Can chlorine get through an RO system

[h22lude]

I have this system from Buckeye (http://www.buckeyehydro.com/premium-ro-systems/)

I keep getting the same off flavor in my beers. I've tried to fix everything I thought it could be. I cleaned everything well with PBW soak. I used straight O2 for a few minutes to aerate. I just checked me STC temp control and it was only off by .2°C. I ferment around 65°F for most beers. I've changed buckets. I did have an issue with my mash pump creating bubbles on the outlet which I thought would add O2 during mashing. I fixed that issue and still have the off flavor. I do add ions back using gypsum and CaCl but I got this same flavor with an extract using my RO water so it isn't the salt additions. I either rehydrate yeast or make a starter.

The last piece is the water. I am using that RO system and 1/2 campden tablet so I wouldn't think anything would get through (especially chlorine or chloramine)....but is it possible there is still something in my water causing this issue? My next batch I'm going to buy RO water. I feel like my process has spot on. Only thing left is the water or ingredients but the ingredients I get from different places.

 

[skidmark]

It's possible if the carbon block has cracked, allowing chlorinated water through.

Tell us about your sanitation regime?

 

[ba-brewer]

To remove chlorine and chloramine you need a long contact time with the carbon. Normally requires two carbon stages and a slow flow rate.

If you are adding Camden than that should take care of what would make it through.

 

[h22lude]

It's possible if the carbon block has cracked, allowing chlorinated water through.

Tell us about your sanitation regime?

Sanitize everything post boil with either Iodophor or StarSan (both made with my RO water). Same with kegging. I fill my kegs all the way to the top with StarSan and move it around inside. I push it all out with CO2 and then fill the keg through the beer out post to eliminate most of the O2.

For the RO water for brewing, I let it sit out overnight but use the campden tablet right before brewing. I think I read campden turns chloramine into chlorine and ammonia. Does that chlorine leave the water quickly or does that take awhile? Maybe I need to use campden the night before.

 

[skidmark]

Have you identified the off flavor? Is it like drinking from a vinyl garden hose, or taste like Band-Aids smell?

 

[h22lude]

To remove chlorine and chloramine you need a long contact time with the carbon. Normally requires two carbon stages and a slow flow rate.

If you are adding Camden than that should take care of what would make it through.

This has a sediment filter, carbon filter and RO membrane. I probably get 1 gallon per 30 minutes.

I would think so too but maybe using campden right before mashing in is the problem (though I think most people do it that way). The way I understand it, campden turns chloramine into chlorine and ammonia. Maybe I'm not giving my water enough time to dissipate the chlorine after using the campden tablet.

Have you identified the off flavor? Is it like drinking from a vinyl garden hose, or taste like Band-Aids smell?

No I can't figure it out. I have had about 5 or 6 other people try it (LHBS owner, chemist/brewer, judge, head brewer) and I have gotten 10 different answers.


I've been trying a few things to see what I can figure out about the flavor. I heated a small amount for 5 seconds. I get a very hot sensation. Not temp hot lol alcohol hot. The beer is 8.3% so it is a little on the higher side but this is hot on the back of my throat. To my knowledge, this comes for a high fermentation temp. I wonder if my STC is screwing up during fermentation. One thing I have noticed is when I take my bucket out of the ferm fridge, the reading on the STC goes up. I tape the probe to the side and use a few layers of bubble wrap and a face cloth to insulate. I did just check it and I was only getting .2°C off. Maybe the STC isn't reading properly all the time.

 

[ba-brewer]

This has a sediment filter, carbon filter and RO membrane. I probably get 1 gallon per 30 minutes.

I would think so too but maybe using campden right before mashing in is the problem (though I think most people do it that way). The way I understand it, campden turns chloramine into chlorine and ammonia. Maybe I'm not giving my water enough time to dissipate the chlorine after using the campden tablet.

.

Camden reduces it to chloride not chlorine. I believe it works pretty quick but I think they say 5min to be safe.

If you have chloramine you need two carbon filters, one a block and one a chloramine reducing filter(GAC I believe). flow rate includes the waste or rejected water too.


The article below has some good information.

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/removing_chloramines_from_water

 

[day_trippr]

Perhaps making a one gallon extract beer using store-bought water could provide the quickest path to diagnosis...

Cheers!

 

[lump42]

Perhaps making a one gallon extract beer using store-bought water could provide the quickest path to diagnosis...

Cheers!

Or follow all your normal brew day routines, but with store bought RO water. That way you only change one variable at a time. Same equipment, same procedure, same water additions, just swap out the water.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

RO will not do much for chlorine or chloramine. Order a filter element that will fit your tubes that is a carbon filter (maybe a 5 or 10 micron with carbon for the second stage, after a 20 or 30 micron first filter

Try to throttle the flow through the carbon to less than 1/2 gallon per minute. The more time the water spends on the carbon the more chlorine is removed, but their must be flow, not just sitting on it.

 

[h22lude]

Camden reduces it to chloride not chlorine. I believe it works pretty quick but I think they say 5min to be safe.

If you have chloramine you need two carbon filters, one a block and one a chloramine reducing filter(GAC I believe). flow rate includes the waste or rejected water too.


The article below has some good information.

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/removing_chloramines_from_water

I keep reading ammonium and chlorine. Wonder how many people get that wrong?

But wouldn't campden take care of chloramine anyway? So even if my RO filter doesn't, the 1/2 tablet should.

Perhaps making a one gallon extract beer using store-bought water could provide the quickest path to diagnosis...

Cheers!

Or follow all your normal brew day routines, but with store bought RO water. That way you only change one variable at a time. Same equipment, same procedure, same water additions, just swap out the water.

Yeah I think my next plan is to buy store bought RO for everything (starter and brew day).

RO will not do much for chlorine or chloramine. Order a filter element that will fit your tubes that is a carbon filter (maybe a 5 or 10 micron with carbon for the second stage, after a 20 or 30 micron first filter

Try to throttle the flow through the carbon to less than 1/2 gallon per minute. The more time the water spends on the carbon the more chlorine is removed, but their must be flow, not just sitting on it.

RO systems have a carbon filter

 

[ajdelange]

I keep reading ammonium and chlorine.

Discard any material that tells you that. Ammonium ion yes; chloride ion, yes; sulfate ion, yes, hydrogen ion, yes; atomic chlorine, no. Chloramine is formed by reactiing ammonium with chlorinated water though.

Wonder how many people get that wrong?

Certainly none that have read the sticky here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=361073

 

[h22lude]

Discard any material that tells you that. Ammonium ion yes; chloride ion, yes; sulfate ion, yes, hydrogen ion, yes; atomic chlorine, no. Chloramine is formed by reactiing ammonium with chlorinated water though.



Certainly none that have read the sticky here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=361073

Maybe that's were a lot of people get misinformed. Ammonium reacting with chlorinated water so they think ammonium and chlorine after using campden.

If my water is really chlorinated or if it has a high level of chloramine, would using it to wash and rinse affect anything?