bulk buy whoas

[Austinhomebrew]

I am a pretty savvy buyer and consider your (Austin Home Brew) flat rate shipping one of the better deals out there - plus, since you are out of state - no tax. The closest LHBS to where I live is in Tallahassee (80+ miles away), so I look online for most all my supplies. My methods are pretty simple, I go to several online shops, add what I need to my cart, click checkout, tally shipping costs, and see which offers me the best overall price. So far, Austin Home Brew has been the best deal most times. If I could ask - why don't you sell full sacks? I would much prefer that over 40#s in a box...

I tried selling bags on line and no one bought them. We have a heavy duty box that we ship wine kits in and it happens to hold 40# of grain. Now that 40 lb boxes are online people buy alot of them. I don't question it it just works.

 

[EdWort]

Those are great prices. I need to get in on this. Where can I buy grain at these prices? Hook a brotha up!

North Country Malt. Interesting though, they took their wholesale program off the web. Imagine that.

Still, I personally like the Bulk Grain club. Sure, it's a little work for the store, but it creates a captive customer who has to come back in the store for his base grains. While he's there, he picks up is speciality grains, hops & yeast, plus any other impulse buys.

I know I for one cannot walk into your store without dropping a couple 20s on various stuff.

 

[the_bird]

I know I for one cannot walk into your store without dropping a couple 20s on various stuff.

Tell me about it! I drove over the to HBS yesterday basically because it was a nice day and I wanted to go for a drive (and Cassie and I needed to get out of the house). Ended up dropping almost $100. "Ooh, he's got in stainless steel racking canes!" "Oh yeah, I need a CO2 charger!" "Well, I should get some Saflager for the fridge"...

I *needed* maybe $20 of stuff...

 

[eddie]

http://www.countrymaltgroup.com/contact/mid_country_order.asp

Is this what you're looking for?

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I tried selling bags on line and no one bought them. We have a heavy duty box that we ship wine kits in and it happens to hold 40# of grain. Now that 40 lb boxes are online people buy alot of them. I don't question it it just works.

I can almost promise that if you offered 55 lb sacks with the same $6.99 shipping that I would take you up on it.

Reference the conversation above, I now understand the "unfair comparison" argument. I don't think anyone's trying to insinuate that you're price gouging, but fair's fair.

 

[John Beere]

I can almost promise that if you offered 55 lb sacks with the same $6.99 shipping that I would take you up on it.

You can mark me down for this as well...

 

[WBC]

That's my biggest problem, shipping cost. I would by grain from a LBHS if the shipping did not double the cost. The only way I buy grain is to go get it but I do not have a local LBHS source and so I have to drive quite a distance and that is what I would like to avoid if I could. Now with the unreal increases of every cost involved I feel like I am forced to create an online business just to try to reduce costs of brewing. No one want's LBHS stores to disappear. Sometimes you are needing a certain item and need it right away.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

That's my biggest problem, shipping cost. I would by grain from a LBHS if the shipping did not double the cost. The only way I buy grain is to go get it but I do not have a local LBHS source and so I have to drive quite a distance and that is what I would like to avoid if I could. Now with the unreal increases of every cost involved I feel like I am forced to create an online business just to try to reduce costs of brewing. No one want's LBHS stores to disappear. Sometimes you are needing a certain item and need it right away.

What are their grain prices per pound? Do you spend more than $6.99 in gas to go there and back? Just asking.

 

[Kevin Dean]

I'm also wondering about that. My LHBS's owner is like the god of brewing in the city. He's one of the "supporting members" of a semi-new microbrew in town, he's advertising nationally and a member of both local homebrew clubs, FOAM and BURP.

That said, I'm not quite sure how he'd react to a bulk buy. I don't think he's got lots of storage space (at least, I never see it) so I think he may not be getting the best prices on his own grains. It's very possible in that situation that he's willing to join in the bulk buys himself to snag sacks at prices lower than his suppliers.

