Can I do a bock-ish beer at ale temps?

[btienk]

I've been searching on here and on Google and I'm not coming up with very good results. I want to brew a bock beer, but I don't have the equipment to lager. I can only do ales. I don't know if there is a name for this specific type of beer (dark, malty, low ibu, and a carmel/toffee taste) and I just don't know it. The best my search has come up with was making a bock beer with ale yeast but still lagering it.

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[GrogNerd]

I did a maibock at ale temperatures earlier this year (correction: early LAST year). did OK at club comp, no one noticed it was an ale

used Jamil's maibock recipe (2 to 1 Pilsner to Munich with a single 60-minute addition of Magnum to get 27 IBU) with WLP060 and fermented in the low 60°s

brewed it in Feb '13, bottled in March, been in the fridge since April. had one 2 weeks ago and the 9 months lagering in the bottle has done some awesomeness to it

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

You might try a bock recipe using a California Lager yeast, used in CA common styles like Anchor. You still should try to keep the ferment in the low 60s to keep it lager-like. It will do OK at slightly higher temps, but cool is better.

 

[rodwha]

It's worth a try. It might not be spot on, but if fermented in the lower spectrum and then "lagered" it might just surprise you. Just use a cleaner yeast and give it plenty of fridge time.

 

[dlester]

Some Lager yeasts will do well at 65° with little diacetyl. However, you are making a beer that will show flaws up front. If you're new to beer brewing, you probably won't notice too much. I've had good luck with Munich Lager at higher temps. However, it's never the same as Lagering temps. You can buy a used freezer for $250-$250, but need a temp controller.

Good luck,

 

[temple240]

I brewed a"bock" with US-05 last week that's been fermenting at 60°F. I don't plan to lager it because my pipeline has run dry. I'll let you know how it turns out in a couple of weeks.

 

[Riot]

Is it cold enough where you live to lager outside? A clean ale yeast in cold storage till the end of February should come out very well. You will have to add yeast if you bottle and it freezes though.

 

[chuckstout]

I agree with thunder chicken, try the California lager strain I believe it's 2112. I good also see using Nottingham or US05 and using 2 packs of well rehydrated yeast fermented at 58-61, if you do all grain probably wouldn't hurt to mash high or do a decocation mash plus ramp up to 68 towards the end of fermentation if bottling to make sure you don't have any bottle bombs, cheers!

 

[drainbamage]

It's definitely doable. Rogue Dead Guy is a maibock brewed as an ale. As others have said, I'd use the SF Lager yeast, although a German altbier strain has good potential as well.

 

[BigFloyd]

Much depends on what the OP considers "ale temps". There's world of difference between upper-50's vs. the 70+*F range.

I've brewed altbier, Dead Guy clone and maibocks (with lager yeast at 48-50*F). Rogue Dead Guy is a delicious amber ale, but it's not like an actual maibock and I don't know why they call it that since they ferment with PacMan. Altbier is an excellent choice and you can do a fairly lager-like one with Nottingham at 55-57*F followed by a 4-5 week cold lagering period at 33-36*F.

Call it what you want, but even if you use the grain bill of a maibock you're still going to be making an ale if you ferment it with ale yeast at ale yeast temps. Fermenting it with a clean ale yeast at the low end of the optimal temp range for that yeast and then cold lagering it for a month will give you the most lager-like result you can get without actually doing a lager.

 

[unionrdr]

I ferment my hybrid lagers with grains & hops typically used in lagers. But I ferment with WL029 "ale/kolsh yeast". It's optimal temp range of 64-69F gives lager-like qualities. I found that when the bottles get 2 weeks in the fridge after winter room temps carbing & conditioning,they have a bit of crispness when served cold. So the WL029 yeast could get you pretty close,ime.

