Can I bottle this?

[Dynachrome]

Seems bordering non seqitur but pretty sure you want to use heat. Fermcap is an anti-foam agent (not something I've ever found any use for). I'd bring to 170-180F and pour into fermenter immediately.

Yeah, I'm not in to the additives - figured I had the wrong item - Should have used my Google-foo,,,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campden_tablet

 

[gometz]

The pre-boil souring is something I have been thinking about. I like a little more sourness than most brett beers give off, and so my plan is to sour about a gallon over a week, pasteurize and add it to 3 gallons Kolsch after secondary with brett and let it sit for 3-4 months. Haven't completed all of the research yet and haven't had time to do it, but I hope to next month. Good to hear someone actually using this method.

 

[fearwig]

That plan sounds solid, but taste as you go, both when souring your gallon and when mixing. Lacto moves quick, at least for me--and there could be some grosser bugs following right behind it. The pre-boil sours I made just keep growing on me, though, it's a really clean acidity.

 

[gometz]

I haven't decided if I want to do a 'natural' souring using grain or buy myself the bugs from WL or Wyeast. But I do plan on boiling the wort that will be used.
How did you do your souring?

 

[fearwig]

Accidentally, wild. Thought I could get away with setting 10gal of unboiled wort in my kitchen for 36-48 hours post mash, in covered buckets (I say 36-48 because it was finally boiled in two batches, first batch was less tart). I'm pretty sure the lacto source was the original grains. I mashed out at 170F but that didn't kill it, anyway.

Either way I plan to recreate it eventually by doing it just like that, or possibly by souring the grains, which I figure might have some positive effect on efficiency and maybe malt flavor extraction. Might make for a gross mash day.

The perceived acidity is roughly like hard lemonade, real pH is probably somewhat higher than that since the sugar balance is obviously different. I didn't have a meter then, didn't test it. I'm sure you could do it with a culture, too, but I think as long as you don't do an extended souring you aren't going to have a really strong adverse flavor from whatever gets into it naturally. I would be a little leery of your one-week souring plan just because I don't know what would start growing in raw wort after a week, but I think the pH is going to go down to a point where you are happy with it rather quickly.

 

[gometz]

Part of my plan was to hop the site worry to 5 IBU, let it sour, then latitude at 170, do a hop stand at 140-150 to 20 IBU, then cool and add. Lacto apparently can't handle much above 10 IBU.

 

[jdib444]

Just an update. I decided to go ahead and bottle this beer with a slightly lower than normal amount of priming sugar and some raspberry flavoring. After about two weeks the carbonation is somewhat low, but the raspberry and slight sour taste actually work pretty well together. All in all I think this beer was not only saved but will end up being a very good beer. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Just an update. I decided to go ahead and bottle this beer with a slightly lower than normal amount of priming sugar and some raspberry flavoring. After about two weeks the carbonation is somewhat low, but the raspberry and slight sour taste actually work pretty well together. All in all I think this beer was not only saved but will end up being a very good beer. Thanks for the help guys.

Thanks for the update and congrats on the beer! Sounds like you got an infection worth getting

 

[prohl84]

I am constantly amazed at the amount of people who seem to like the taste of infected beer.

I like yogurt- it is like eating infected milk. Sour beers are the same thing.

[rant]Call me a Word Nazzy but I hate the term 'infected' when applied to beer because it is not an infection- it's technically contaminated but neither word sounds like something I want to drink. There's just an organism other than S. cerevisiae in your beer and there is a good chance are it is better for you- probiotically speaking than 'uninfected' beer.

I am not trying to be an *******- this has become a major pet peeve for me lately and I am surprised by the number of brewers who still use this inaccurate and misleading term to describe wild fermentation. It makes it sound like it's somehow inferior or even toxic. Admittedly I even still use it sometimes...[/rant] :smack:

Glad the OP is satisfied with the result- that is what counts!

 

[TheHairyHop]

I like yogurt- it is like eating infected milk. Sour beers are the same thing.

[rant]Call me a Word Nazzy but I hate the term 'infected' when applied to beer because it is not an infection- it's technically contaminated but neither word sounds like something I want to drink. There's just an organism other than S. cerevisiae in your beer and there is a good chance are it is better for you- probiotically speaking than 'uninfected' beer.

