bug country 2014

[dcHokie]

Free shipping on orders over $75.

Takes longer, but this time of year your yeast/bugs aren't getting cooked in a hot delivery van.

 

[masonsjax]

You've got it good. 3 vials shipped to Denver USPS was $48.

Actually, I just looked at my receipt, the total was $40.61 for two vials, so I paid $20.30 per vial.

I'm not really irritated at the cost, just that it wasn't obvious there was a much cheaper option, and that I paid extra for nothing.

 

[signpost]

I'm not really irritated at the cost, just that it wasn't obvious there was a much cheaper option, and that I paid extra for nothing.

I feel the same way.

 

[Pole]

i paid $14.93 per vial. you paid $16 - so a dollar more...

Oh, I'm not complaining, just making an observation.

FWIW, my shipping costs would have been the same if I only bought 2 vials, so they would've been closer to $18/vial. Figured I might as well grab a 3rd at that point.

 

[v01gt]

I just ordered some of this and I'm pretty pumped about it. Taking inspiration from Goose Island's Madame Rose (oud bruin/sour brown). Found the ingredients on their website and threw this recipe together. Would love some feedback since this is my first attempt at a sour.

74.1% 2-Row
14.8% Wheat
3.7% Caramel 80
3.7% Special B
1.9% Chocolate
1.9% Acid Malt
1 oz Fuggles 60min
East Coast ECY20 "Bug County"

At 65% efficiency, that puts me right around 6.5-7% ABV, 12 IBUs and ~20 SRM. I plan on mashing at 158 deg. I also plan on adding wine or bourbon soaked oak cubes and sour cherries to secondary, about 2-3 months before bottling.How does this look?

 

[signpost]

OK, so I have a question.

I am fiddling with a recipe for when I end up having a chance to brew a batch with this yeast. From what I've read about this blend as well as most sour blends or even pure cultured strains of lacto/pedio/brett/whatever, I can expect this to ferment out to a really low FG no matter what ingredients I use or how I mash.

Approximately how high of an attenuation should I input into my calculations, so I don't end up with a beer that is stronger than I intend?

I'm sure you might be thinking, "Why does this idiot not want his beer to be stronger than intended?"

It's just a matter of trying to match my results with my intent. As much as I can, I want the beer I end up with to be on purpose. I know I can't control everything, but this is one facet I should be able to control within a certain range based on other people's experiences.

Here's the recipe I'm fiddling with, in case you want that info before giving me your guess of how low it'll ferment. I'm calling it County Western, as a play on the fact that many people (including me) have made the mistake of calling the yeast Bug Country.

8 gallon batch
mash @ 154 - 60 min.
mashout @ 170 - 10 min.

2-row - 10 lb - 60.2%
White Wheat - 3 lb - 18%
Brown Malt - 2 lb - 12%
Crystal 80 - 1 lb - 6%
Chocolate Malt - 10 oz - 3.8%

0.3 oz. - Calypso - AA 15.3% - 60 min - 10 IBU

OG - 1.056
SRM - 24
IBU - 10

What do you think?

 

[TrickyDick]

Looks good! I brewed today with the RU55 recipe (THANKS BGBC!) - mashed at 157º.
I haven't pitched the Bug County yet. I had planned to pitch at 80º, but I see on the side of the jar it says 65-74... Wort is now chilled to 68º
Wondering about oxygenation as well- yes or no?
Thinking about giving it a bit of oxygen, pitch at 68º and let it rise to ambient temp (72-74 in my basement).
Also the yeast has a September production date. Sort of late to do anything about that now though.
I brewed with Bug Farm over the summer and pitched at 72 I think, but with no oxygenation. Little if any visible krausen and nothing came blowing out the blow-off tube in my conical filled past the seal by the way.
Going to get cleaned up then check back for some responses from awesome HBT members!!
:rockin:
TD

 

[finsfan]

I would hit it with a little oxygen, never hurts. I might also pitch it with a small amount of sacch as well. Hope it turns out well, i used mine on the RU55 clone as well!

 

[TrickyDick]

So I did give the wort a good 60 sec dose of oxygen and pitched at 68. OG was 2 points higher than 1.055 target because of greater boil off.
Now I wait 12 months

TD

 

[Remmy]

Actually, I just looked at my receipt, the total was $40.61 for two vials, so I paid $20.30 per vial.

I'm not really irritated at the cost, just that it wasn't obvious there was a much cheaper option, and that I paid extra for nothing.

That's crazy!

I saw $11/vial this weekend and shipping was $5.75 (USPS).

$27.75 and done.

