Bulk priming for bottling

[Banjobrewing]

I have been brewing for a few months now and got a handle on making pretty good beer. The packaging is still a problem sometimes. I keg most of my beer but do like to have bottles to give away and maybe enter comps in the future.

I currently have a Milk Stout in a Fermzilla at 20degrees C and it will stay there for 14 days before I cold crash and package. It is sitting at 12psi at the moment. But this will drop when I cold crash...won't it??

I had planned to transfer the cold product (~4degrees) to a keg and bulk prime before bottling from the keg. How much dextrose per litre will I need to bulk prime the keg before transferring?

 

[NoCornOrRice]

- Psi will drop significantly as temp drops as long as it is not still fermenting.
- I have used 3/4 cup to bulk prime in a 19L keg, however that was a loooong time ago so YMMV
- you could bottle a few points shy of terminal gravity and skip the priming entirely.

 

[Banjobrewing]

- Psi will drop significantly as temp drops as long as it is not still fermenting.
- I have used 3/4 cup to bulk prime in a 19L keg, however that was a loooong time ago so YMMV
- you could bottle a few points shy of terminal gravity and skip the priming entirely.

Thanks, I'm pretty sure Ive reached FG (terminal) and after doing a bit more reading I've decided to degas over a few days then cold crash then use the standard bulk prime calcs before bottling. ~5 gms per litre; which is about the quantity you suggest. My previous attempts at bottling already carbonated product (even with a counter pressure bottler) were not successful...lots of foam and waste and a poorly carbonated product.

 

[mashdar]

Your are correct that the pressure will drop when cold crashing, but the dissolved CO2 will actually increase as headspace CO2 is absorbed into the beer.

Unfortunately, the absorbtion process will take a week. This means it will be harder to accurately estimate the dissolved CO2 already in your beer. You have to account for this when calculating priming sugar, or your beer will be over-carbonated.

You'll also have some issues with foaming, as the bottles etc will be warmer, and CO2 will start leaving solution as the beer warms up.

The BEST solutions are:

1. Look into bottling from a keg. E.g. kegland has a "nukatap counter pressure bottle filler", Blichmann has a "beer gun", etc
2. Consider transferring to a keg after cold crashing, then let the beer warm back up and spund to 2psi (or something low like that) for a week. Then you can prime and bottle without foam issues.

edit: except for big beers (which get bottled en toto), I like to fill ~12 bottles of each batch from the keg. These can be given away, brought to dinners, or kept as samples after the keg kicks.

 

[Banjobrewing]

Your are correct that the pressure will drop when cold crashing, but the dissplved CO2 will actually increase as headspace CO2 is absorbed into the beer.

Unfortunately, the absorbtion process will take a week. This means it will be harder to accurately estimate the dissolved CO2 already in your beer. You have to account for this when calculating priming sugar, or your beer will be over-carbonated.

You'll also have some issues with foaming, as the bottles etc will be warmer, and CO2 will start leaving solution as the beer warms up.

The BEST solutions are:

1. Look into bottling from a keg. E.g. kegland has a "nukatap counter pressure bottle filler", Blichmann has a "beer gun", etc
2. Consider transferring to a keg after cold crashing, then let the beer warm back up and spund to 2psi (or something low like that) for a week. Then you can prime and bottle without foam issues.

This is helpful. Yes will be bottling from a keg. So I'll use your suggestion and spund before I bulk prime

 

[doug293cz]

This is helpful. Yes will be bottling from a keg. So I'll use your suggestion and spund before I bulk prime

Why not just force carb (using bottled CO2 at chart pressure) in the keg, and then bottle from the keg, rather than keg priming? Should be quicker than de-carbonating fully, just to re-carbonate.

Brew on

 

[Banjobrewing]

Why not just force carb (using bottled CO2 at chart pressure) in the keg, and then bottle from the keg, rather than keg priming? Should be quicker than de-carbonating fully, just to re-carbonate.

Brew on

Yes that is an option. However as I mentioned above, I have never had succes with bottling a carbonated product even with a counter pressure bottler. I have used both the Nukatap counter pressure bottle filler and the Williams Warne. I found they were equally messy (foam) and resulted in waste and an inferior product.