I am not trying to be an *******- this has become a major pet peeve for me lately and I am surprised by the number of brewers who still use this inaccurate and misleading term to describe wild fermentation. It makes it sound like it's somehow inferior or even toxic. Admittedly I even still use it sometimes...[/rant] :smack:

Glad the OP is satisfied with the result- that is what counts!

infected or contaminated is entirely appropriate if an organism is living in your beer that you never intended to

 

[prohl84]

infected or contaminated is entirely appropriate if an organism is living in your beer that you never intended to

In the biological sense I do not believe infection is appropriate because it deals with pathogens. In beer nothing is actually getting attacked- it's competition among microorganisms not pathology. I agree contamination is always appropriate when it is unintentional- I would absolutely use either term when applied to mold, mildew or anything really undesirable in your beer.

When it's a drinkable sour, accidental or not I prefer the term wild or spontaneous fermentation because it is far less discouraging to people who may be willing to give it a try if they know it won't hurt them. Even if I sound like a jerk off ATM (I'll go on youtubes if I really need to troll somebody ) I really would like to prevent new and new-ish brewers from dumping a whole batch they might enjoy just because terminology implies there is something wrong with it.

Thankfully a good number of brewers do exactly what the OP did and start a thread just like this one and receive valuable advice which leads them to a successful beer.

Also like to apologize for derailing the end of the thread.... I only recently began liking sours anyway; don't know why I am nitpicking their associated terminology so adamantly. Cheers everybody!

 

[fearwig]

In the biological sense I do not believe infection is appropriate because it deals with pathogens. In beer nothing is actually getting attacked- it's competition among microorganisms not pathology.

"Man, this ebola is sure competing with my intestines!"

I think infection is pretty accurate. There is an unfortunate habit among homebrewers of maintaining a kind of blind optimism about infection, especially with other people's beer. Aged poop tastes like poop. You can maybe, maybe inadvisably come back from an infection, if you kill it and repitch quick, and wild flavors can turn out OK in certain styles, but when someone posts "My summit DIPA has purple hair, is it going to be OK?" and everyone responds "YES, put it in a bucket for ten years who knows just do it!!"--I mean it starts to sound more like a dare than advice, doesn't it?

 

[TheHairyHop]

"Man, this ebola is sure competing with my intestines!"

I think infection is pretty accurate. There is an unfortunate habit among homebrewers of maintaining a kind of blind optimism about infection, especially with other people's beer. Aged poop tastes like poop. You can maybe, maybe inadvisably come back from an infection, if you kill it and repitch quick, and wild flavors can turn out OK in certain styles, but when someone posts "My summit DIPA has purple hair, is it going to be OK?" and everyone responds "YES, put it in a bucket for ten years who knows just do it!!"--I mean it starts to sound more like a dare than advice, doesn't it?

Well hey, in this case it worked out. Lesson is to taste before you age

 

[TylerAI]

"Man, this ebola is sure competing with my intestines!"

I think infection is pretty accurate. There is an unfortunate habit among homebrewers of maintaining a kind of blind optimism about infection, especially with other people's beer. Aged poop tastes like poop. You can maybe, maybe inadvisably come back from an infection, if you kill it and repitch quick, and wild flavors can turn out OK in certain styles, but when someone posts "My summit DIPA has purple hair, is it going to be OK?" and everyone responds "YES, put it in a bucket for ten years who knows just do it!!"--I mean it starts to sound more like a dare than advice, doesn't it?

I think it is more of an issue of dealing with what you have and trying to improvise and adapt. A glass half full thing. If you prefer to brew to a specific recipe to achieve a specific result, and will not tolerate otherwise, then you should dump an odd flavor and cut your losses. I am a tweaker. My curiosity makes me wonder what will happen if. It's an investment in time, but maybe the first person to discover beer did the same thing. He decided to wait and see.

 

[prohl84]

My accidental sour tasted better than a few of my uncontaminated brews. As far as "blind" optimism is concerned I saw the lacto w/ my eyes but I used my tongue to pass final judgment. Only batch I've ever had to pitch had a rancid hazelnut oil slick on top- that one I did not have to taste first.

I do agree that bugs are a crapshoot. The Belgians were making lambics and whatnot spontaneously long before microbiology existed.

Contaminated beer server: "This Baby Butt Brown Ale has a delightfully subtle enteric bocquet from the wild bacteria that live on our equipment."
Beer drinker: "Where's the nearest Brewpub from here?"