 

[Cider123]

I bet if you used a bock recipe, like from Brewing classic styles, and used an german ale yeast like the alt type you get close to Bock-ish. When you say Bock-ish I thinking you mean a crisp, clear beer. Well, if you follow the above, then use finings and allow it to sit in a cold keg for a few weeks, you'll get close enough to satisfy what your looking for. Now, would it impress a lager afficionado or a BJCP judge? probably not.
You probably have read the prior posts on how a lager differs from a clean, crisp ale and noticed what I have. The area is very gray. Folks explain away with talks of different processes, temps and yeasts used. But in the end you can get an ale that is more like a lager, than some lagers are to each other. You'll still be open to the snotty comments, like "It good, but it's just not a lager".

And BTW, from what you describe you are looking for in a beer, many of those characteristics can be found in a Scottish ale, like a wee heavy.

 

[Riot]

What's the coldest you can keep it stable for the ferment? That will determine the best case yeast choice as much as anything

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,ferment temp is the biggest determining factor.

 

[markstache]

I'm currently reading Phil Markowski's "Farmhouse Ales" book. His description of the biere de garde process sounds similar to what you want to do: low temp ale yeast fermentation followed by several weeks to a few months of larger temp aging ("guarding"). Might be worth seeing what yeasts people are using for this type of brewing.

 

[unionrdr]

Those are saisons. They're brewed a bit different than others,but might be worth a shot if he likes those barnyard flavors.

 

[drainbamage]

I'm currently reading Phil Markowski's "Farmhouse Ales" book. His description of the biere de garde process sounds similar to what you want to do: low temp ale yeast fermentation followed by several weeks to a few months of larger temp aging ("guarding"). Might be worth seeing what yeasts people are using for this type of brewing.

Did you mean larger (higher?) temp aging, or lager temp aging? French and Belgian farmhouse ales develop some funky flavors that would be way out of place in a bock.

 

[MikeBTexas]

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_452_42_166&products_id=367

I brewed this exact one and is excellent. It's an Ale and has very good malt taste. To me it is a lot like Shiner Bock in taste.

 

[Pie_Man]

From a BJCP style perspective, a bock-like ale could be a Dusseldorf Altbier, http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style07.php#1c, depending on your recipe and end result. They are rare here in the US. Alt, in German means old, refering to the old style of brewing, i.e. ales versus lagers, and not the fact the beer itself is old.

Here are some potential ideas for a recipe/guidance:
http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/jamils-dusseldorf-altbier
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/lets-talk-altbier-111356/

You may also want to listen to Brewing Network style shows on Dusseldorf Alt for more info. Good luck, let us know what you decide on.

 

[btienk]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I will definitely have to give some of these ideas a try. As of right now I'm limited to a Swamp cooler to lower fermentation temps, and on my last beer I was able to get the temp down to the low 60s. I'm not sure if I could go any lower than that without investing a lot of money in ice.

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[BigFloyd]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I will definitely have to give some of these ideas a try. As of right now I'm limited to a Swamp cooler to lower fermentation temps, and on my last beer I was able to get the temp down to the low 60s. I'm not sure if I could go any lower than that without investing a lot of money in ice.

Some folks like to use frozen water bottles instead of ice. If you hard freeze several ahead of time, you can keep rotating a few of them from tub and back to the freezer once they thaw.

The crucial time to keep it on the cool side is the first 4-5 days. After that, it's actually good to let it slowly warm up towards the upper end of the optimal temp range for the yeast you are using.

 

[markstache]

Did you mean larger (higher?) temp aging, or lager temp aging? French and Belgian farmhouse ales develop some funky flavors that would be way out of place in a bock.

"Lager." Sorry.

 

[amie]

I live in an apartment right now, so this isn't possible for me... but I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has tried using homesteader root cellar techniques to lager...

https://www.google.com/search?q=mother+earth+news+root+cellar

 

[brewbama]

I brewed a"bock" with US-05 last week that's been fermenting at 60°F. I don't plan to lager it because my pipeline has run dry. I'll let you know how it turns out in a couple of weeks.

How did it turn out? I want to do a Maibock in my basement (no lager capability). I plan to use Wyeast 2112 (CA common).

My alternative plan is a German Alt.