bulk buy whoas

[Chriso]

Wish I were closer, I'd love a piece of that buttload, whether it's Imperial or Metric!

 

[Austinhomebrew]

In most any business the key word is efficiency. If a retailer can drop a middleman he'll do it in a New York minute. If he can reduce his cost by locating near a supplier so his shipping costs are reduced he'll do that too. The www is all about efficiency and the business that is the most efficient will dominate.

With the advent of the www the traditional brick and mortar stores are going to have to find ways to adapt or disappear simple as that.

Just like Wal-Mart replaced a lot of local small buisness the www will do the same for more small business while others will adapt and grow. The LHBS's business model has changed they need to recognize that. With forum's like this their expertise is no longer as valuable as it once was. And home brewers wishing to socialize, last minute purchases, spur of the moment purchase, brewers needing this or that in a hurry are all pretty small potatoes and is not IMHO a sound business model.

I like the idea of a LHBS creating a bulk buyers club. Say charge $25 a year and letting the members buy at or near cost. They come in pick up their entire bulk purchase and more than likely spend a few extra $ and leave. 100 members would generate $2500 a year and 100 bags of grain which should create an additional discount for the LHBS from the dist.

In a dynamic economic system I believe it's called creative distruction. Just like pretty much nobody's job is safe (unless you work for the govt.) nobody's business is safe either.

All homebrew stores have to have a brick and mortar store or they are not allowed to sell homebrew supplies.

I am sorry but I can't live on $25 a year so that you can buy what you want at cost. I want free rent and employees that work for free. It's not going to happen.

You are not creating $2500. No one gets that $2500 except the grain distributor. The discount you are referring to if you buy more grain is a penny a pound. A whole 50 cents more per bag. Employees cost 25 cents a minute at a minimum. The extra 50 cents per bag would pay for the employee to load the bag into your truck. At least I would have that covered.

I am going to bow out of this discussion because it is not based on reality at this point.

 

[abracadabra]

All homebrew stores have to have a brick and mortar store or they are not allowed to sell homebrew supplies.

I am sorry but I can't live on $25 a year so that you can buy what you want at cost. I want free rent and employees that work for free. It's not going to happen.

You are not creating $2500. No one gets that $2500 except the grain distributor. The discount you are referring to if you buy more grain is a penny a pound. A whole 50 cents more per bag. Employees cost 25 cents a minute at a minimum. The extra 50 cents per bag would pay for the employee to load the bag into your truck. At least I would have that covered.

I am going to bow out of this discussion because it is not based on reality at this point.

It was just an idea nobody's forcing you to use it. And you are not the only LHBS owner out there that might read this thread.

Geesh what a grouch!

 

[Bellybuster]

haha...reminds me of the time I brought up on an email list the place where one could rent a 20lbs CO2 tank that can be filled for $17 instead of the 5lbs bottle return program at the LHBS for $49 each swap. I was pretty much run off the list due to an LHBS owner being on the list ....it was fun

 

[Chriso]

haha...reminds me of the time I brought up on an email list the place where one could rent a 20lbs CO2 tank that can be filled for $17 instead of the 5lbs bottle return program at the LHBS for $49 each swap. I was pretty much run off the list due to an LHBS owner being on the list ....it was fun

wow! i'm sure that they were almost ready to grab their pitchforks and torches and come after you, over THAT big of a price discrep. yeesh!

 

[the_bird]

haha...reminds me of the time I brought up on an email list the place where one could rent a 20lbs CO2 tank that can be filled for $17 instead of the 5lbs bottle return program at the LHBS for $49 each swap. I was pretty much run off the list due to an LHBS owner being on the list ....it was fun

Your homebrew shop was getting FORTY NINE DOLLARS for a 5lb tank swap?

 

[Section1]

I just wish I had a LHBS in my area. I have to order everything online and hope I didn't forget something. I also like to see what it is I'm buying before I get it home, I can't count how many times I've ordered items online thinking it was what I needed only to find out it wasn't once I held it in my hand or it looked good in the picture but was a POS once seeing it up close.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

It was just an idea nobody's forcing you to use it. And you are not the only LHBS owner out there that might read this thread.

