Can homebrew ever equal microbrew quality ?

[dimmy32]

I love microbrew beer, and the challenge to to equal or best it, in terms of taste, quality.
Using only simple plastic fermenters, basic equipment...is it possible to succeed ??

99 % of all homebrew I've tried never quite beats microbrew, imo.

 

[phenry]

Yes. All it is is just extracting sugars from grain, boiling hops, fermentation via yeast, and carbonation/conditioning. Microbreweries just do it on a larger scale.

 

[stratslinger]

Truthfully, most of those microbreweries emply master brewers who have a lot more training and a lot more experience than most of us have here - this is what they do for a living, so they better be good at it!

That said, it is absolutely possible to meet or exceed their quality - it just takes time to build up your skillset to the point that you can reliably do so.

 

[RoadKing]

Better!
Especially if you go all grain, good yeast, good water and control
fermentation temps.

 

[Tinga]

I don't know the homebrew you've been drinking but often if you have good techniques you can easily make a better beer than a micro brew. You can't get fresher beer than the stuff you make yourself.

 

[Yooper]

I've had some terrible homebrews, but I've also had some terrible microbrews!

I think it's absolutely possible, and I'm a big critic! One thing that helps is you can create a beer geared to your taste. If you taste a microbrew you like, you can still pick out something you'd change. For example, I'll enjoy a beer but then say, "Hmmm, I think I'd like this better if there was a citrusy note on the end and there was a stronger malt backbone" and then go home and recreate the beer the way I want. That's one great advantage to making your own!

The thing is, it doesn't happen by accident. Close attention to yeast pitching rates, fermentation temperature, water, ingredients, and process make all the difference!

 

[AR-Josh]

I've had some terrible homebrews, but I've also had some terrible microbrews!

I think it's absolutely possible, and I'm a big critic! One thing that helps is you can create a beer geared to your taste. If you taste a microbrew you like, you can still pick out something you'd change. For example, I'll enjoy a beer but then say, "Hmmm, I think I'd like this better if there was a citrusy note on the end and there was a stronger malt backbone" and then go home and recreate the beer the way I want. That's one great advantage to making your own!

The thing is, it doesn't happen by accident. Close attention to yeast pitching rates, fermentation temperature, water, ingredients, and process make all the difference!

The one in red is the biggest one in my opinion. That one is so over looked or not even considered. I know I ignored it for my first brew and as a result I could not even drink it. My beer got noticeably better in the winter and then started getting funny again in the spring. I connected the dots and built a fermentation chamber.

The other items listed are important too and I'm sure I'll run into one of those at some point. For the most part, most of the posts I read in this forum are about off flavours that result from a warm fermentation.

Micro-brewers have all of those items listed down pat. It is just part of the procedure for cranking out beer for them. That is at least something to aspire to.

 

[frydogbrews]

on saturday we went on a beer sampling to 6 different small breweries in st louis. tried sample sizes of more than 40 different flavors. the single hopped citra i poured out of my keezer before going downtown was in the top three of beers i drank all day.
the reason was simple. it wasn't a fancy beer, but it was brewed to exactly my tastes. many of the brews we tried that day were super yeast forward (i don't like that) or malty as all hell (i don't like that), i like hops, lots and lots and lots of hops; and screaming high ABV too.
so i guess it depends on opinion, but with proper attention to technique and a little practice, it is fairly easy to make a beer that you will enjoy more than a profesionally made one. (see how i didn't actually say it was better.) as somebody else mentioned, especially with a hoppy beer, freshness matters a ton!

 

[Darkblade]

I've tasted some crap home brews also but now know that's probably coz low cost ingredients were used &/or too much water used to maximize return. Coupled with poor skills all leads to crap beer.
I am VERY much an amateur but have made a very nice high % stout using better quality ingredients, extra malt & dextrose than recipe called for. Used 2litres less water & have a really nice (for me) thick, edible stout. I like it & that's all that matters to me.
Am I going to put microbrewers out of work? I doubt it. But there must be far better home brewers out there than me.

 

[tjs3]

As stratslinger said, these guys are pros. So they should have a lot more experience...BUT...

I assume that with some practice, following a recipe correctly should yield some good results... Its like the difference between a chef and an amateur cook. The chef comes up with these butt kickin recipes...the cook just follows along.

That being said, my very first batch of homebrew is still fermenting..Just joined this forum(hi!)...so I could be wrong?

 

[beergolf]

I've had some terrible homebrews, but I've also had some terrible microbrews!