 

[sweetcell]

I just ordered some of this and I'm pretty pumped about it. Taking inspiration from Goose Island's Madame Rose (oud bruin/sour brown). Found the ingredients on their website and threw this recipe together. Would love some feedback since this is my first attempt at a sour.

74.1% 2-Row
14.8% Wheat
3.7% Caramel 80
3.7% Special B
1.9% Chocolate
1.9% Acid Malt
1 oz Fuggles 60min
East Coast ECY20 "Bug County"

At 65% efficiency, that puts me right around 6.5-7% ABV, 12 IBUs and ~20 SRM. I plan on mashing at 158 deg. I also plan on adding wine or bourbon soaked oak cubes and sour cherries to secondary, about 2-3 months before bottling.How does this look?

looks like a solid recipe. only thing that caught my eye is having the oak in there for 2 or 3 months. depending how much you use it could be too much. would be problematic if after 1 month you've got plenty of oak but the cherries weren't done. or, you wait out the cherries and end up with an oak bomb. i would start with the cherries, then do the oak at 1 or 1.5 months. if you need more oak, it won't hurt to leave the beer on the cherries a little longer.

 

[sweetcell]

Approximately how high of an attenuation should I input into my calculations, so I don't end up with a beer that is stronger than I intend?

given the bugs in this blend, i would conservatively estimate that the beer will reach 1.000 to be safe. at your predicted OG this would put you at around 7.3% abv. if the beer stops at 1.005, you'd be at 6.67%.

I'm sure you might be thinking, "Why does this idiot not want his beer to be stronger than intended?"

anyone who thinks that is the true idiot. too much alcohol can suppress sourness. it can also limit the quantity you can/should consume.

 

[v01gt]

looks like a solid recipe. only thing that caught my eye is having the oak in there for 2 or 3 months. depending how much you use it could be too much. would be problematic if after 1 month you've got plenty of oak but the cherries weren't done. or, you wait out the cherries and end up with an oak bomb. i would start with the cherries, then do the oak at 1 or 1.5 months. if you need more oak, it won't hurt to leave the beer on the cherries a little longer.

Thanks for your reply. I wound up brewing this a couple weeks ago with everything the same except 1lb raw wheat + 1lb munich instead of 2lbs wheat, and replaced the chocolate with Carafa I. We'll see what happens in a year or two.

It's interesting how I've read such conflicting info on oak cubes. I know it's a "taste as you go" kinda thing, but I could have sworn I read cubes for about 2-3 months was pretty standard. You are definitely right though; don't want to overdo it. I will definitely dig a little deeper into the topic when the time comes. Regardless, my first sour is on the way and I'm pretty excited.

 

[BGBC]

It's interesting how I've read such conflicting info on oak cubes. I know it's a "taste as you go" kinda thing, but I could have sworn I read cubes for about 2-3 months was pretty standard. You are definitely right though; don't want to overdo it. I will definitely dig a little deeper into the topic when the time comes. Regardless, my first sour is on the way and I'm pretty excited.

I would say it depends on the cubes. I've got a set that I've moved from beer to beer for 3-4 rounds now. I also boiled them a couple times after moving them from the first to second beers. I'm sure they've lost most of their oak character by now and are more of a food for the bugs, with more subtle flavor contributions. I've got them in a Flanders Red and plan to keep them there for more than 2-3 months.

It's similar to barrels. If it's first use, you're going to get more character more quickly, but with more uses they'll contribute less character. You can accelerate this with cubes by boiling them in fresh water and dumping the water.

For another Flanders Red I brewed with a friend, we're using new oak cubes, so we boiled them 3x and have them soaking in red wine. Planning to add them when we rack to secondary, then leave them in from there.

 

[barrooze]

Thanks for your reply. I wound up brewing this a couple weeks ago with everything the same except 1lb raw wheat + 1lb munich instead of 2lbs wheat, and replaced the chocolate with Carafa I. We'll see what happens in a year or two.

It's interesting how I've read such conflicting info on oak cubes. I know it's a "taste as you go" kinda thing, but I could have sworn I read cubes for about 2-3 months was pretty standard. You are definitely right though; don't want to overdo it. I will definitely dig a little deeper into the topic when the time comes. Regardless, my first sour is on the way and I'm pretty excited.

I think it depends on if the cubes are brand new or already used. If new, they impart a lot of flavor in a few days. If they've been used or soaked prior to adding to the beer, the flavor will be more mild and take longer to extract into the beer.

 

[signpost]

8 gallon batch
mash @ 154 - 60 min.
mashout @ 170 - 10 min.