Geesh what a grouch!

Cut the guy some slack. He spends his time here well and benefits us from being here. A bulk grain club might be fine for a LHBS, but it sounds like a lousy idea for an internet retailer, IMHO. And even for an LHBS, you'd have to be concerned about people buying for friends, or worse, buying for a club. And it's not even the dishonesty of that that would be the problem, so much as the fact that it would become incredibly difficult to estimate which grains and quantities to stock because you would definitely have a dramatic change in your grain orders. I say that because, obviously, the heavy brewers who are buying bulk would jump onto that deal first... and who knows home many of those will be there, but they'll all want a sack or two at a time. And just like that :snap: you could get Maris Otter into stock and be out of it within an hour. No more for another week.

Or you could ration it, limit them to maybe 15 pounds at a time. But then you seem like a scrooge when you're sitting on top of large sacks. And who's to stop that guy from just coming in 4 days in a row to get his sack at cost?

 

[Joker]

It was just an idea nobody's forcing you to use it. And you are not the only LHBS owner out there that might read this thread.

Geesh what a grouch!

I agree this sounds like a great idea. When are you going to open the shop that offers this?

 

[jezter6]

I don't have a lot of money right now... But I'm listening...

I suppose from your perspective, the best way to do a group buy would be to put it on your site that you will purchase 100 (or however many) March pumps once 100 people have placed a downpayment, and you will sell them at a nicely discounted price to those 100 people.

Let each homebrew club, website, etc., all get the word out through their own channels and see if you can't make a nice buck and supply it at a dirt cheap price.

There are great ways of doing what Forrest was asking. Sites like FUNDABLE.

Premise: You state that you need $xxx.00 to complete a project/group buy. Everyone 'pledges' thair amount to the cause, and once enough money is reached, funds are given to the project owner to complete the project. At any time, users can back out of their pledge, or the project owner can shut the project down. At that point, users all get their money back.

So if you went to the site and created a fundable project saying "We need to raise $8643.25 for a group purchase of 17 March pumps" - everyone who wants one puts in their portion (1/17th of 8643.25). If 12 people put in, it just sits there waiting for 5 more people. Once the last person is in and the 8643.25 is reached, they send the money to Forrest and he goes and buys them and sends it out.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

It was just an idea nobody's forcing you to use it. And you are not the only LHBS owner out there that might read this thread.

Geesh what a grouch!

Everyone here knows that I am not a grouch, I am just being realistic. If I charged a $25 annual fee so you could buy things at cost, if I looked in the general direction of a customer I would lose money.

Selling items at cost or close is bad for everyone and the economy.

 

[Drunkensatyr]

I would just like to say "Thank You Forrest" for spending time on this board bouncing ideas off of us and helping to keep us informed of new products and changes in the LHBS world. It is a great resource that not many people have. Keep up the good fight!

 

[abracadabra]

Everyone here knows that I am not a grouch,

I am just being realistic. If I charged a $25 annual fee so you could buy things at cost, if I looked in the general direction of a customer I would lose money.

Selling items at cost or close is bad for everyone and the economy.

Apparently not everyone knows it.

Besides I though you were not going to post anymore because you didn't like the way the comments were going.

And by cost I was refering to your entire cost (Shipping, labor, rent, ect) not the purchase price of the grain itself.

I just thought it might be a way to make some money as opposed to NO money. That employee cost money whether he's sitting on his A$$ or loading grain. That rent is still due regardless.

But you just dismissed the idea off hand with a rather snippy comment I thought.

A simple I can't afford to do that would have sufficed.

 

[abracadabra]

I agree this sounds like a great idea. When are you going to open the shop that offers this?

Trying to now.

 

[Evan!]

Got into this thread a bit late, but...I think the bottom line is, get the prices for a bulk buy on paper and show them to the LHBS owner. If he's a real businessman and has any respect for free market principles, he'll either meet your price or let you go with the bulk buy with no hard feelings. On the other hand, if he's a protectionist/socialist who doesn't really understand free market capitalism, he'll probably be an ******* about it...in either case, you'll then know where customers stand with this guy.

