Can I fit 4 sixtels in this freezer?

[Michele Craft]

Hi all, Hope everyone is doing well. A while back I had started thinking about my bar build and was reading a lot here and asking questions, then life happened, the pandemic happened, a move/house renovation was delayed and now things are settling down so I want to get back to the bar building. Chest freezers are hard to come by. My initial thought was I'd like to do a 4 tap, build it into the back bar and have it so I can roll it forward to tip the lid back for keg changes.

Going to build the bar ourselves and include a beverage cooler for cans and bottles as well as some cabinets I plan to make. I'd like to stay at about 48" wide for the keezer and given the need for 4 taps (more on that in a bit) it looks like I need about an 8.8 - 9.0 cu ft freezer depending on dimensions. Freezers are hard to come by ( damn pandemic!). I found one that we could get by mid October which is a Kenmore model 17992 8.8cu'. Looking at the dimensions excluding the hump, I have 30.43" x 15.5". When I put that in smart draw with 9.25" diameter circles, it's REALLY tight. Like I can move the circles so they JUST touch the sides and each other and it looks like I could pull it off but is there anyone that can draw the 30.43" x 15.5" and tell me if you'd do it? The co2 would be on the hump and I'd need a collar (and plan to just make a whole new lid and go up through with black iron pipe in an elongated "U" for the taps). I know there's a Midea 8.8 which will fit just fine but it's 25.5" x 17 3/4" in the well but I can't get it..... I looked at the thread that was started years ago for something close to see if it's realistic to think this Kenmore could do it but would like a gut check from someone more learned than I am. Like if things are super tight in there, is that just a PITA for changing etc? What about manifold space (figure I'd put that on the collar) etc?

Part 2 is, realistically, do I NEED 4 taps? I mean more is obviously better, right? But if I have to sacrifice space......... What are you guys using at home as far as # of taps? I don't brew but I have 2 friends that do but if they keg, it's to pin/ball locks so I pick up a bit of space.

Going to be doing a lot more reading and gathering parts and lumber (if I can get it!) but unfortunately, this back bar area and the keezer is kind of the lynch pin since it sets cabinet size on either side, as well as counter height (I'm bringing counter to it on either side and will wood top the freezer itself with a drip tray/glass rinser integrated.

thanks in advance!

 

[IslandLizard]

Welcome back!
IIRC, we were talking about this project. Time flies!

I don't have any sixtels here right now, to measure the actual width, including any protrusions over the full height, not just the bottom.
Many sixtels have a welding seam halfway up, or depending on the manufacturer, may have other seams and bulges. Not sure what the specs are, and if the often referred diameter of 9" (or 9 1/4") includes those protrusions. Maybe check with a beverage distributor, brewery, taphouse, taproom, or craft beer bar?

If it's a very tight fit, all kegs touching, it's indeed a PITA to replace kegs in a freezer chest. But a mere 1/4 inch space between makes a big (or all the) difference.

 

[Michele Craft]

We were talking about this before and I'm back and reading up a storm! LOL! Closing on the old house is next week and then we'll hopefully be able to really start planning some things out. I've been using 9-1/4" as my circle in drawings on SmartDraw and actually have 4 cardboard circles we've kept in the car should we actually see any freezers on display so we can put the circles in and play around. Those are actually closer to 9-1/2".

Might start searching on the 9.0cu' size just to see what pops up unless we decide 3 really is enough. I mean I like beer and all, but only 2 of us live here and now with the state of things and people not coming in and out.... tho since I'm building cabinets and such right up to it, my gut tells me build for 4 even if only 3 are on or whatever vs building for 3 and then not being able to get a bigger freezer in the space in the future. Plus I like even numbers

 

[IslandLizard]

It all depends on what kind of beers you'd like to have around on tap, at a time. If you do some more serious beer entertaining, 5 taps may not even be enough.

For example, a friend of mine has 12 taps in his basement bar, coming through the center wall, with top-freezer fridges (holding 6 ball lock kegs each) on the other side. He has awesome parties, and yes, beer is a big part of that. So is (often) live music, good food, and wonderful company. And everyone brings more beer, kegged, canned, bottled, growlers, homebrew, commercial micro and nano craft, vintage, sours, ...

I'm a prime guy, so 5 it is for me. Coincidentally, those are number of ball locks that fit in my upright keezer with taps coming through the door.

 

[Michele Craft]

A bunch of our friends are miller/coors light drinkers so we tend to keep that kind of thing in cans/bottles as well as a pretty eclectic collection of other bottles we keep "cellared" and stuff out in the garage fridge so the bar taps are more for a seasonal, and then a good standard plus space for if a friend brings his home brew. Our liquor collection rivals a PA state store so we're pretty equal opportunity drinkers lol!

 

[Michele Craft]

Looks like on Friday we'll be the proud new owners of a Thompson 9cu' chest freezer from Sam's. Outside is 37.15" x 26.25" and I found one page that said inside was 34L x 22W front to back. That doesn't seem right to me but even if I take off 6" from outside which seems about right from others I've seen (3" on each edge), I'm at 31x20 and the fact that it's 20" front to back means kegs can line up and not be in a V so assuming the hump isn't super side (we're rolling the dice but it'd have to be over 10" which is unlikely) we should have no problems with 4 sixtels.

