Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

[stonebrewer]

I have mashed this at 148 and 156. Think I prefer the 148...but last time I did 156 and really liked that beer. Think it all depends on whether you like a little bit of unfermentables (i.e. residual sweetness) in your beer or not. I generally like beers with a bit of sweetness over something really dry, but don't like a cloying beer at all.

As Frits said, you cannot go wrong with doubling the dextrin and I often ignore the recipe and add more. Body in a strong ale like this is a good thing!

As far as dry hopping, go for it! Because the brewer does or doesn't do things on his scale doesn't mean we can't play around and do it differently to get the same (or dare I say better?) results. That, to me, is the beauty of homebrewing! Just keep good notes and review them over time to dial your beer in to the way YOU want it. Cheers!

Tony

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

I can answer that.
It will be better with a bit more dextrin. I was going to double the dextrin myself, a bit more body really goes well. [...]

Correction:
Quoting and correcting myself here. I just looked over my AB recipe and I did NOT use any Carapils at all, so there is nothing to double. I don't know why Carapils was introduced a few posts up, but it's not in Reddskinnfan's recipe (#845).

Now that little dextrin (8 oz is not much) will get you a bit more body and head retention as well as a slightly higher FG than without (1 point or less). I doubt it will hurt, it may even help the cause. Don't forget, Stone's process is large scale, and ours is nothing like that. I've found many (most) commercial beers having more body and residual mouthfeel than typical homebrew (dryer, thinner). Not sure why that is. My notes say that my AB effort tasted dryer than the 1.018 FG after 2 weeks would suggest. It dropped another 3 points over the following 3-4 weeks.

Awesome thank you. One thing I couldn't seem to find was the mash temp I was thinking 149 because of the extra dextrin malt but I im not sure because I'm still pretty new to all of this. Also another question sorry lol I ended up buying 8 oz of chinook hops, again I forgot to only buy half. So what I was wondering if I should save the extra 4 oz for a dry hop, or use 2 oz for some late additions or a hop stand and the other 2 for a dry hop.

Like Redd's, my mash was 149, I'd stick to that.

Re-calculate hop additions according to your hops' actual AA%. It may be quite different from the recipe's. For example, Redd used 2 different AA% leaf hops. For pellets, use 10% less than calculated for leaf.

Based on those calculations, I would then increase or even double the 15-0 minutes hop additions. At 0', chill the wort to 170-180°F and perform the extended hop stand by recirculating for 30' or stir every few minutes during that time. No splashing!

Whether you still need or want to dry hop later is up to you. Depends on how it comes out. Mine was quite lackluster, so I had nothing to lose, all to gain. I dry hopped in the keg with 1 oz in a weighted roomy muslin bag, agitated during force carbonation. Along with the slighly lowish OG and a bit higher FG, this is how "Sketchy Bastard®" was born.

How do you like the dry hopping? While Stone does not dry hop this beer, it sounds like a great idea for the home brewer. I intend on dry hopping my Double Bastard.

The dry hopping steered it away from cloning the original (see my comments above). It became quite different. A touch of dry hopping (1 oz was definitely too much) may help to correct hop lackluster, but you'd be better off adding to or even doubling the late hop additions, IMO.

 

[erick0619]

Thank you to all of you who responded. I'm glad the extra carapils will actually work in my favor. I've decided on a mash temp of 150, not sure why, I'm just paranoid that if I mash at 148 I will end up with a thin beer. I've also decided to keep the extra chinook hops for another brew. I used Brewers friend to build the recipe and dial in the proper ibu. since mine were 15% AA versus the 11.50% stone brewer used, leaving me with a bit more hops to use on a later brew. That coupled with the fact that I might harvest some yeast from this starter or I might just wash the yeast once I bottle, I'll be able to brew a pretty cheap smash ale since I still have 36 lbs of 2 row on my grain card from my LHBS. It almost feels like it will be a free brew day

 

[TrickyDick]

My second stab at this was kegged today. My hydro sample was looking good color-wise, and tasting great as well (chilled at 45º from the cold crash). It warmed to 50º and I measured a corrected gravity of 1.011. That's a wee overshoot on the gravity (both OG and FG). I estimate I had 1.072 OG based on a dilution of 2 qts for 10 G (Though I might have had a bit less than 10 gallons, I can't really measure in the SS conical). I kegged 9.5 gallons approximately. I tried collecting the yeast to wash but even adding a gallon of water, I ended up with a thick sludge, and very little floating yeasties.... Not sure if its worth saving at this point.