 

[AlaskaBrewing]

I am willing to bet that your LHBS owner would entertain the thought of a group buy. It seems to me that you could get a good price for your grain and he would still be able to make a little on it. He could even have you pick it up at the shop. Like they said in the posts above, not many people can go to the brew shop and not drop a few bucks on something.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

That's my biggest problem, shipping cost. I would by grain from a LBHS if the shipping did not double the cost. The only way I buy grain is to go get it but I do not have a local LBHS source and so I have to drive quite a distance and that is what I would like to avoid if I could.

In another thread, quite awhile ago, I did some math estimates and calculations. I think I figured that malt probably costs about 7 cents a pound to buy and make.

Then it has to be put into bags. And shipped to a holding facility which pays rent and for its employees and forklifts. Then a crane is used to put it on a boat (in the case of European malts). Then a captain and crew sail it over on a ship. Then it's unloaded and trucked to a distributor. Truckers need to get paid too.

Now it sits at the wholesaler and it's up to 30 cents a pound and they charge you 40 cents a pound. In exchange for that ten cents a pound, you get to pick it up whenever you want and they have regular hours and pay rent and pay for the forklift and the labor.

But instead of picking it up, you ask them to contact UPS and have UPS (or whoever) send a driver over to pick it up and place it on a truck and take it to a sorting facility, and have it placed on another truck and delivered to your front door. Personally, getting that service for 20 bucks is pretty cheap IMHO.


My point is this: Shipping is just simply a large portion of the cost for grain. There's just no way around it. The fact that picking up wholesale is 2 shipping-costs cheaper than buying it from Austin Homebrew or your LHBS just increases your cost. Shipping costs money. That is a fact that we need to get through our thick heads and just accept. It may not change the product, but it is a service that costs money and that we have to pay for to get what we want.

I guess it's just too bad we don't all live near a maltster.



Little sidenote: I read awhile ago (though things are changing) that in the old Communist Russia, truckers were a very low-prestige job. People found it distasteful that someone would charge money for transporting something when, in reality, they didn't add anything to the value.

Well, as we all know, truckers DO add to the value of the goods. In fact they add in the most important of all things to the goods. Location. They deliver it!!! When I think about it long and hard, consider the cost of gas and time, I'm usually willing to pay for that.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Thats the spirit. Give your local guy a chance to earn the business instead of assuming he won't work with you. He saves a lot when a truck shipment is over 10,000 pounds. Maybe the local brewery, the homebrew store and the homebrew club can get together and save.

I would consider a group buy on March 809HS pumps.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I would consider a group buy on March 809HS pumps.

I don't have a lot of money right now... But I'm listening...

I suppose from your perspective, the best way to do a group buy would be to put it on your site that you will purchase 100 (or however many) March pumps once 100 people have placed a downpayment, and you will sell them at a nicely discounted price to those 100 people.

Let each homebrew club, website, etc., all get the word out through their own channels and see if you can't make a nice buck and supply it at a dirt cheap price.

 

[Onescalerguy]

First off,Forrest you're the man and AHS rocks!I get a better shipping rate from you in Austin,Texas to my barge line (that ships the grain the rest of the way to S.E.Alaska for 60$ per 200#)in Seattle that i'd get from the LHBS in Seattle!It's always a pleasure doing business with you.
Cheers

 

[boo boo]

I buy grain from 2 sources bulk. I get some grain from my LHBS and some from my local microbrewery. Both places have served me well and deserve my business. I support my micro by buying his products and also by buying a sack here and there on his order ( I place an order well in advance ) where he gains by charging a nominal shipping fee.

My LHBS has done me favors by letting me piggyback sacks of grain on orders from the mainland (before he had a source for the grain I wanted) for FREE. They certainly gained my respect and loyalty for doing this. I spend a good portion of my HB money at either of their two stores and have become friends with the owners.
I have been around long enough to know that it isn't always the money that makes a great business, but combined with service it sure do go a long way.

 

[Chriso]

If everyone had this view, we would be buying everything from Amazon and Walmart.
Already do, except Amazon is rarely the cheapest, I'm a stingier bastid than that. ...and.... Already do, except for when it's not feasible to drive all the way out to Wal-Mart (V8 pickup truck, about 10 mi round trip).

