Can I use EMT as a ground?

[Dgonza9]

I read that it was allowable to have up to 16 #12 wires in 3/4" EMT.

Yeah, good luck getting that done. I have 8 and it wasn't easy to pull those. I was going to run a separate ground wire. But now I'm wondering if I can use the metal conduit as the ground here. I don't know if I can pull another wire through.

Acceptable?

 

[DaleHair]

Yes, as long as it properly installed.

 

[sils13]

Personally I would always pull an equipment ground, and never rely on conduit it's only as good as the weakest link.

 

[mux]

I read that it was allowable to have up to 16 #12 wires in 3/4" EMT.

Yeah, good luck getting that done. I have 8 and it wasn't easy to pull those. I was going to run a separate ground wire. But now I'm wondering if I can use the metal conduit as the ground here. I don't know if I can pull another wire through.

Acceptable?

Yes, But if you are Piping and pulling a new run size accordingly and pull a ground conductor.
“Sections 250.4(A) and (B)”General Requirements for Grounding
and Bonding” set forth in detail what must be accomplished by the grounding and
bonding of metal parts of the electrical system. The metal parts must form an
effective low-impedance path to ground in order to safely conduct any fault current
and facilitate the operation of overcurrent devices protecting the enclosed circuit
conductors.”

 

[mux]

Personally I would always pull an equipment ground, and never rely on conduit it's only as good as the weakest link.

100% agree. Did an electrician properly install that run? Cheap insurance if not.

 

[mux]

Also if it was that tough to pull you should get some lube.
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/electr...ium-synthetic-clear-lubricant-1-qt-93126.html

 

[Dgonza9]

Yes, as long as it properly installed.

I'll run another ground wire.

 

[P-J]

I read that it was allowable to have up to 16 #12 wires in 3/4" EMT.
Yeah, good luck getting that done. I have 8 and it wasn't easy to pull those...

You scare the hell out of me. You are on the short circuit of frying yourself into being a crispy critter.

IMHO you do not have a clue.

Sorry... I'm done and will not bother you anymore in any of your multi threads...

Please be very careful in what you choose to do. You are playing a very serious game of "You Bet Your Life".

 

[DaleHair]

Some receptacles are rated as self grounding but it is a good idea to use a ground wire to the box. I sometimes will use one wire as a pull wire to pull two wires in, it's easiest with wire lube.

Edit: It is also easier to have one person feed the wire in while another pulls.

 

[mux]

Some receptacles are rated as self grounding but it is a good idea to use a ground wire to the box. I sometimes will use one wire as a pull wire to pull two wires in, it's easiest with wire lube.

That's what I would do! You really don't need to push a fish tape through there if its was that tough of a pull. Post a picture of the pipe run. How long how many bends ect.. I'll try and help.

 

[Dgonza9]

You scare the hell out of me. You are on the short circuit of frying yourself into being a crispy critter.

IMHO you do not have a clue.

Sorry... I'm done and will not bother you anymore in any of your multi threads...

Please be very careful in what you choose to do. You are playing a very serious game of "You Bet Your Life".

Please stay off my threads, sir. I'm a high school english teacher trying to upgrade my brewery, not an electrician.

HERE'S where I got my information on how many wires are allowable in 3/4" conduit.

If I handed you a copy of Dante's Inferno and watched you teach it, I'm sure it'd be equally confusing. But in my line of work, we welcome questions and don't belittle others.

Again, please stay off my threads. The last one got deleted because you can't act like a decent human being.

 

[lschiavo]

So do I just run a wire from the ground screw on the receptacle to the metal box it's in? The conduit goes to my cp, which is grounded to the electrical panel ground bar.

I may run a wire if I can manage to pull it. Funny, I thought 3/4" was plenty of room for this.

For most conduit, that is acceptable. Properly installed metal conduit is an approved bonding method between enclosures. You did not mention what conduit you are using...

You should pull once (plan ahead). Adding a wire can be tough. If you pull them all out, attach the ground and pull them back in, you will be much happier and spend much less time and curses

EDIT...Soap/Lube is for big wire...it should not apply to breweries...JMO

 

[Dgonza9]

That's what I would do! You really don't need to push a fish tape through there if its was that tough of a pull. Post a picture of the pipe run. How long how many bends ect.. I'll try and help.

It's metal conduit (EMT) and it does have 3 bends. Here are some pics:

Control panel

Conduit run to receptacles

 

[Dgonza9]

For most conduit, that is acceptable. Properly installed metal conduit is an approved bonding method between enclosures. You did not mention what conduit you are using...

