tsp of lactic acid to the aprge water normally.
 
given the water here is really plain, not alot of treatment is actually required.
3:1 is what I do on most beers like this.

we have no chlorine, and no other treatments, so filtering isn't required.
i add 1/2 tsp of lactic acid to the aprge water normally.

Excellent, 3:1 seemed right to me as well. And it sounds like you had success! I appreciate the help.
 
I recently brewed up this clone using post 845 as the basis. There were a few minor mods - my recipe for 6 gal was as follows:
  • Grain:
    • 15 lb Pale Ale Malt
    • 2.25 lb CaraAroma Malt
    • 3 oz Acid Malt
  • Hops:
    • 3 oz Chinook (Leaf, 12.2% AA) at 60 min
    • 1 oz Chinook (Leaf, 12.2% AA) at 20 min
    • 1 oz Chinook (Leaf, 12.2% AA) at 5 min
    • 1 oz Chinook (Leaf, 12.2% AA) at 0 min
  • Yeast:
    • WLP 013 London Ale
  • Water:
    • 10 gal spring water
    • 5 gal tap water
    • 1 tsp CaCl
    • 2 tsp Gypsum
    • 1 tsp Irish Moss
It makes a very delicious beer which fit my recollection of the beer over the many years I've been drinking it (although hadn't been drinking much of it lately).


I decided to try it side by side with the real thing for the sake of science. Was surprised to find the beer was much hoppier than I remembered (flavoring hops and aroma hops to level of a beer like Pliney the Elder). Here were my tasting notes:

View attachment DSC_0749.JPG
  • Aroma:
    • The hop aroma of the real Arrogant Bastard is quite a bit stronger than my beer. It has pine-like and slightly marijuana-like aroma where mine is more grassy and herbal
  • Appearance:
    • Arrogant bastard is maybe a couple shades lighter than mine but I think the color is about right. It pours with much more agressive carbonation level and leaves lacing on the glass
  • Flavor:
    • As with the aroma, the hop flavor for the real Arrogant Bastard is quite a bit more prominent than mine - same pine and marijuana from the aroma. Hops completely dominate the malt here - can't really pick out any malt flavor. It is slightly more bitter in the finish and even less balanced
  • Mouthfeel:
    • The real Arrogant is very slightly lighter bodied than mine and is a bit drier
  • Overall:
    • They are a lot different. Stone doesn't list the hops used in the beer (their flagship) which very well could give them license to have changed the hops over time to adjust to changing palates. I strongly suspect they aren't using Chinook hops in this beer at this point (although it may be that they're using a more potent Chinook harvest than I am). This probably shouldn't be a surprise as I brewed a clone that's over 6 years old at this point. As for the malt, the color is very close - can't speak much to flavor though. Stone's Arrogant Bastard is a really nice beer. I think mine is also nice but it's definitely not a clone here in July 2020.

So, the 2014 clone recipe makes a delicious beer but we're shooting at a moving target, it seems to me, and it's no longer close to the mark. I feel somewhat badly for Stone as they've seen the beer scene kind of evolve past them and now are having to struggle to stay relevant in a world of fickle beer drinkers. This current Arrogant Bastard is wonderful though - I would recommend trying it out.

Click here for my blog if you're interested in reading more about my experience brewing this.
 
@AMessenger, I also miss some of the old Stone brews (like their Pale Ale 1.0).
However, their evolution has been pretty cool to watch. Their Mexican lager and tropic of thunder lagers are things of beauty...and I remember back when they made ales exclusively...
I really wouldn't be surprised if the newer arrogant bastard has benefitted from tuning the water. Their old facilities that green flash and port brewing came to occupy were carbon filter only iirc. It led to high gypsum content accenting the bitterness...
That being said, great post, I'll definitely read your blog when I can, since this brew is on my radar!
 
I recently brewed up this clone using post 845 as the basis. There were a few minor mods - my recipe for 6 gal was as follows:
  • Grain:
    • 15 lb Pale Ale Malt
    • 2.25 lb CaraAroma Malt
    • 3 oz Acid Malt
  • Hops:
    • 3 oz Chinook (Leaf, 12.2% AA) at 60 min
    • 1 oz Chinook (Leaf, 12.2% AA) at 20 min
    • 1 oz Chinook (Leaf, 12.2% AA) at 5 min
    • 1 oz Chinook (Leaf, 12.2% AA) at 0 min
  • Yeast:
    • WLP 013 London Ale
  • Water:
    • 10 gal spring water
    • 5 gal tap water
    • 1 tsp CaCl
    • 2 tsp Gypsum
    • 1 tsp Irish Moss
It makes a very delicious beer which fit my recollection of the beer over the many years I've been drinking it (although hadn't been drinking much of it lately).


I decided to try it side by side with the real thing for the sake of science. Was surprised to find the beer was much hoppier than I remembered (flavoring hops and aroma hops to level of a beer like Pliney the Elder). Here were my tasting notes:

View attachment 691016
  • Aroma:
    • The hop aroma of the real Arrogant Bastard is quite a bit stronger than my beer. It has pine-like and slightly marijuana-like aroma where mine is more grassy and herbal
  • Appearance:
    • Arrogant bastard is maybe a couple shades lighter than mine but I think the color is about right. It pours with much more agressive carbonation level and leaves lacing on the glass
  • Flavor:
    • As with the aroma, the hop flavor for the real Arrogant Bastard is quite a bit more prominent than mine - same pine and marijuana from the aroma. Hops completely dominate the malt here - can't really pick out any malt flavor. It is slightly more bitter in the finish and even less balanced
  • Mouthfeel:
    • The real Arrogant is very slightly lighter bodied than mine and is a bit drier
  • Overall:
    • They are a lot different. Stone doesn't list the hops used in the beer (their flagship) which very well could give them license to have changed the hops over time to adjust to changing palates. I strongly suspect they aren't using Chinook hops in this beer at this point (although it may be that they're using a more potent Chinook harvest than I am). This probably shouldn't be a surprise as I brewed a clone that's over 6 years old at this point. As for the malt, the color is very close - can't speak much to flavor though. Stone's Arrogant Bastard is a really nice beer. I think mine is also nice but it's definitely not a clone here in July 2020.