 

[mashdar]

Apologies for what may be a silly question, but did you purge and pressurize the bottle prior to filling? The fillers have a trade-off between speed and foaming, which you control via managing bottle pressure.

 

[Banjobrewing]

Apologies for what may be a silly question, but did you purge and pressurize the bottle prior to filling? The fillers have a trade-off between speed and foaming, which you control via managing bottle pressure.

Not a silly question. Yes I did but perhaps my attempts have been faulty in that I have tried to manage the process with the beer flow control rather than the managing the counter pressure. I have not given up on this completely and will give it another go in future. Also I have been reading that increasing the length of the beer line to the bottler, might help. I think it is probably one of those processes where I need to keep trying and applying good prep (ie keeping everything cold, lowering & balancing pressure between keg and co2 source ...and of course being patient.

 

[mashdar]

if bottle pressure matches keg pressure*, you will get no bubbles, but also no flow. Typically you can a get at least a couple PSI with no foaming, but it may be a little slow.

*Assuming keg pressure is at equilibrium with beer vapor pressure, i.e. the pressure the beer "wants ro be at". You may be able to turn up the keg pressure, rather than dropping bottle pressure, to fill faster. If you drop the keg pressure, it will foam even at low flow.

 

[Banjobrewing]

if bottle pressure matches keg pressure*, you will get no bubbles, but also no flow. Typically you can a get at least a couple PSI with no foaming, but it may be a little slow.

*Assuming keg pressure is at equilibrium with beer vapor pressure, i.e. the pressure the beer "wants ro be at". You may be able to turn up the keg pressure, rather than dropping bottle pressure, to fill faster. If you drop the keg pressure, it will foam even at low flow.

Really helpful. Thanks for your support.

 

[doug293cz]

Not a silly question. Yes I did but perhaps my attempts have been faulty in that I have tried to manage the process with the beer flow control rather than the managing the counter pressure. I have not given up on this completely and will give it another go in future. Also I have been reading that increasing the length of the beer line to the bottler, might help. I think it is probably one of those processes where I need to keep trying and applying good prep (ie keeping everything cold, lowering & balancing pressure between keg and co2 source ...and of course being patient.

You should chill the bottles (the colder the better) before trying to fill with carbonated beer. Also, flow should be controlled by pressure differential, not a tap flow control. What works well is to pressurize the bottles to beer pressure, and then slowly bleed pressure from the bottle as you fill. Aim for a slow even fill. Beer line length makes no difference when doing counter-pressure filling correctly.

Brew on

 

[hungupdown]

I bulk prime, in King Kegs. At 125g per 23L, with sugar dissolved in around 300mL water (by heating in microwave).

After stirring in sugar solution. I immediately, transfer around ¼ of each batch to bottles.
Using minimal CO2 pressure, to acheive transfer. Via a hose, just long enough to reach bottom of tallest bottles.

Trying to balance pressure in bottles, sounds like unnecessary hard work.

 

[doug293cz]

Trying to balance pressure in bottles, sounds like unnecessary hard work.

It's actually quite simple to do if you have a counter pressure filler. Even the simple tube and stopper method works almost as well as a counter pressure filler.

Brew on

 

[Banjobrewing]

It's actually quite simple to do if you have a counter pressure filler. Even the simple tube and stopper method works almost as well as a counter pressure filler.

Brew on

Well, I wouldn't describe the process as "actually quite simple" but I guess now that I better understand just what is causing the problems I've been experiencing, I can have another try with some new skills/knowledge. As far as it being "unecessary hard work" I've never thought that anything that results in a better quality product is unecessary. But I appreciate that there are brewers out there who don't really see the point in doing anything more than the basics; and that's ok.

While this thread has being going I have degassed my brew and I'm now cold crashing/clarifying. I will transfer to a keg, bulk prime and bottle my non-carbonated product in a few days.

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice, it hasn't been wasted I will follow up with a plan to bottle a carbonated product for a future brew.
Cheers