Can I get some critique on this IPA recipe

[PantherCity]

Ok, so this would be my second IPA. The first I made with my brother and I didn't have any input on the recipe because my brother called from the LHBS and asked what I wanted for my birthday. It had 12 lbs Czech pils malt for the base and 1 lb. of crystal 60. It had 2 oz of 15.8% warrior(~ 131 IBUs) for the hour and I think just 1 oz Cascades at 20 min and 5 min. After I kegged it I thought it needed some dry hop to balance out the extreme bitter (from the warrior) but didn't have any cascades on hand so I used .5 oz of EKG and .5 of Goldings and maybe a .25oz of summit. I did not like what this did. It tastes too grassy or earthy , maybe due to the ~15% summit dry hop. I don't like it, but my friends don't seem to mind it (at least the ones who drink IPAs on the reg) It was too bitter with no malt body or hop aroma.

So my point it that I had a Sh**ty IPA experience and I want to make sure this sounds good.
here goes

13# maris otter
1# Munich
.5# biscuit
.5# Cara Red
.25# crystal 80

2 oz horizon 8.5% @60
2oz cascade 5.9% @30
2oz cascade 5.9% @10
2oz cascade 5.9% @ flame out
2oz cascade 5.9% Dry Hop


OG = 1.070
Aprox 80 IBUs

Pitch decanted starter of wlp001
ferm @ 70 for 21 days
Crash for 2-3 days
keg
So what do YOU think?
do I need the Crystal 80?
I like Cara red for the color and head.

Thanks

 

[TheBaconator]

Your grassy flavors likely came from dry hopping for too long. I wouldn't dry hop for more than a week or so. Dry hopping is also not going to take away bitterness.

I haven't actually made an IPA in a bit but I've certainly made some overly bitter beers. I'd stick to low alpha hops and lots of them. So maybe stick with the same amount but use saaz or something like that with a 3.5 to 4.5% alpha.

In all honesty with that much hops you're not likely to notice any malt flavor from the crystal 80.

 

[PantherCity]

I know that a dry hop will not reduce bitterness. I am not afraid of the bitterness I just wanted to round out the hop character with some flavor and aroma that was lacking. Also, I included the first paragraph only as an anecdote to put this new recipe in perspective. I was looking for more critique on the grain bill which I think should be palatable with only ~80 IBUs. What do you think of the munich and biscuit quantities. I thought they would be imparting much more of the malt character than the 4oz of crystal 80.

 

[indianaroller]

I would leave outthe Munich,biscuit, and Carared. You may make it too malty with those. Also consider using a 1/2 pound of crystal 40 instead of the 80. The 40 will lend a light sweet caramel flavor.

 

[PantherCity]

Really? I may sub the 40 for the 80 but I really want to have malt character to match the hops so I dont want to drop the munich and biscuit. I don't want a light, thin IPA. I'm planning on this being a big beer. My OG is 1.070. Maybe I should reduce them a little? What about the hop schedule?

 

[tlael]

IMHO, dry hopping is a bit over rated. You can get the same aromas with a 10 min, 5 min, 2 min, and flameout addition.

Also, check out roasted barley for a nice red hue. .25# does a 5 gallon batch really nicely.
I have a very similar American IPA recipe that subs the 80 with roasted barley and omits the carared.

 

[PGHBrew]

In my experience, IPAs are best when kept simple. The malt should be a supporting role at best. IPAs are a showcase for hops.

If your set on keeping the carared, I suggest scrapping the crystal 80 and biscuit. Make up the difference with base malt. Having to many ingredients tends to blurr the flavor in my experience. Plus, on your next IPA you can change quantities or ingredients and have a better feel for what they are contributing. This will allow you to better dial in your recipe to your preference.


Hope this helps. Cheers.

 

[PantherCity]

I like the idea of no dry hop, it would be cool if once it was in the fermenter its done till its time to crash cool. I'm going to drop the crystal 80, it was only for color. This might be more of an Indian Red Ale, I just love the flame red color. I haven't gotten a feel for Munich yet but I really like biscuit.

What do Y'all think of dropping the dry hop? I want the intense Cascade aroma.
This was kind of inspired by the maltieness of the Stone Ruination IPA.

 

[PantherCity]

I think I'm going to use wlp007 dry english ale yeast. Seems like it would be good for this type of brew.

From White Labs Site:

"WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast
Clean, highly flocculent, and highly attenuative yeast. This yeast is similar to WLP002 in flavor profile, but is 10% more attenuative. This eliminates the residual sweetness, and makes the yeast well suited for high gravity ales. It is also reaches terminal gravity quickly. 80% attenuation will be reached even with 10% ABV beers.
Attenuation: 70-80%
Flocculation: Medium to High
Optimum fermentation temperature: 65-70°F
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium-High "

 

[starrfish]

I like a bit of biscuit or victory malt in my IPAs, but I might get rid of the 80lvb crystal...