I think it's absolutely possible, and I'm a big critic! One thing that helps is you can create a beer geared to your taste. If you taste a microbrew you like, you can still pick out something you'd change. For example, I'll enjoy a beer but then say, "Hmmm, I think I'd like this better if there was a citrusy note on the end and there was a stronger malt backbone" and then go home and recreate the beer the way I want. That's one great advantage to making your own!

The thing is, it doesn't happen by accident. Close attention to yeast pitching rates, fermentation temperature, water, ingredients, and process make all the difference!

Yooper pretty much says it all. I have tasted some OK but not great home brews and I have tasted some excellent homebrews.

I like being able to make a beer that I like. The best part of homebrewing is creating recipes. I have a couple that I like and all of my friends really like. They started out as simple recipes that I tweaked until they are just what I want.

Pay attention to details and you can make great beer with minimal equipment. Fermentation temp control is a big factor as are the others that Yooper mentioned.

 

[RobWalker]

Totally. Have you seen some of the beers on here? They look fricking amazing.

 

[dimmy32]

reason I'm asking, is one of my home brew friends wants to buy one of those massive copper kettles and other professional brewing equipment.
He seems convinced better equipment will produce better quality beer....
less chance of any oxidation , more tighter control over temperature ( stovetop temp control is variable ) .

 

[Yooper]

reason I'm asking, is one of my home brew friends wants to buy one of those massive copper kettles and other professional brewing equipment.
He seems convinced better equipment will produce better quality beer....
less chance of any oxidation , more tighter control over temperature ( stovetop temp control is variable ) .

That's probably not going to help, to be honest. If you can't make a great beer on the stovetop, expensive equipment will not improve it. I've tasted fabulous beers out of a bucket set up.

The techniques really are key here, not the equipment, unless you have a stove that can't reach a boil or a major equipment issue like that.

 

[IffyG]

reason I'm asking, is one of my home brew friends wants to buy one of those massive copper kettles and other professional brewing equipment.
He seems convinced better equipment will produce better quality beer....
less chance of any oxidation , more tighter control over temperature ( stovetop temp control is variable ) .

Tell him to buy a mini fridge and a temp controller. That single change to my system yielded the greatest increase in quality, taking my homebrew from being drinkable to being better than most of what I can buy at the grocery store.

 

[weirdboy]

If one of those things your friend is considering is better fermentation temperature control, that will help vs no control. But I have been using an Igloo cooler filled with water and ice bottles to control temps in my fermenter for a few years and it works extremely well, so it's not necessary by any stretch to use "professional" equipment to get the results you want.

 

[dimmy32]

Tell him to buy a mini fridge and a temp controller. That single change to my system yielded the greatest increase in quality, taking my homebrew from being drinkable to being better than most of what I can buy at the grocery store.

I assume you use this to put your primary fermenter in ?
what sort of temps are optimal for ales ? ( I realize lagers need much cooler temps )

 

[IffyG]

Yeah, I put my primary (and only) fermentation vessel into the minifridge and set an appropriate temperature for whatever yeast I'm using. It try to keep the beer at about 62* F during active fermentation and then cold crash at about 40* to get the yeast out before I keg. In addition to having control over the fermentation of ales, it's going to make brewing a lager as easy as lowering the temp of the fridge.

Also as mentioned above any method of temp control is going to be better than no control at all, but I'm lazy and would much rather spend 100 some odd bucks to have something I can set and forget. If your friend has the time to putz around with trial and error with a cooler and ice bottles, have him give that a try.

 

[pedroims]

I brewed my first batch 6 weeks ago, I opened a beer last Sunday after 20 days on bottles, wow , I almost cry: great color, clean, aroma and flavor. Love it. I pour three samples ( two micro beers and mine) and give them to a friend, he could not tell which one was mine

 

[theonetrueruss]

Yes,

To make top quality beer you need 6 things:

1) proper sanitation
2) fermentation temp control
3) good yeast pitching rates
4) proper aeration of wort
5) repeatable processes (take notes)
6) good recipe and consistent water


None of these have to be terribly expensive and can easily be done at home. If you focus on these things you will eventually be producing great beer. I know my beer has continued to improve with this as a focus and I expect to continue improving. I believe I am finally at the point where my recipes and water are where I need to focus. Trying to get into the simple is better mindset (more different ingredients does not equal better beer).

 

[Tinga]

the key to good beer is consistency and being able to change one variable at a time until you have your process down. Some set ups can eliminate variability more than others.