So, the 2014 clone recipe makes a delicious beer but we're shooting at a moving target, it seems to me, and it's no longer close to the mark. I feel somewhat badly for Stone as they've seen the beer scene kind of evolve past them and now are having to struggle to stay relevant in a world of fickle beer drinkers. This current Arrogant Bastard is wonderful though - I would recommend trying it out.

Click here for my blog if you're interested in reading more about my experience brewing this.

It's definitely an interesting one. we all know that independent breweries will tweak and make minor changes to their recipes over time and batch by batch, sometimes because of harvest quality, AA's etc.
I guess the question is, are Stone too big to play with their recipes batch by batch?

I would suspect that they have adjusted their recipe in someway though, maybe some columbuin there and/or nugget?
Thoase are hops that tende to have those qualities.
 
It's definitely an interesting one. we all know that independent breweries will tweak and make minor changes to their recipes over time and batch by batch, sometimes because of harvest quality, AA's etc.
I guess the question is, are Stone too big to play with their recipes batch by batch?

I would suspect that they have adjusted their recipe in someway though, maybe some columbuin there and/or nugget?
Thoase are hops that tende to have those qualities.



i thought big brewies mixed their batches with a pro taster.....at least that's what i saw in a documentary about budweiser....get like 12 different batches then blend.....
 
I recently brewed an homage to Arrogant Bastard with a few tweaks and I'm really pleased with how it turned out. I use an EBIAB system.

Fargin' Bastage
Size: 6.25 gal
Efficiency: 68.0%
Attenuation: 78.1%

Original Gravity: 1.073
Terminal Gravity: 1.016
Color: 25.38 SRM (Morey)
Alcohol: 7.51%
Bitterness: 99.6 (Rager)

Ingredients:
8.5 lb (44.2%) Pale Ale Malt (American)
8.5 lb (44.2%) Pale Ale Malt (Golden Promise)
1.5 lb (7.8%) CaraAroma
0.75 lb (3.9%) Crystal 150L

28 g (30.8%) Chinook (13.1%) 90.0 m
21 g (23.1%) Chinook (13.1%) 45.0 m
21 g (23.1%) Chinook (13.1%) 15.0 m
21 g (23.1%) Chinook (13.1%) Flameout
1 ea Wyeast WY1098 British Ale (Whitbred Dry)

RO Water (10 gal) 75ppm Calcium - 45ppm Sulfate - 60ppm Chloride
3 g Calcium Chloride
3 g Gypsum
2 g Pickling Lime

Mash: 156°F
Ferment: 68°F

Side by side comparison:
Arrogant Bastard (Left) & Fargin' Bastage (Right)
Color, body, and carbonation are indistinguishable
Arrogant Bastard has slightly better clarity, a tad more fruity esters, and a sharper bitterness
Fargin' Bastage has a richer, more complex malt flavor. I was shooting for a slightly smoother AB and this recipe hit that mark.

Photo Aug 28, 9 37 15 PM.jpg


I think swapping the Golden Promise for more American Pale Malt, shifting the Sulfate to Chloride ratio to favor Sulfate by 2:1, lowering the Mash temperature to 152°F, and bumping the Fermentation temperature to 70°F would get this to a virtually indistinguishable clone.

Here is the Tilt Log:
Fargin' Bastage Ferm Log.png
 
i thought big brewies mixed their batches with a pro taster.....at least that's what i saw in a documentary about budweiser....get like 12 different batches then blend.....

Yes budweiserwill do hat, but guys like stone are smaller, and will adjust batch by batch generally.
 
Side by side comparison:
Arrogant Bastard (Left) & Fargin' Bastage (Right)
Color, body, and carbonation are indistinguishable
Arrogant Bastard has slightly better clarity, a tad more fruity esters, and a sharper bitterness
Fargin' Bastage has a richer, more complex malt flavor. I was shooting for a slightly smoother AB and this recipe hit that mark.

Very interesting that you make so little note of hop aroma and flavor in your comparison. To me those are the ultimate defining character of Arrogant Bastard in its current form and the major difference between this clone recipe and the real thing.

i would say Arrogant bastard is heavier on flavoring hops and is aggressively dry hopped.
 
Very interesting that you make so little note of hop aroma and flavor in your comparison. To me those are the ultimate defining character of Arrogant Bastard in its current form and the major difference between this clone recipe and the real thing.

i would say Arrogant bastard is heavier on flavoring hops and is aggressively dry hopped.

Thanks for pointing that out. I had those in my initial notes but somehow missed adding them here.

The quality of the hop aroma and flavor are nearly indistinguishable with Arrogant Bastard having a slightly brighter and more intense character.
 
What blows my mind so far reading through all this, is very little to no dry hops. I would imagine a 2-3oz of Chinook in the dry hop will up the flavor and aroma.
 
Don't have Chinook, but quite a lot of Columbus and Centennial in the freezer. Therefore I consider making an Arrogant variant with these.

Would you make a single hop with either of these or a Columbus/ Centennial mix?
 
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