And now the acquiring of parts begins, along with line length calcs etc.

 

[IslandLizard]

Looks like on Friday we'll be the proud new owners of a Thompson 9cu' chest freezer from Sam's. Outside is 37.15" x 26.25" and I found one page that said inside was 34L x 22W front to back. That doesn't seem right to me but even if I take off 6" from outside which seems about right from others I've seen (3" on each edge), I'm at 31x20 and the fact that it's 20" front to back means kegs can line up and not be in a V so assuming the hump isn't super side (we're rolling the dice but it'd have to be over 10" which is unlikely) we should have no problems with 4 sixtels.

And now the acquiring of parts begins, along with line length calcs etc.

Yeah, if those are the inside dimensions, it's a great fit.
Parts wise, check out EVA Barrier tubing and the accompanying push-to-connect adapters. For both beer and gas lines. There are various (and recent) threads on that. It's fairly new to the market, quite cheap, and puts vinyl lines to shame.

I still use BevSeal Ultra 235 (PET lined) lines, but will go EVA soon. Much easier to work with too.

 

[Michele Craft]

Ah yes, I was reading some threads about the Eva lines today. Is 1/4" id the standard? I'll have to start making a parts list. Thought I had the taps figured out with perlicks but I've also been reading about the flow control ones. Lots to think about

 

[IslandLizard]

Ah yes, I was reading some threads about the Eva lines today. Is 1/4" id the standard? I'll have to start making a parts list. Thought I had the taps figured out with perlicks but I've also been reading about the flow control ones. Lots to think about

4mm ID (8mm OD) is standard for EVA beer and gas lines. 5.5' of 4mm line gives enough restriction for dispensing beer at 10-12 psi at 38F.

For gas line some use 5mm ID EVA line, instead, as it's easier to stretch over 1/4" (6.25 mm) gas manifold barbs.
But since you're buying new, I recommend buying all your tap gear with 1/4" MFL connections where possible, such as your regulator outputs, manifold shutoffs.
Pay attention how to connect those EVA lines via PTC adapters to your Sanke couplers. AFAIK, they make PTC adapters for them too.

In your keezer build, allow ample space above the kegs for the Sanke couplers, with the lines attached. The assemblies add quite a few inches altogether, unless you go with low profile Sanke couplers.

 

[Michele Craft]

Can I revisit this post now that I'm starting to gather parts to do the build? Is there a way to easily go from D coupler to a ball lock (or even pin lock)? I was looking at these because of the above recommendation for MFL but I don't think there's any kind of quick detach (like for my air compressor lines in the shop) that would work here is there?

https://www.amazon.com/Kegco-KT85-M...garden&sprefix=heat+sink+paste,aps,202&sr=1-7
Trying to make this as easy as possible. With something like this connector, then what actually goes on the end of the EVA line to make the connection since this is a screw on connector vs a push and clamp type thing.

Thanks in advance. I swear the more I look the more confused I get.

 

[IslandLizard]

Is there a way to easily go from D coupler to a ball lock

Yes!
Screw ball lock posts (they look like carbonation caps) on your Sanke coupler. Then use ball lock Quick Disconnects (QDs) on your gas and beer lines to connect to those posts.

Definitely use MFL connections on the QDs if you're going to use EVA barrier line, so they will fit the John Guest or Duotight MFL Push-to-Connect adapters to 8mm (OD) EVA.

 

[ATLBeer]

I put these on an existing sanke I had when I converted to EVA and duotight.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/duotight-pushin-fitting-8-mm-516-58-fpt.html

 

[Michele Craft]

Thanks all! I'm going to try to do some digging tonite and may put up a shopping list since I don't want to order a bunch of stuff and have it be wrong. I planned on having 4 taps at 2 different pressures and am debating if I need a standard aluminum manifold or if with the duotight fittings and some quarter turn duotight shut offs if I could just build a manifold that way for a heck of a lot less.

 

[apache_brew]

I’ll add my $.02. Agree with the 4mm EVA for everything. Being that you’re starting from scratch, and want to serve Sanke and homebrew, go with 1/4 flare fittings everywhere (no barbs).

AliExpress is great for sourcing a lot of the mass produced homebrew equipment SHFC Precision Machinery Factory Store
SHFC Precision Machinery Factory Store I’ve only purchased from this seller 3 times and had no problems, just took a little longer for shipping.

Regarding sankey D to ball lock, I wouldn’t recommend the ball lock adapter caps IslandLizard suggested. I have them and they’re ok, but the gaskets sometimes leak/unseat, and they’re held together with a spring clip which makes disassembly and proper cleaning difficult. Go with MFL tailpieces that screw onto your couplers
US $3.75 6％ Off | Sanke Coupler to MFL Tailpiece Kit 304Stainless Steel Commercial Keg convert to Homebrew Kegging
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Williams Brewing is a great source for everything EVA barrier and Duotight. DuoTight 8mm System

Unless you splurge on stainless ball lock connectors, get CMB German ones.

