Can someone explain what went wrong ( malted corn)

[OHIOSTEVE]

I soaked the shelled corn in water,,, got sprouts about an inch long.. put it in a pillow case in teh dryer and got all of the sprouts off....ran it through a grinder ( major pain in the rear) Mashed it at 150 degrees tonight for 90 minutes.. 5 gallons had an adjusted hydro reading of 1.019...SHOULD have been about 1.050.....I thought I did every thing right. The only change in my normal mashing I just did a full volume mash...no sparge.

 

[Yooper]

I soaked the shelled corn in water,,, got sprouts about an inch long.. put it in a pillow case in teh dryer and got all of the sprouts off....ran it through a grinder ( major pain in the rear) Mashed it at 150 degrees tonight for 90 minutes.. 5 gallons had an adjusted hydro reading of 1.019...SHOULD have been about 1.050.....I thought I did every thing right. The only change in my normal mashing I just did a full volume mash...no sparge.

You didn't use any 6-row barley with it, just corn?

 

[Revvy]

I thought the reason we had to process the corn either by gel rolling it (flaked) or doing a cereal mash, is because malting it didn't work like, or at least as well as malting barley does.

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

I thought the reason we had to process the corn either by gel rolling it (flaked) or doing a cereal mash, is because malting it didn't work like, or at least as well as malting barley does.

That may well be true.. I used JUST corn, BUT I though when properly malted ( which I THOUGHT I did) it had a high enough power to convert on its own.. I guess maybe I was wrong. I also thought malting it removed the necessity of a cereal mash...again I was evidently wrong....back to the drawing board

 

[eastoak]

malting does work with corn, it's how they make chicha, and it's called jora after malting.

 

[eastoak]

i think distillers do this too, malt corn and make spirits.

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

well I searched for a corn whiskey recipe to see where I went wrong because the process would be the same up to a point. They do exactly as I did EXCEPT they pour BOILING water over the corn after it has been malted and crushed. They let it set until it cools naturally, so they are malting it AND doing a cereal mash basically... Oh well try and try again.

 

[Revvy]

But then why don't we buy malted corn along with all the other grains? Why do we still have to further break it down with grain in a cereal mash or use it processed in some other way? I don't think malting it alone is good enough. I'm thinking even though you malt it, you still need something with distatic power to fully convert it.

 

[Revvy]

well I searched for a corn whiskey recipe to see where I went wrong because the process would be the same up to a point. They do exactly as I did EXCEPT they pour BOILING water over the corn after it has been malted and crushed. They let it set until it cools naturally, so they are malting it AND doing a cereal mash basically... Oh well try and try again.

So you WERE missing a further step to it. Cool!!!

 

[Yooper]

But then why don't we buy malted corn along with all the other grains? Why do we still have to further break it down with grain in a cereal mash or use it processed in some other way? I don't think malting it alone is good enough. I'm thinking even though you malt it, you still need something with distatic power to fully convert it.

Even distilleries use other grains in their corn mash. I do not know the numbers, but I just always thought it was because it was due to the lower diastatic power of corn.

 

[Revvy]

Even distilleries use other grains in their corn mash. I do not know the numbers, but I just always it was because it was due to the lower diastatic power of corn.

That's what I thought.

 

[F250]

Hmmm...... is this thread about beer,....................or shine? :cross:

Rick

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

beer....trying to make an all corn beer and spent a great deal of time only to fail.. I will however succeed...somehow. I do not want to add sugar or 2 row but I may have to. Although it seems what I missed was the cereal mash after malting.

 

[eastoak]

chicha does not use any other grain in the mash and it is a beer but it is only 1-3% ABV so obviously there are conversion problems there.

 

[duboman]

chicha does not use any other grain in the mash and it is a beer but it is only 1-3% ABV so obviously there are conversion problems there.

Chicha is made by actually chewing/masticating the corn and then fermenting it. It's my understanding that the saliva provides what's necessary to convert

Sam from Dog Fish did an episode on this when his show was on TV, forgot what it was called....

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

maybe I shoulda tossed in some enzymes...oh well more studying

 

[eastoak]

Chicha is made by actually chewing/masticating the corn and then fermenting it. It's my understanding that the saliva provides what's necessary to convert

Sam from Dog Fish did an episode on this when his show was on TV, forgot what it was called....

that is a type of chicha and the mouth processed corn is called muko (after it's processed), it's not sprouted but dried, ground and chewed. this is not as common anymore being so laborious.

 

[AllHopAbandon]

Chicha is made by actually chewing/masticating the corn and then fermenting it. It's my understanding that the saliva provides what's necessary to convert

Sam from Dog Fish did an episode on this when his show was on TV, forgot what it was called....

Saliva contains α-amylase, just like malted barley does. Chew on a few grains or some potato and do an iodine test every couple of minutes, you'll see that the starch is being converted. Or if you keep on chewing, you'll actually taste the sweetness after a while.

 

[unionrdr]

Tizwin isn't chicha. It's malted,dried, & mashed/boiled. Not much is said in the articles I found.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiswin
http://www.sacred-texts.com/nam/pla/jat/jat76.htm
Hope these help a little.

 

[IXVolt]

I believe Shiners use at least 25% malted barley in their grain bill to get enough DP to convert the corn.

Edit:

It's my understanding you need an average diastatic power of 70 for overall conversion of mash.


Diastatic Power as reported by
Cargill Malt Specialty Group:
Grain Type

Diastatic Power in Degrees Lintner​

2-Row Pale Malt

110​

6-Row Pale Malt

150​

Highly modified Pilsner Malt

125​

Malted Wheat

120​

Vienna Malt

100​

Munich Malt

70​

Crystal Malt

0​

Unmalted Wheat

0​

Chocolate malt, roast barley

0​

Unmalted Adjunct grains (rice, corn)

0​

 

[barrooze]

Chicha is made by actually chewing/masticating the corn and then fermenting it. It's my understanding that the saliva provides what's necessary to convert

Sam from Dog Fish did an episode on this when his show was on TV, forgot what it was called....

Brew Masters

 

[IXVolt]

BTW, love the irony that this thread is in the beginners area.

 

[duboman]

Brew Masters

Thanks! Couldn't remember the name of the show

 

[barrooze]

BTW, love the irony that this thread is in the beginners area.

That's exactly what I was thinking... Beginner brewing with 100% corn maybe? I think most of us are beginners at that!

 

[unionrdr]

My reasoning was the native Americans got about 3% the way they did it without added grains. Bit of a mystery?...

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

it in a pillow case in teh dryer and got all of the sprouts off....

If the overall temperature of the grain went above the maximum temperature for the enzyme, the enzymes will have been deactivated.

A quick google shows that folks air-dry the corn once it has sprouted, usually using a fan.

You may want to try it on a smaller scale, say 4 or 8oz and see how it goes.

MC

 

[krackin]

I called Jack Daniels to see exactly how they malted their corn. Evidently they felt I wasn't far enough south at this time. I did get directions.

 

[IXVolt]

I called Jack Daniels to see exactly how they malted their corn. Evidently they felt I wasn't far enough south at this time. I did get directions.

You got direction on how to go south?

 

[huntingohio]

krackin, JD uses barley too in there mash. Saw ut on one of there many history channel specails.

I would guess you would either need A enzyme or atleast 10-20% barley to get conversion

 

[krackin]

You got direction on how to go south?

Pretty much. Didn't sound allthat scenic.