2-row - 10 lb - 60.2%
White Wheat - 3 lb - 18%
Brown Malt - 2 lb - 12%
Crystal 80 - 1 lb - 6%
Chocolate Malt - 10 oz - 3.8%

0.3 oz. - Calypso - AA 15.3% - 60 min - 10 IBU

OG - 1.056
SRM - 24
IBU - 10

What do you think?

I finally got around to brewing up this batch. I made a couple slight changes, though. I dropped the 2-row down to just 9 lbs. and the chocolate malt down to 8 oz. That left the predicted OG at 1.052, I think. But I overshot that a bit and got to 1.055 for almost 80% efficiency. I was happy with that.

I split the 8 gallons pretty evenly into two carboys. Then I pitched a total of about 75 mL of the ECY Bug County, split between the two fermenters. That leaves me with another 50 mL to brew up another batch. There was a little lag, but not a ton. It was maybe 24 hours before I saw some pressure starting to build up in the airlocks. And at 36 hours, the bubbling was steady. I'm looking at having a relatively cool fermentation, though. because I don't have a way to warm up the fermenters. Also, the only good spot I can put them is in the basement (I have a 2 year old and can't leave them on the main floor of the house).

Anyway, I'm excited to have this batch brewed and fermenting.

I was looking back at the ECY website to remind myself of what all is in the blend (even though I knew the info wasn't too specific). But I noticed this phrase that I didn't remember noticing in the past: "other wild yeast seen in spontaneous fermentations are also included (such as Pichia and Kloeckera)."

I did a quick googling and saw that they are considered non-saccharomyces yeasts, but Pichia is part of the Saccharomycetaceae family. That is just according to Wikipedia, though. I did see an article aimed at wine makers about how to recognize these (and other) strains of yeast that might be found naturally on grapes and also how to monitor them and make sure they don't overwhelm the dominant saccharomyces strain.

If anybody can shed some light on these strains and what they might contribute to the fermentation and the end product flavor profile, I would love to hear about it.

 

[FredTheNuke]

love2brew.com has ECY20 BugCounty 2014 in stock this morning. Haul ass and you might get some!!!

I'm thinking it's about time for a brew close to Tart of Darkness but not exactly ToD.

I add my oak cubes for many many months - this simulates aging in a barrel. Of course those barrels are used so I boil my cubes for 10 minutes then soak them in bourbon or pinot noir for 4-6 months before adding about 2.0 oz (by weight - weighed after the soaking so while wet) per 6 gallons of beer. Cubes were originally American Medium Plus - so slightly strong on the toast.

Some further cube math:

57 square inches of barrel surface area per gallon of beer averaged with a standard 53 gallon wine barrel. The oak cubes I have are 1/2x1/2x3/8 inches. This equates to 1.25 square inches per cube. That would be 45.6 cubes per gallon of beer. 46 cubes weigh 1.20 oz dry. I do not yet have an exact weight wet. This math would put somewhere around 7 oz of cubes into a standard 6 gallon batch. Although this would equal the barrel I have yet to try that much. Oldsock recommended 0.15 oz per gallon weighed dry in his book.

 

[Quaker]

Came here to make a similar alert.... after placing my own order, of course.

Excited to get my hands on it. I just brewed 2 x 3 gallon batches for souring; one with Roeselare and the other with a culture built up in a prior batch from Boon, Drie Fontenein, and New Glarus R&D dregs. I wasn't planning to put another batch in the sour pipeline until summer, but I guess I'll need to ready another batch of wort for the ECY20 now.

 

[soundguy]

I just racked my ECY20 beer to secondary on the 1st. Brewed some simple extract beer the throw on the yeast cake to see what happens.

Here is the recipe my recipe and notes so far:

54.5% 6lbs US 2-Row
18.2% 2lbs Vienna
18.2% 2lbs Flaked Wheat
9.1% 1lbs Cara-Pils
10gm Styrian Goldings 2.5IBU
1.046 OG

12/11/14
mash 154
boil got weak toward end so gravity didn't get to 1.05
filled glass carboy as high as I thought it could go, could probably have gotten another gallon or so.
pitched a little over half vial of ecy20 made 10/31 put in fridge set at 65F, raised to 70 over a few days. then stayed in fridge during fermentation of imperial stout (low 60s)
very little kruasen in primary, did turn a fairly bright yellow color though.

1/1/15
racked to secondary 1.008 very lactic tart, lemonade like. very yellow in color. placed under stairs at 58-60F according to stick on thermometer, extract beer pitched on cake.