At any rate, I really doubled up the hops for this round. I had FWH/60/45/30/20/15/10/5 minute additions at 2 oz each (goodbye Mr. 1 pound pellet hop pouch). For the steeping/flame-out/whirlpool hops I added my homegrown Chinook - 6 oz worth.

Hydro sample was bitter as to be expected, and I think will be on par with AB. Mine is also very light of body it seems, and that too seems in line with the real deal. I am very excited about this brew.

Grist I used was:
91.8% 2 row
6.2% CaraAroma
1.3% CaraPils
0.7% Chocolate (450 L)

No raisiny flavors like with the C-150 / Special Roast / Special B combo I used last time. More amber colored than brown also.

Will do a side-by-side if I can keep my hands off the bottle of AB I've got in the fridge long enough for this to carbonate.

TD

 

[crusader1612]

My second stab at this was kegged today. My hydro sample was looking good color-wise, and tasting great as well (chilled at 45º from the cold crash). It warmed to 50º and I measured a corrected gravity of 1.011. That's a wee overshoot on the gravity (both OG and FG). I estimate I had 1.072 OG based on a dilution of 2 qts for 10 G (Though I might have had a bit less than 10 gallons, I can't really measure in the SS conical). I kegged 9.5 gallons approximately. I tried collecting the yeast to wash but even adding a gallon of water, I ended up with a thick sludge, and very little floating yeasties.... Not sure if its worth saving at this point.

At any rate, I really doubled up the hops for this round. I had FWH/60/45/30/20/15/10/5 minute additions at 2 oz each (goodbye Mr. 1 pound pellet hop pouch). For the steeping/flame-out/whirlpool hops I added my homegrown Chinook - 6 oz worth.

Hydro sample was bitter as to be expected, and I think will be on par with AB. Mine is also very light of body it seems, and that too seems in line with the real deal. I am very excited about this brew.

Grist I used was:
91.8% 2 row
6.2% CaraAroma
1.3% CaraPils
0.7% Chocolate (450 L)

No raisiny flavors like with the C-150 / Special Roast / Special B combo I used last time. More amber colored than brown also.

Will do a side-by-side if I can keep my hands off the bottle of AB I've got in the fridge long enough for this to carbonate.

TD

Looks Solid. I think the Chocolate will work in your favour for some much needed colour, without adding much in the way of roastyness.

What was your hop schedule?

 

[TrickyDick]

Looks Solid. I think the Chocolate will work in your favour for some much needed colour, without adding much in the way of roastyness.

What was your hop schedule?

Chocolate pinch was an inspiration after a visit to a particular Escondido brewery a while back.

The hop schedule is in there. This is for a ten gallon batch, well, technically 11 gallons.

2 oz Chinook pellet additions used for each: First Wort hopping; 60 min; 45 min; 30 min; 20 min; 15 min; 10 min; 5 min.
Flame out addition 6 oz of whole cone hops from my garden, whirlpooled for 30 minutes, added after wort had dropped to about 185º. I let it dwell there a while and then chilled to 155-160º and let it rest there a while too before chilling to pitching temp. Probably 15 minutes rest with recirculation going at each temp post boil.

TD

 

[ultravista]

Can't wait to hear your results.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Inspired by this thread I brewed something like it today. 90% 2row, 10% cararoma. All chinook w/ 3oz @90, 2oz @45, 2oz @15, 2oz @5 and 3oz whirlpool for 30 min. 007 at 1 mil/ml/ºP. 11.5 gallons into the fermenter at 16.8ºP.