You should pull once (plan ahead). Adding a wire can be tough. If you pull them all out, attach the ground and pull them back in, you will be much happier and spend much less time and curses

EDIT...Soap is for big wire...it should not apply to breweries...JMO

It's EMT. I think I mentioned it in the first post.

Can you give me a primer on how you would I pull all 10 wires at one time? Do you just tie them in a bundle?

I'm willing to redo it if that's the best plan.

 

[DaleHair]

As long as the fittings are wrench tight it should be sufficiently grounded. How are the boxes connected together?

 

[hxcpunk71]

It's EMT. I think I mentioned it in the first post.

Can you give me a primer on how you would I pull all 10 wires at one time? Do you just tie them in a bundle?

I'm willing to redo it if that's the best plan.

10 would be the absolute max, and I would lube them to reduce friction and scraping. It's easiest to hook one wire to the pull string I'd fish tape and tape the rest(tightly) to the hooked wire. As for the ground its more than to code to use emt as a ground as long as the couplings nd connectors are tight. I'm an electrician with info not judgement(pj) so feel free to PM me with any ?s! I always like a challenge!

 

[lschiavo]

It's EMT. I think I mentioned it in the first post.

Can you give me a primer on how you would I pull all 10 wires at one time? Do you just tie them in a bundle?

I'm willing to redo it if that's the best plan.

I'm sorry. I guess I missed that.

You will need a pull wire/tape/rope of some sort in the conduit. If you plan to re-pull, attach your pull wire to the ones you pull out and pull it in as you pull the wires out. This all works best with a person on each end...

Once you have a solid pull wire/tape, attach the bundle of wire you want to pull in in as compact a package as you can manage. Tightly wrapped electrical tape 6-8 inches down the bundle is usually all it takes with maybe one wire looped through the pull wire/tape. Make the connection as compact as possible! Staggering wires can help keep the end small and get you around bends.

Lube does help if you have lots of bends or too small conduit. Murphy's Oil is what the old timers used if you have that in your cupboard. The most important part is keeping the wires in a nice bundle while feeding in. A big spaghetti mess takes up much more space...

Work smart....best wishes

 

[Dgonza9]

As long as the fittings are wrench tight it should be sufficiently grounded. How are the boxes connected together?

I used box spacers.

 

[hxcpunk71]

I used box spacers.

Just use a ground screw or a grounding pig tail in Your handy boxes to insure a good bond, unless there is metal on metal between the boxes. The ground screws are reasonably cheap at home chepo.

 

[BeerguyNC61]

All those 90's are making it a tough pull.

 

[sils13]

To pull all your wires in at once in the field we call it a head but u pretty much loop one wire around the head on the fish tape fold it I've nice and tight and stagger each individual going away from the head making it as slim and tight as possible if u don't have a fish tape make the loop do the head is round and push it! U don't want any bulges just nice and tight

 

[wubears71]

For Its worth in regards to using EMT for conduit, I had a situation at home where a fitting worked its way loose (I'm guessing vibrations from the washing machine) on some that was installed before we moved in. If there wasn't a ground pulled and something used at that receptacle short circuited the ground would not have been made. This is why I never rely on conduit of any kind to provide the sole path to ground.

 

[Dgonza9]

That's a good point. So it's allowable, but not recommended. I'll pull a ground wire.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[mux]

Check my work! Don't take my advice!

 

[BeerguyNC61]

If thats your work your license should be pulled!!

 

[DaleHair]

For Its worth in regards to using EMT for conduit, I had a situation at home where a fitting worked its way loose (I'm guessing vibrations from the washing machine) on some that was installed before we moved in.

That's why I say if it is installed properly, If there is any vibration, flexible conduit is needed. A loose fitting it is bad, potentially dangerous, even if a ground wire is installed.

 

[mux]

If thats your work your license should be pulled!!

That's what we get to fix.




They are still using this!

 

[BeerguyNC61]

At least it's not bare wire wrapped around porcelain insulator or a screw in glass fuse......
Ahhhhh the good ole daze!

 

[mux]

At least it's not bare wire wrapped around porcelain insulator or a screw in glass fuse......
Ahhhhh the good ole daze!

I run into knob and tube from time to time.

 

[wubears71]

I run into knob and tube from time to time.

I find it in my house on occasion. Our house is 97 years old nd the wire was upgraded to Romex sometime in the mid 80s. However corners were cut and some Knob and Tube was left inside the walls.