1/3/15
noticed airlock activity happening again while checking on repitch

The extract batch is literally just 5 gallons of water and extract to 1.048 with about 3 IBU. I can only fit 2 beers in the fermentation fridge so it is fermenting at basement temp next to the other beer. Activity just became visible today, a slight foam forming on top.

I still have half of the vial left and will probably brew something and add dregs for some variety.

 

[signpost]

After a few more days, both carboys of what I'm calling County Western are fermenting along just fine. Lots of airlock activity and a nice 3/4 inch or so of krausen.

The one difference between the two carboys of this split batch that I'm aware of is that one of them got all the proteins and little bit of hop gunk and the other one is virtually trub free before pitching yeast. I'm curious to see how that might effect the flavor of the end product. I don't know if the bugs can eat through any of that gunk, but if it can I've gotta think that will cause some variation in the flavor of the two versions of the batch.

I'm planning on splitting this batch even further. I've got four 1 gallon fermenters that I planning on using for adding some fruit or a couple different kinds of wood.

Anybody have thoughts on how cacao nibs might fit with a dark sour? I've got some that I picked up with a gift card a while back and haven't come up with another beer that I want to use them in quite yet.

 

[slickfish]

I just found a year old vial of bug country in the fridge. Any chance it's still good?

 

[finsfan]

I just found a year old vial of bug country in the fridge. Any chance it's still good?

That bugs should be. I would pitch it with a vial/pack of saach just to get things moving.

 

[slickfish]

Would it help to make a starter ?

 

[finsfan]

Would it help to make a starter ?

I wouldnt. Bugs can last a long time compared to saach, especially at fridge temps.

 

[barrooze]

I wouldnt. Bugs can last a long time compared to saach, especially at fridge temps.

Do you think an Abbey-style strain or a saison strain would be preferred over an English or American strain? I think I've heard that the bugs will eat esters, which would point towards an estery Belgian strain. (I'm in the same boat as slickfish, hence my add-on question. )

 

[finsfan]

Do you think an Abbey-style strain or a saison strain would be preferred over an English or American strain? I think I've heard that the bugs will eat esters, which would point towards an estery Belgian strain. (I'm in the same boat as slickfish, hence my add-on question. )

In american sour beers he mentions that a lot of sour breweries use saison yeast. I would use a belgian strain over a neutral strain.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Yup - Read The Tonsmiere - LOL

Pick a commercial brewery sour you like from the book and read up on how they get the flavor profile.

 

[finsfan]

Yup - Read The Tonsmiere - LOL

Pick a commercial brewery sour you like from the book and read up on how they get the flavor profile.

Great point. You can use just about any saach strain along with bugs/bacteria from the beginning, but I personally have used/would use a saison or at least belgian strain.

 

[barrooze]

I recall getting my vial around January of last year, so I think this Facebook post says what is in the January 2014 batch:

The limited release for ECY20 BugCounty is approaching (Nov/Dec). A few facts - there is no bulk yeast strain and no Acetobacter in the mix.

There will be a total of 20 organisms in the culture: Brettanomyces yeast make up the bulk of the blend (15 strains/species) including bruxellensis, lambicus, clausenii, anomala, custersianus, nanus, naardenensis. Bretts from the old ECY blends #1 and # 9 are back including not one but two stains from Drie Font. Also the brett from ECY03 was included of course.

A wild yeast isolated from gueuze was added called Pichia membranefacians. Although very little impact is expected from this oxidative yeast (no acetic acid was detected), it is likely to assist in pellicle formation.

Two Saccharomyces yeast are included. One a sherry yeast, the second a close relative of S. cerevisae called S. paradoxus. Paradoxus has been linked to wine additions for its aromatic properties, pectinase activity, and the ability to partially convert malic to lactic acid.

Finally, two lactobacilli are added with a healthy dose of slime-producing Pediococcus. Slime produced will dissapear and be consumed by Bretts adding more complexitiy.

BugCounty is intended for all kinds of wild beers - especially lambic-style ales, Oud Brune/Flemish red ales. BugCounty will infect any beer.

There's actually no Sacch. cerevisae in the vial, which I find interesting. Regardless, I think I'll pitch a pack of Danstar Belle Saison or Abbaye into the wort when I pitch the vial, just to make sure there's enough viable cells to make it a party.

 

[signpost]

That is some great info. Like I had posted earlier, the ECY website mentions the Pichia being in the current blend, so it is cool to get a tiny bit more information about that one.

But the site also says this round has something called Kloeckera, which I am guessing is also some sort of non-Sacch-cerevisiae wild yeast. It would be great if somebody could dig up more info on that one. I tried the googles, but didn't come up with much.