 

[abracadabra]

Cut the guy some slack. He spends his time here well and benefits us from being here. A bulk grain club might be fine for a LHBS, but it sounds like a lousy idea for an internet retailer, IMHO. And even for an LHBS, you'd have to be concerned about people buying for friends, or worse, buying for a club. And it's not even the dishonesty of that that would be the problem, so much as the fact that it would become incredibly difficult to estimate which grains and quantities to stock because you would definitely have a dramatic change in your grain orders. I say that because, obviously, the heavy brewers who are buying bulk would jump onto that deal first... and who knows home many of those will be there, but they'll all want a sack or two at a time. And just like that :snap: you could get Maris Otter into stock and be out of it within an hour. No more for another week.

Or you could ration it, limit them to maybe 15 pounds at a time. But then you seem like a scrooge when you're sitting on top of large sacks. And who's to stop that guy from just coming in 4 days in a row to get his sack at cost?

In the first place I didn't suggest he do it for his online customers.

In the second place I thought his response was condescending.

In the third place if he could do it with pumps that don't spoil with time why can't
he do it with grains that do spoil.

I'm sorry but I just don't follow the logic of the rest of your argument.

 

[hopshead]

Got into this thread a bit late, but...I think the bottom line is, get the prices for a bulk buy on paper and show them to the LHBS owner. If he's a real businessman and has any respect for free market principles, he'll either meet your price or let you go with the bulk buy with no hard feelings. On the other hand, if he's a protectionist/socialist who doesn't really understand free market capitalism, he'll probably be an ******* about it...in either case, you'll then know where customers stand with this guy.

I read that and lmao. Good point also, I am employing this strategy now.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

In the first place I didn't suggest he do it for his online customers.

In the second place I thought his response was condescending.

In the third place if he could do it with pumps that don't spoil with time why can't
he do it with grains that do spoil.

I'm sorry but I just don't follow the logic of the rest of your argument.

The rest of my argument is simple. Grain takes up space and it spoils. Extra storage space also costs more money. LHBS's don't have the ability to just sit on thousands of dollars worth of grain that might be purchased sometime in the next few months or later. They try to remain lean as that reduces their rent (they can get by with a smaller store, or stock more different items).

So anything that dramatically alters their customer's buying habits and results in them running out of things or having difficulty predicting future needs is going to result in many unhappy customers.

Maybe a place like AHS who has a huge internet presence could do it for their in-store customers, but why would they when the in-store customers are already getting a great price (internet price, but no shipping sounds real good to me- no need for a further discount).

 

[Austinhomebrew]

And by cost I was refering to your entire cost (Shipping, labor, rent, ect) not the purchase price of the grain itself.
.

Sorry if I came off that way. I didn't mean to. Every homebrew store is selling grain at cost then. I know a lot of them and we all just get by and we raise prices only when we have to. Some stores are selling things below cost (I mean what the product cost them not including any other expenses).

Just recently I saw a well known homebrew store selling Cascade hops on sale for $6.99 a pound! He obviously didn't know that he can't replace them and even if he found some they would be $13 a pound to replace. Homebrew stores have always barely covered their costs. If a homebrew store has higher prices it is because the need the higher prices to get by. Unfortunately that will make less people order and they will have the choice of raising prices higher or going out of business.

 

[abracadabra]

The rest of my argument is simple. Grain takes up space and it spoils. Extra storage space also costs more money. LHBS's don't have the ability to just sit on thousands of dollars worth of grain that might be purchased sometime in the next few months or later. They try to remain lean as that reduces their rent (they can get by with a smaller store, or stock more different items).

So anything that dramatically alters their customer's buying habits and results in them running out of things or having difficulty predicting future needs is going to result in many unhappy customers.

Maybe a place like AHS who has a huge internet presence could do it for their in-store customers, but why would they when the in-store customers are already getting a great price (internet price, but no shipping sounds real good to me- no need for a further discount).

Man !