Grain and hop prices are up. The LHBS stores are doing the same as they always have; they buy in bulk, add their markup and resell it to us. If their prices go up, our prices go up. The online sellers prices are up as well. I don't see why there is all the fuss.
Not making a fuss. Just pointing out a different trend that I've noticed, and am part of.

The LHBS stores usually add a lot of value and service over their online counterparts. If you value that service, keep buying from them.
I'm kinda anti-social, so I appreciate being able to buy online without having to leave my house.

Is it really the current price of supplies that is the problem? If prices keep going up (and they most likely will). Then the online prices will be at the same level as the LHBS stores are at today. What will you do then...stop brewing?
Nope. Just keep searching for the best price, and when i find it, buy it. I accept that prices change, especially over long periods of time, due to (seemingly) natural inflation. I just don't like it when current prices are wildly disparate, even if it's for a good reason. I owe it to myself to choose the most economical option. I'm a cheap, stingy bastid, like I said.

 

[EdWort]

http://www.countrymaltgroup.com/contact/mid_country_order.asp

Is this what you're looking for?

Yep. Thanks. So it looks like shipping has come down since the have a closer terminal, but the price of Pale 2 Row has gone up. The price would be $0.55 per pound shipped to Texas compared to $0.42 earlier this year. So a 55# bag now costs $7.15 more or an increast of 23.6%.

Even though, $30.25 for a 55 lb. bag of grain shipped to a commercial address in Austin is not bad at all, but you need to buy 42 bags.

A bag of Thomas Fawcett Maris Otte would cost $41.25

 

[SPLASTiK]

I suppose from your perspective, the best way to do a group buy would be to put it on your site that you will purchase 100 (or however many) March pumps once 100 people have placed a downpayment, and you will sell them at a nicely discounted price to those 100 people.

Let each homebrew club, website, etc., all get the word out through their own channels and see if you can't make a nice buck and supply it at a dirt cheap price.

That'd be a great idea.

First off,Forrest you're the man and AHS rocks!I get a better shipping rate from you in Austin,Texas to my barge line (that ships the grain the rest of the way to S.E.Alaska for 60$ per 200#)in Seattle that i'd get from the LHBS in Seattle!It's always a pleasure doing business with you.

Which barge line? You work for them and get a discount or is that a standard rate?

I'm a strong supporter of local businesses except for instances where their prices are outrageously marked up. I don't mind a small markup and shipping to Alaska isn't the cheapest thing in the world so I can understand why it may be slightly more expensive, but there's times where's it's obvious it should be cheaper. If I can buy it in Seattle and ship it to myself for a lot cheaper than they're selling it, I probably won't be buying it. I support my local because I like the service, the employees and one day I might need something right away and if they went under I'd be out of luck.

I have a LHBS but I travel Seattle quite a bit and Larry's is like my LHBS away from home. Great prices there for grain, especially bulk.

I try to buy as much as I can from my LHBS but I don't buy specialty grain from them as they only sell it in 1# sealed bags from the manufacturer (and they're $3) unless I need it that day to brew and their selection is limited so I buy it at Larry's which is $1-1.50/lb if not buying a sack. I don't know why my LHBS doesn't just buy it in bulk sacks and have bins and a scale, letting people bag their grain like most LHBS do... but maybe he makes more money this way or thinks it'd be a hassle/doesn't really care since he has pretty fast turnover. I'll be getting a huge cargo discount with the company I work for starting in April and might not be buying any grain from them at all, even 2-Row. I'll still buy most everything else since it's comparable to online, or cheaper in some cases (hops still at $1.50/oz!).

So the only things I really don't buy from them are specialty grain and occasionally a few other odds and ends when I'm in Seattle since it's instore or things they don't carry like US-05. I did shop elsewhere for my kegging equipment as well since the dual gauge regulator was $87 at LHBS and I ordered bulk beer line since they sell it for $1/ft and I could get 100 feet delivered to my door for cheaper than 50 feet and tax.