If you have an even amount of taps, you can clean them all at once externally with a pump/basin system and these ball lock jumper posts
US $1.87 6％ Off | Ball Lock Jumper Stainless Steel 304 Ball Lock Keg Quick Disconnect Jumper Post for Cleaning
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If you don’t have regulator parts, look at Taprite. Being that you’re not homebrewing, you only need a single regulator on the tank so you’re running a single line into the keezer. From there, tie into your first manifold(higher pressure) and then add on secondary regulators inside mounted on the collar for lower pressures.

 

[Michele Craft]

Ok, I'd like to please revive this thread because I'm at a stage where I have the keezer build well underway and need to think about the mechanicals. For reference, I put a collar on the freezer I'm using but ONLY to add height. I won't be using the freezer's lid and am going to build my own split lid. The 4 taps will be in black iron pipe. 2 flanges in the stationary part of the lid, riser legs with a union in the middle on each side in case things have to come apart, connected by 4 ts and nipples between them). I think I have the space to keep the front part of the lid (the part you take off to load kegs) to about 11" wide which should be enough space to drop them in but if I can make it wider I will, just don't want the taps back too far. The drip tray will have a glass rinser so I plan to send the water in and drain out through the collar. I plan to run pipe foam up into the 2" black iron pipe to help with condensation/warming. Building a cabinet around 3 sides on a rolling dolly tho with the split lid the idea is that we don't have to pull it out to change kegs.

That all being said, I have no idea what I need for the innards. I read all your helpful posts and I'm confused as h%ll. I have taps (perlick ss) and these shanks (needed short ones because of the black iron).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EVI92AU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I know I need the following but I don't know EXACTLY what:
1.) Line for beer and CO2 (based on above 4mm EVA but not sure on how much line I might need, tho from what I read less than I'd need with the other line)
2.) Connectors for shank (1/4 flare fittings? but not sure I'm looking for and if they'd even fit given my black pipe etc. Figuring it might be easier there to attach with hose clamps at the shank? tho if these that were suggested above would work I'll gladly do it Duotight Push-In Fitting - 8 mm (5/16 in.) x Female Beer Thread | MoreBeer)
3.) Connectors for shank to keg coupler (want to be able to do sankey and one for home brew keg)
4.) CO2 tank
5.) Manifold (maybe 2? in case I want to run 2 different pressures
6.) Connections for tank to manifold
7.) Connections for manifold to lines
8.) Gauges for CO2 tank and manifolds
9.) Connections for gas lines to kegs
10.) Some kind of damp rid/kitty litter dehumidifier type setup
11.) Temp controller for freezer, for this I already have an inkbird controller which I've tested and works ok
12.) A fan to circulate air in the freezer (and maybe somehow up into black iron pipe)

I may at some point want to run a stout tap so I know that means changing the gas (also a good reason for a 2nd manifold) and also the taps.

Would anyone be so kind as to help me form a shopping cart so to speak?

thanks in advance!!

 

[IslandLizard]

2.) Connectors for shank (1/4 flare fittings? but not sure I'm looking for and if they'd even fit given my black pipe etc.

I'd say those shanks aren't going to work inside tap towers and such, due to the tight space constrictions. Your cast iron pipe is no different, most likely even a tighter space due to the 2" round profile inside (Most tap towers are at least 3" diameter inside). Don't forget, your tubing attached to the barb extends that back projection by another inch or 2, it needs that additional space to make a bend. Even a 90° JG adapter need extra space.

You'd probably need short shanks with a 90 degree barb attached, as they use in tap towers. Or perhaps something even tighter.

10.) Some kind of damp rid/kitty litter dehumidifier type setup

Use an EVA Dry!

 

[Michele Craft]

I'd say those shanks aren't going to work inside tap towers and such, due to the tight space constrictions. Your cast iron pipe is no different, most likely even a tighter space due to the 2" round profile inside (Most tap towers are at least 3" diameter inside). Don't forget, your tubing attached to the barb extends that back projection by another inch or 2, it needs that additional space to make a bend. Even a 90° JG adapter need extra space.

You'd probably need short shanks with a 90 degree barb attached, as they use in tap towers. Or perhaps something even tighter.

Use an EVA Dry!

That shank showed up on a few builds here with the 2" black iron which is why I went with it, seems like it'll work on dry fit as it doesn't extend much beyond the T part at all. I couldn't find a single one that was that short AND had a 90 and I think at that length, the 90 would have you still in the branch of the T itself.

 

[IslandLizard]

That shank showed up on a few builds here with the 2" black iron which is why I went with it, seems like it'll work on dry fit as it doesn't extend much beyond the T part at all. I couldn't find a single one that was that short AND had a 90 and I think at that length, the 90 would have you still in the branch of the T itself.

Ah, sorry, I didn't realize you're using Ts at the faucet outlets. Makes sense.

 

[Michele Craft]

Working on the shopping list and wondering about something. 4 taps, so my plan is to have a split off the CO2 tank that has 3 gauges, one for tank pressure, one to each manifold figuring 2 manifolds so I could have different pressures if I need to. Does that make sense? I assume I'd have to change things up if I wanted to do stout? Maybe have that on one of the manifolds and then a different tap?