I know it isn't the same but it also isn't far off. Hydro sample was amazing. I was shooting for higher OG but I effed something up today. Mash pH was 5.38 @ 25ºC so that was decent.

 

[TrickyDick]

Can't wait to hear your results.

Tasting from a paper cup, pouring from the ferm freezer, in which I've installed a CO2 manifold to carb up to four kegs, and a faucet for tasting one. Its very close. I'm thinking it could be ready by the weekend. Unfortunately its not carbed fully as yet, and brewing today means the kegs will be evicted from the carbonation freezer/fermentation freezer, and I don't have space to hook up to gas in the main serving fridge. It'll hold 9-10 cornies but can only serve 6 at once on gas. Keep meaning to Tee off one of the gas lines to carb another up there. I might bump one keg that's online now to finish off carbonating this second AB clone attempt. Its super tasty! The last was a bit sweetish I thought and found it to be not so drinkable. One was like eating a sandwich it seems. This one, though overshot the OG and FG (Really LOVE the alleged Stone strain BTW) is easily quaffable. I might just say WTF and pour a sample into a glass at the end of brew day before the eviction begins and do a side by side.....

TD

 

[crusader1612]

Tasting from a paper cup, pouring from the ferm freezer, in which I've installed a CO2 manifold to carb up to four kegs, and a faucet for tasting one. Its very close. I'm thinking it could be ready by the weekend. Unfortunately its not carbed fully as yet, and brewing today means the kegs will be evicted from the carbonation freezer/fermentation freezer, and I don't have space to hook up to gas in the main serving fridge. It'll hold 9-10 cornies but can only serve 6 at once on gas. Keep meaning to Tee off one of the gas lines to carb another up there. I might bump one keg that's online now to finish off carbonating this second AB clone attempt. Its super tasty! The last was a bit sweetish I thought and found it to be not so drinkable. One was like eating a sandwich it seems. This one, though overshot the OG and FG (Really LOVE the alleged Stone strain BTW) is easily quaffable. I might just say WTF and pour a sample into a glass at the end of brew day before the eviction begins and do a side by side.....

TD

you mean the Wyeast PC strain right?

 

[TrickyDick]

you mean the wyeast pc strain right?

yes

 

[h0psnobery]

you mean the Wyeast PC strain right?

Wyeast 1217 PC?

 

[crusader1612]

Wyeast 1217 PC?

Yep.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Here is what my second attempt with the CaraAroma is gonna look like:

22 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 4.0 oz CaraAroma (Weyermann) (178.0 SRM)
4.0 oz CaraPils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool for 15 mins
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)
2 tbsp 5.2 Stabilizer
2 tablets Whirfloc

Projected SRM - 19.5
Projected Bitterness - 90 IBU
Projected ABV - 7%

 

[TrickyDick]

That looks nice Reddskinfan!

Hey just wanted to say it's gonna be a few weeks before I can do my Side By Side comparison/tasting. Having nasty blood pressure problems and to play it safe so as not to interfere with med titration, doctor told me no alcohol until things stabilize, estimate two weeks he thinks. Hopefully I can at least get the kegs finished carbonated - but that seems unlikely without anyone to drink what already tapped since I have a lager (IPL!) going in the ferm / carbing freezer.

TD

 

[ultravista]

I've been thinking about a mix of my two favorite beers, Pliny the Elder and Arrogant Bastard - Pliny the Bastard.

Pliny the Bastard would be the grain bill and hop schedule of Pliny but with all Chinook. The malts are:

84.5% 2 row
6.5% Carapils
6.5% Corn Sugar
2.5% Crystal 60

Target SG is 1.073 and the wort fermented with WLP001.

How does an all Chinook DIPA sound?

 

[stonebrewer]

I've been thinking about a mix of my two favorite beers, Pliny the Elder and Arrogant Bastard - Pliny the Bastard.