 

[SuperiorBrew]

Most people reading the forums don't know that you are comparing a homebrew store with the place the homebrew store buys the grain.

Then you should try buying it from the manufacturer and not a distributer. I own a couple mail order businesses and I buy from who ever gives me the best pricing.

Also Eds Idea might be better than you think because many people will pay for that bag of grain and never use it all. We sell thousands of dollars in gift certificates ever year and for the last 14 years only an average of 70% ever get redeemed. Plus if you use his money to buy more grain you will have more instock when the prices do rise again.

 

[Onescalerguy]

SPLASTik
Yeah thats the standard rate to Craig via NorthlandServices(used to be Boyer).I'm sure it varies town to town.Who do you use in Juneau?Gourmet Alaska?
Cheers

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Then you should try buying it from the manufacturer and not a distributer. I own a couple mail order businesses and I buy from who ever gives me the best pricing.

Also Eds Idea might be better than you think because many people will pay for that bag of grain and never use it all. We sell thousands of dollars in gift certificates ever year and for the last 14 years only an average of 70% ever get redeemed. Plus if you use his money to buy more grain you will have more instock when the prices do rise again.

Grain manufacturers do not sell to homebrew stores. So there goes that. You have to buy from distributors.

You would really want me to take money from people that won't use the whole bag so that you can get a better price? I don't think that is fair.

Grain doesn't last as long as you think before hatching weavils. I can't buy grain and sit on it. You can do this to hops because you can freeze hops.

 

[gonzoflick]

My LHBS is $39.95 per 50lb bag of 2 row. Seems logical to buy this locally.

 

[jdoiv]

I believe Ed did a bulk grain purchase with North Country Malt. I put together a bulk grain buy this summer and approached the LHBS to see if they wanted to add grain to the order to save them some money too. They were not interested as they felt they didn't have the storage space for it (they were in a very small space, but have since moved to a larger store front). We went through North Country Malt, and at the time Canada Malt 2-row Pale ale came in around $25 a bag with shipping on a pallet purchase ( $0.45 per pound).

I do believe in supporting the local business, but if I can justify a purchase that will save me substantial money by buying elsewhere, that's what I'll do. Buying the grain from the LHBS would have cost me 3 to 4 times what I spent. The down side is that I did have to purchase around 700 pounds of grain, but I have storage space for it and will use it within 8 months (I hope).

 

[Special Ed]

I know this thread is focused primarily on bulk grain, but generally speaking, unless your organizing a group buy to get supplies direct and cut out the HBS (online or local) the price is about the same. I don't live close to a LHBS and don't make special trips. If I'm in the area I'll stop in because I like being in a room full of HB stuff and I'll get anything I need or want at the time. In this case the gas is free because I was already there, but the prices are generally high. Otherwise, I'll buy online. I recently placed a large order (70#+) and compared Austin Homebrew Supply with my standard supplier because of the low shipping offer and when all was said and done, I didn't buy there because the total cost was still a couple bucks more.

In short:
LHBS = high prices, no shipping
Online HBS #1 = medium prices, cheap shipping
Online HBS #2 = low prices, normal shipping

And for all intents a purposes; LHBS = Online HBS #1 = Online HBS #2 so go where you get good service and RAHAHB!

 

[abracadabra]

In most any business the key word is efficiency. If a retailer can drop a middleman he'll do it in a New York minute. If he can reduce his cost by locating near a supplier so his shipping costs are reduced he'll do that too. The www is all about efficiency and the business that is the most efficient will dominate.

With the advent of the www the traditional brick and mortar stores are going to have to find ways to adapt or disappear simple as that.

Just like Wal-Mart replaced a lot of local small buisness the www will do the same for more small business while others will adapt and grow. The LHBS's business model has changed they need to recognize that. With forum's like this their expertise is no longer as valuable as it once was. And home brewers wishing to socialize, last minute purchases, spur of the moment purchase, brewers needing this or that in a hurry are all pretty small potatoes and is not IMHO a sound business model.