 

[LVBen]

Are you kidding? Of course homebrews can be better! Not only can homebrews be better, but homebrews are usually taken care of better than microbrews that sit on warm shelves for months.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I unfortunately have to disagree with Yoop. I absolutely think that improved equipment translates to improved results. Tighter control tolerances and better sanitation along with improved processes translates to more consistent, accurate, and quality product IME. For example, adding an oxigination system and yeast lab will improve your chances of attaining ideal fermentation conditions. Temperature controlled fermentation will improve and allow you to positively control fermentaion characteristics. The list is nearly endless IMO and they almost all make a differnce.

That said, yes you can make pro quality beer at home, it just doesn't happen that often (again IME) and is difficult to do.

 

[stratslinger]

reason I'm asking, is one of my home brew friends wants to buy one of those massive copper kettles and other professional brewing equipment.
He seems convinced better equipment will produce better quality beer....
less chance of any oxidation , more tighter control over temperature ( stovetop temp control is variable ) .

I know Yooper's said it already, but I've gotta agree with her: Equipment does not make beer - brewers do. Actually, strictly speaking, brewers make wort, and yeast makes beer.

Now, if you're doing partial boils on the stove top, you can definitely glean some improvement simply by stepping up to a turkey fryer (or similar) and a 7+ gallon (10 gallon's great if you've got the room!) pot and boiling your full volume. But that's a far cry from any kind of professional equipment. And why copper? At the volumes we work with, stainless steel is great, as is properly prepped aluminum - and I'd guess both are cheaper.

If he really wants to invest money in some brewing toys in a way that will help his beer, a few people have already pointed out the single best investment he could make: fermentation temperature control. See above, where I said yeast make beer? Well, brewers have a role beyond feeding them wort - we have to give them the best environment possible in which to do their work. Fermentation temperature control can have huge benefits to your beers - and your friend's money will be better spent on this that it will on fancy copper kettles.

 

[Shooter]

Hmm, it's kind of already been said, disagreed with, restated and argued to this point. People are pointing you in the right direction I think with temperature control equipment. Sanitation goes without saying, but after that, temperature control is key. I would probably argue yeast health/pitching rate next. Better equipment is nice, but I think you get diminishing return with investment. I make some nice beers on my all-grain setup, but made a partial mash, partial boil mild on my stove top a few months back and wasn't expecting much from it. I pitched healthy yeast, controlled the temps and ended up with a beer that was pretty danged good, and far better than anything I brewed in my first few months of brewing.

 

[rodisian]

Absolutely-homebrew can be as good as, if not better than microbrew (or "majorbrew", for that matter). It can also be much, much worse. Of course, there's also fallacy in that conceptual comparison: there is no standard "microbrew" quality. (and that's even more true for homebrew)

The homebrews that we've all had probably fall along a wider distribution of quality, since we have no QC department, we brew once a week/month instead of every day, and we tend to be hobbyists rather than pros, who tend to be formally trained, even if they didn't start off that way. Plus there is a market dynamic in the microbrew space: while a mediocre homebrew may continue to be consumed for 30, 40, 50 pints, whereas a mediocre microbrew won't be purchased again, you'll tell your friends not to buy it, etc. You may not have the opportunity to sample the lower end of the microbrew spectrum as the weaker attempts fail faster.

Plus, we do have some advantages that brewers don't have.. fewer cost pressures (besides SWMBO, but I wont lose my job if I am low on my efficiency numbers time after time), timing, control, etc. (I like maltier, less bitter beers. So I tend to tweak recipes in ways that tone down the bitterness slightly, or maybe shift the hops from earlier to later in the boil as I'd prefer to gain flavor/aroma than bitterness. Control is fun!)

So relax and have a homebrew. Some of yours and others will be better than certain microbrews, and some won't.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Absolutely. It takes a lot of work and time (pitching rates, fermentation temp control, etc), but it can certainly be done.

 

[Homercidal]

Better equipment won't get you better beer unless you know how to use it. And a Homebrewer who knows what to do can make beer every bit as good as a good Microbrewer with very little equipment.

Most equipment upgrades that cost real money are really for convenience.

 

[mredge73]

I agree with Homercidal.
Most of my equipment upgrades are for convenience. They have only improve the process slightly but cut down on my workload (and downtime) during a brew-day considerably.

 

[dimmy32]

well, my friend wants better quality, but also larger volumes than the usual 23 L. buckets. This part, I understand.
Why copper ?
The guy is a doctor and makes a lot of cash. I suspect he wants something to show off in his basement.

Logically, if you take the same recipe, same brewer, and use different equipment, better equipment will give better results.
I think the guy will be dissapointed a bit , when his beer doesnt taste THAT much better...but as we all know, making beer is part skill and part luck.