Pliny the Bastard would be the grain bill and hop schedule of Pliny but with all Chinook. The malts are:

84.5% 2 row
6.5% Carapils
6.5% Corn Sugar
2.5% Crystal 60

Target SG is 1.073 and the wort fermented with WLP001.

How does an all Chinook DIPA sound?

Like Tree House Sap, one fantastic beer!!!

 

[reddskinnfan]

Here is what my second attempt with the CaraAroma is gonna look like:

22 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 4.0 oz CaraAroma (Weyermann) (178.0 SRM)
4.0 oz CaraPils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool for 15 mins
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)
2 tbsp 5.2 Stabilizer
2 tablets Whirfloc

Projected SRM - 19.5
Projected Bitterness - 90 IBU
Projected ABV - 7%

Almost forgot my 2 tsp of Gypsum in the updated recipe.

 

[TrickyDick]

Here is what my second attempt with the CaraAroma is gonna look like:



22 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)

2 lbs 4.0 oz CaraAroma (Weyermann) (178.0 SRM)

4.0 oz CaraPils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)

1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min

3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min

3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min

3.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min

2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool for 15 mins

1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)

2 tbsp 5.2 Stabilizer

2 tablets Whirfloc



Projected SRM - 19.5

Projected Bitterness - 90 IBU

Projected ABV - 7%

How many gallons is that for??

I don't think that it's possible to put enough hops into this. I suspect that stone is probably using hop extract.
My first try over a year ago, I missed the bitterness mark. This time I used a full pound of pellets in the boil plus leaf in the steep/0 minute additions for 11/10 gallons finished beer. I've also noticed with my burners, that I need to crank up the boil a bit for max hop utilization, otherwise end up with under bittered beers. Could be Lupulin shift effect I suppose...

TD

 

[reddskinnfan]

How many gallons is that for??

I don't think that it's possible to put enough hops into this. I suspect that stone is probably using hop extract.
My first try over a year ago, I missed the bitterness mark. This time I used a full pound of pellets in the boil plus leaf in the steep/0 minute additions for 11/10 gallons finished beer. I've also noticed with my burners, that I need to crank up the boil a bit for max hop utilization, otherwise end up with under bittered beers. Could be Lupulin shift effect I suppose...

TD

10 gallons. Actually, looking at it again, with that steep, the IBUs are projected at 102. Hopefully the Gypsum helps give it edge too.

 

[azscoob]

This thread is endlessly inspiring... The sheer volume of posts all focused on this one beer... It has spawned so many ideas in my head that I have applied to other recipes.

 

[reddskinnfan]

After talking to some brew buds at our most recent Group Buy pickup, I am going to change things a little in an attempt to get more hop aroma/flavor from this hop schedule:

23 lbs 4 oz Pale Malt (89%)
2 lbs 4 oz CaraAroma (9%)
8 oz CaraPils (2%)

1.00 oz Chinook [13%] - FWH
3.00 oz Chinook [13%] - 15 min
3.00 oz Chinook [13%] - 10 min

***Remove boil hops***

***Add whirpool hops***

5.00 oz Chinook [13%] - 15 min stand

1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) - 4L starter, decanted

2 tbsp 5.2 Stabilizer
2 tablets Whirfloc
2 tsp Gypsum

Projected SRM - 19.3
Projected Bitterness - 101 IBU
Projected ABV - 7.2%

Whatcha think??

 

[IslandLizard]

Why would you remove the boil hops? They'll keep adding flavor during the whirlpool, won't they? Or do you have them in a spider preventing a proper whirlpool?

 

[reddskinnfan]

Why would you remove the boil hops? They'll keep adding flavor during the whirlpool, won't they? Or do you have them in a spider preventing a proper whirlpool?

They would become more isomerized, so adding to bitterness, too. I think the flavor compounds might get cooked off, and that's what we are looking for here. Just an attempt. If it doesn't work, I go back to the old schedule.

 

[TrickyDick]

I think it's going to be a lot darker than you want with that much caraaroma, which has a pretty high L° as I recall.