 

[HSB]

What kind of IPA are you trying to make? It looks to me like a British grain bill/yeast selection with a U.S. hop profile. That's certainly fine, if intentional. I won't call the beer police or anything, just want to make sure it's intentional.

My opinions: For a U.S. IPA I prefer American Pale Malt to MO. (Nothing against MO, I use it quite regularly) If you stick with MO, not sure that I see the need to pair it with Biscuit. I like the KISS approach to a Pale Ale grain bill, no more than 3.

For the IBU's, if bitterness has been an issue for you, you might want to scale back a bit there. You have a BU:GU of 1.14 (IBUs / OG). Might want to scale that back to .8ish; so IBU of ~56. (I know, I know, that's not super sexy xtreme!!!, but based upon what you originally wrote...it may be what you like)

Hops: Kill the 30 minute addition. Get what you want bitterness wise out of the 60 minute addition, and maybe move the 30 minute to 5 minutes on your schedule.

 

[JonK331]

Your grassy flavors likely came from dry hopping for too long. I wouldn't dry hop for more than a week or so. Dry hopping is also not going to take away bitterness.

I haven't actually made an IPA in a bit but I've certainly made some overly bitter beers. I'd stick to low alpha hops and lots of them. So maybe stick with the same amount but use saaz or something like that with a 3.5 to 4.5% alpha.

In all honesty with that much hops you're not likely to notice any malt flavor from the crystal 80.

Dude Saaz is really not good in an IPA

 

[JonK331]

So I would tend to agree about the MO. It's really rich for an already big beer. If you want to use some MO, use half MO and half 2-row or Rahr or something ligher. The blend gives the best of both worlds without going overboard. You have to remember that MO is closer to 3L than the usual 1.4L or so for 2-row. It is very slightly less fermentable because of the additional kilining and in that quantity, quite a bit darker. If you've ever made a beer with 100% MO you know what I mean. I regularly use a blend of Rahr and MO, usually about 60/40 and I think the blend is better than either one on its own. Your hop schedule looks fine to me.

 

[PantherCity]

@hsb That is good advice. I'm going to drop the crystal 80 and use 7 lbs 2row and 6 lbs MO, then I will drop the 30 min addition and move it to 5 min and drop the dry hop. Yes I know it is an American hop profile and a British grain bill. but I'm not too familiar with British hops and wanted to make the classic cascade IPA but with a maltier body. Like a Mirror Pond on steroids. let me plug it all back in with changes and Ill post the new recipe.

 

[PantherCity]

New and Improved! Thanks for the help. I'm still open to ideas.
7# 2-Row
6# maris otter
1# Munich
.5# biscuit
.5# Cara Red


2 oz horizon 8.5% @60
2oz cascade 5.9% @10
2oz cascade 5.9% @5
2oz cascade 5.9% @ flame out

OG = 1.069
~62 IBUs

 

[gypsyhead]

the original almost matched the robust porter I'm brewing tomorrow, save for a little, black malt, curious to see how the differences in hops and yeast play out to make completely different beers.

 

[starrfish]

the original almost matched the robust porter I'm brewing tomorrow, save for a little, black malt, curious to see how the differences in hops and yeast play out to make completely different beers.

hey gypsy, post that recipe! Hops and yeast will make a WORLD of difference!!!

 

[McTarnamins]

My standard IPA grain bill (which I have on tap now) is well balanced and easy.

12# marris otter
1# Caramunich (~45L)
.5# Carapils

Add your hops bill and enjoy. This has a nice orange color and the caramel munich adds a nice balance to the hop note. Marris is all I use for IPA's. The carapils (along with all those hops) will give you a foam head that you could float a Ford Truck on.

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[brewtus_]

What do you think of taking out the biscuit and adding 4 oz. of Special B?

 

[mustangracer]

With that much Cascade it is going to have some SERIOUS grapefruit flavor. You may consider using something like 1oz fuggles or willamet and 1 oz cascade for your additions instead of all cascade to give it some complexity and dry hop it with 1oz of Cascade for that citrusy nose.

 

[McTarnamins]

Why special B? I've never seen an IPA recipe with Special B. I good IPA is simple and well balanced with the Hops as the main taste. Then add some malt for balance and a huge head. See my grain bill above with your hops bill and you'll be happy. Use American Ale yeast and mash anywhere aroung 153.

Cheers,

 

[brewtus_]

Why special B? I've never seen an IPA recipe with Special B. I good IPA is simple and well balanced with the Hops as the main taste. Then add some malt for balance and a huge head. See my grain bill above with your hops bill and you'll be happy. Use American Ale yeast and mash anywhere aroung 153.

Cheers,

At 4oz., I'm thinking that it will impart a little richness and caramel to the malt profile. The OP wanted some additional maltiness.

Plus I like Special B. I've made some IPA's with Special B and it's an interesting unique flavor.