I like the idea of a LHBS creating a bulk buyers club. Say charge $25 a year and letting the members buy at or near cost. They come in pick up their entire bulk purchase and more than likely spend a few extra $ and leave. 100 members would generate $2500 a year and 100 bags of grain which should create an additional discount for the LHBS from the dist.

In a dynamic economic system I believe it's called creative distruction. Just like pretty much nobody's job is safe (unless you work for the govt.) nobody's business is safe either.

 

[cheezydemon]

I really like the people at my local hbs. I also like seeing the grain and buying it right then and there. I don't want to wait for shipping on a product I didn't lay eyes on myself. I guess I am old fashioned.

Of course the local owners are as German as can be and have vast knowledge about beer making, maybe not typical.

 

[Brewpastor]

When I travel I like to visit LHBS to see how they are. There are some stinkers out there, but there are also some great ones. I was in Minneapolis this past week and was in Northern Brewer. It was clean, well stocked and friendly, and I bought some supplies. Austin Homebrew is another great shop and the staff is very friendly. B3 is the same. When you can go to a good shop and spend some time learning and sharing it really is enjoyable. NB was hopping and the staff was very busy, but they took their time with the customers. I had a long chat with one guy about yeasts and really appreciated his time. In turn, I spent time with some of the customers, even helped a guy put a recipe together. In other words, a good LHBS can be a center of a brewing community and really spur the art along.

My deal now is one of time during my daily grind. It is so much easier to have everything I need dropped at my door by the UPS man. But if there is a sense of community, conversation and support at the LHBS I will make the time. But if it is just "The grain is over there someplace" then I won't be bothered.

As for buying bulk, I buy 3 or four bags at a time and hops by the pound. Specialties are piece meal but add up in volume as well. I shop around. But the reality is I am generally shopping around not just for price, but selection as well. Hop, yeast and grain selection is huge from me and when I can get what I want all in one place I am a happy brewer. Take the pale chocolate malt in the 8-8-8 RIS we are planning. It is kind of hard to find and my LHBS won't bring it in. I dfon't blame hime, after-all who wants 55# of some strange grain laying around and not returning the investment? But I am going to brew the recipes I plan and so will hunt out the sources that can get me what I want to make them.

I didnt 'mean to rant. I guess my point is that LHBSs definately have their place and the more strong shops there are the better the brewing world will be for it, but in our not so perfect world you have to shop around at times to get what you need.

Peace- BP

 

[CBBaron]

I do a mix of online and LHBS shopping for brew supplies. My LHBS is about a 15 min drive and has a limited selection with somewhat questionable freshness (the hops are stored on the shelf and many of the yeast are less than a month from expiration). However prices are not bad and there is considerable savings on heavy items like bulk grain and bottles when compared to shipping from my online supplier.
The online HBS I use is almost a LHBS but it is a little over an hour drive, so I save the time and gas by paying ~$10 for shipping and I get 1 or 2 day delivery at standard shipping rates. I don't brew enough to justify buying more than a bag of base malt (Maris Otter) in bulk. My other specialty grains I buy at a slightly reduced price in 5# quantities. This combination has saved me a considerable amount in grain prices per batch but it will take me many brews to make up the cost of the mill. However the improved efficiency and flexibility of having a store of grains I can crush when I want to brew is worth the cost.

Craig

 

[BierMuncher]

Again, I'm sure the prices have increased both for freight & grain.

I'm driving about 15 minutes south after work to pick up my two sacks from a coop pallet order:

Marris Otter: 55 pounds at 70 cents, ($38.59)
Best Malz, Pilsner: 55 pounds at 58 cents ($31.97)

Shipping & Handling was $10.

Total was $81 for 110 pounds of grain. The same order on line would have run $131 delivered. That’s a $50 (38%) savings…not including my gas/time to drive and pick up.

(They also ordered a butt load of reconditioned 5-gallon cornies, selling for $20 each.)

 

[ohiobrewtus]

(They also ordered a butt load of reconditioned 5-gallon cornies, selling for $20 each.)

Is that a metric buttload or an imperial buttload?