As far as the hops, I like it, but I would still suggest that you simply cannot add enough hops to this recipe. I used an entire pound of pellets during the boil and an additional 6 oz of leaf hops for flame out for ten gallons.

Other than that, I think you are on the right track.

 

[reddskinnfan]

I think it's going to be a lot darker than you want with that much caraaroma, which has a pretty high L° as I recall.

As far as the hops, I like it, but I would still suggest that you simply cannot add enough hops to this recipe. I used an entire pound of pellets during the boil and an additional 6 oz of leaf hops for flame out for ten gallons.

Other than that, I think you are on the right track.

I have my CaraAroma in Beersmith as 180L. Even with that, color is still under 19.3 SRM. My last batch was 20.5 SRM and I thought was only slightly dark, maybe 1-2 SRM...

I dropped from 13.5% CaraAroma to 9%, upped the 2 Row to 89% from 86.5% and added .5# of CaraPils for head and body, which the last example slightly lacked. I also thought hops were close last time, but we're just missing a little flavor and aroma. The hop schedule and forgotten Gypsum from last batch should address that. I plan to have this one done before our next Group Buy for others to try (hopefully).

 

[IslandLizard]

They would become more isomerized, so adding to bitterness, too. I think the flavor compounds might get cooked off, and that's what we are looking for here. Just an attempt. If it doesn't work, I go back to the old schedule.

We talked about that on Saturday, trying to mimic more of the process Stone or any other larger craft brewery goes through. I still have the feeling that timing, duration, and prevailing temperatures during the various stages is essential in that process, e.g., it takes them longer to transfer the wort to the whirlpool tank than it takes us to hook up a hose. So all that time those late hops deliver their charge at say 210-190°F.

 

[reddskinnfan]

We talked about that on Saturday, trying to mimic more of the process Stone or any other larger craft brewery goes through. I still have the feeling that timing, duration, and prevailing temperatures during the various stages is essential in that process, e.g., it takes them longer to transfer the wort to the whirlpool tank than it takes us to hook up a hose. So all that time those late hops deliver their charge at say 210-190°F.

Agreed, but we don't know if part of the trick is to remove the boil hops to make room for whirpool hops getting better flavor utilization.

Anywho, I am sticking with this and it will be a good experiment.

 

[TrickyDick]

Sounds like you've got a handle on this!
I think I get a lot of wort carmelization during the boil with my system. Hard to control Amber and darker beers from being too dark. Need to be in tune with your system to get color right, which I think is the most difficult part to nail consistently.

Hopefully this week or next I can do a SBS on my latest effort. Planning some st pats day brews and going to rack the IPL. Should have a narrow window for carbing a few kegs in the Ferm freezer after kegging the IPL before the next lager takes up residence.

TD

 

[ultravista]

Pliny The Arrogant Elder Bastard

The recipe below is the base for Pliny (More Beer), with CaraAroma subbed for C40, bittering by Chinook, and dry hopped with Chinook, Columbus, and Centennial. SRM will be a bit darker from the CaraAroma. The beer fermented with WLP001 (Pliny) instead of WLP007 (Bastard).

Do you think 147 IBUs of Chinook will be overpowering? The Pliny recipe with Magnum, Simcoe, Columbus, and Centennial is 153 IBU (per Beersmith).

The resulting beer should be dry, like Pliny, but bursting with Chinook goodness.

Looking for feedback.

----------
Batch Size: 6 gallons (to account for dry hop absorption)
Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.0 %
Bitterness: 148.4 IBUs

13 lbs. Pale Malt (2 Row) - 84.5 %
1 lbs. Carapils - 6.5 %
1 lbs. Corn Sugar - 6.5 %
6.1 oz. Caraaroma - 2.5 %

3.00 oz. Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 90 min
1.00 oz. Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 45 min
1.00 oz. Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30 min
2.00 oz. Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 0 min

Ferment with WLP001

Dry hop
2 oz. Columbus
1 oz. Centennial
1 oz. Chinook
----------