You are making way too may assumptions. I never said anything about buying grain and holding it for anyone. Just like I never said anything about doing it for online customers.

 

[BierMuncher]

I think it's time for a...

 

[TexLaw]

Honestly, I don't know why you guys want to spend so much time arguing with a guy who seems more concerned with showing off and stirring the pot than anything else.


TL

 

[Sherpa FE]

I think it's time for a...

View attachment 3435

I think I am going to be sick.....LOL

 

[Joker]

Trying to now.

As the owner?

 

[SPLASTiK]

SPLASTik
Yeah thats the standard rate to Craig via NorthlandServices(used to be Boyer).I'm sure it varies town to town.Who do you use in Juneau?Gourmet Alaska?

Yep, Gourmet Alaska, the only guys in town. I hadn't thought about shipping grain up as freight before... I should look into that.

 

[malkore]

AustinHomeBrew,

I know that you are a vendor, and need to stay in business.
But if I can't afford to buy grain, then buying hops and yeast and equipment is a moot point because I can't brew without grain.

I've also kept aquariums in my day (and by that I mean large tanks, small tanks...total combined capacity of over 500gallons).
I had the same problems in that hobby: the local fish store wants $9 for a bottle of chlorine treatment that I can buy online for $4 plus $2 shipping.

Then, like now, I have to strike a balance. My LHBS doesn't even sell grain mills because they know they cannot compete with Monster Mills and Barley Crushers.
But its no cheaper for me to get hops online than at the LHBS, and liquid yeast isn't enough of a difference.

As a hobbyist, I have to buy online and at the LHBS, to support my hobby, and to support my LHBS.
And I buy a LOT more stuff at the LHBS than online...which I reserve for cheap kegging gear and specialty stuff liek dry yeast my LHBS won't stock.

 

[Brewpastor]

This all sounds like a republican and a democrat discussing politics. Two different sides of the same coin, different views, different perspectives, different priorities. Apples and oranges.

 

[abracadabra]

Right Tex,
I couldn't agree more. How dare these people express a differing opinion. A lynching is to good for them. Too bad we can't burn people at the stake. Maybe we should ban anyone that offers an opinion that differs from the main stream.

Why don't you write a sticky letting us lesser mortals know how we should properly express ourselves.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

AustinHomeBrew,

I know that you are a vendor, and need to stay in business.
But if I can't afford to buy grain, then buying hops and yeast and equipment is a moot point because I can't brew without grain.

I've also kept aquariums in my day (and by that I mean large tanks, small tanks...total combined capacity of over 500gallons).
I had the same problems in that hobby: the local fish store wants $9 for a bottle of chlorine treatment that I can buy online for $4 plus $2 shipping.

Then, like now, I have to strike a balance. My LHBS doesn't even sell grain mills because they know they cannot compete with Monster Mills and Barley Crushers.
But its no cheaper for me to get hops online than at the LHBS, and liquid yeast isn't enough of a difference.

As a hobbyist, I have to buy online and at the LHBS, to support my hobby, and to support my LHBS.
And I buy a LOT more stuff at the LHBS than online...which I reserve for cheap kegging gear and specialty stuff liek dry yeast my LHBS won't stock.

You should buy what you need from the place that gives you the best deal.

Most stores are actually lowering the relative cost of grain (they are taking far less margin than they were a month or so ago. You see the prices going up and the homebrew stores see their profits going down. (Profits meaning the money they need to pay the employees and rent, etc.)

For the last 7 years or so, grain prices have been stable but shipping charges went up drastically. Homebrew stores just ate the extra cost. Now the grain prices and the shipping charges are going up together. The grain prices should have gone up at least 50% but most stores only raised the price about 25%. Many stores will not be able to stay open if they compete with these prices. They will be more expensive, or go out of business or both.

 

[FSR402]

Man some of you are getting ripped on this stuff. My LHBS sells pale 2-row at $.90/pound hops are $1.99 for pellets and $2.19 for leaf. If you're a member of the local homebrew club you get 15% off.
Up until a month ago the hops were $.90/$1.10.
I'll stick top buying from them for now, online is not going to save me jack.