Budgeting

[Rypcord]

Not counting equipment (which is generally, a static one time buy - albeit not including upgrades or mishaps), what is the general budget you guys spend monthly/yearly on ingredients/etc?

$ for Starsan/cleaner?
$ for ingredients?
$ for hops? (Just asking seperately of ingredients, for general knowledge)
$ for bottles/kegs/etc?


Thanks!

 

[BeardedBrews]

It's probably more useful to consider the budget on a per-batch basis.

Sanitizer - I save my star-san in jugs so I can reuse the 5 gallons at least twice. $0.50/batch

Grain and Adjuncts - ~$1.25/# Typically $15 in a batch

Hops - ~$2/oz Typically $8 in a batch

Packaging - I keg, ~$2 in CO2. When I bottled I re-used bottles out of the recycling so ~$1.50 in priming sugar and caps.

Enegry/Water/Fuel - $5 I have no idea what this costs me, I don't care to know

A 5 gallon batch for $25-30 including all costs is probably reasonable for all-grain.
Add $5-10/batch if you're doing extract.
Subtract $5-10/batch if you can buy ingredients in bulk.

 

[schematix]

Sanitizer - I save my star-san in jugs so I can reuse the 5 gallons at least twice. $0.50/batch

5 gallons? Why so much?

I make up a 32oz bottle and it lasts me 3 brews, including kegging.

 

[BeardedBrews]

5 gallons? Why so much?

I make up a 32oz bottle and it lasts me 3 brews, including kegging.

Mostly because I'm lazy and the cost is very low.

I usually make up a full keg of star-san, then use CO2 to push it out of the keg and purge the keg of O2 before filling. Then that 5 gallons will fill up my spray bottles and splash down the outsides of my transfer equipment, leaving me ~4.5 gallons for next batch.

I keep down that path until the pH jumps, or the solution gets really cloudy, then I dump it. For me, I'd rather spend the $0.75 and have more than enough solution to work with.

 

[jerbrew]

By far the greatest expense will be your hops and yest. harvesting and reusing yeast will cut your costs. using a starter instead of buying two smack packs or vials will save you money. If you're able to and worried about cost dry yeast is significantly cheaper. You can get 3-packs of us-05 for $12 on amazon or wlp001 for $8 pretty much everywhere. Hops can range in price based off of variety and how much you buy. for example, right now at Yakima valley hops a pound of 2015 bravo is 9.99, cascade is 15.99, and amarillo is 24.99. IIPAs will cost you more just in hops alone whereas an amber will cost you near nothing.

For myself, I jsut brewed an APA that cost me about 35 when you include propane, water, sanitizer. Just brewed a hef that cost even less but i'm planning on a IIPA soon to rid my freexer of hops that might ring up near $60-70

Homewbrew supply has a recipe builder that can give you an idea of what a batch would cost if you bought it batch by batch every brew

http://www.homebrewsupply.com/homebrew-recipe-builder

as mentioned above though there are a lot of ways of cutting back dollars here and there

 

[BeardedBrews]

I did neglect to mention the yeast, good catch Jerbrew.

Saving yeast from one batch to the next is incredibly simple, it's almost a shame not to do it.

 

[Rypcord]

I'm growing my own hops (to start/help out), so that will cut a few costs, but I know not a whole lot.

 

[kh54s10]

Not counting equipment (which is generally, a static one time buy - albeit not including upgrades or mishaps), what is the general budget you guys spend monthly/yearly on ingredients/etc?

$ for Starsan/cleaner?
$ for ingredients?
$ for hops? (Just asking seperately of ingredients, for general knowledge)
$ for bottles/kegs/etc?


Thanks!

Starsan. I am using my original 16 ounce bottle that I bout 5 years ago. Cost is negligible.

Ingredients average about 12 lbs at about $1.40/lb x 17 batches per year.

Hops - no budget, buy what I need for a recipe, what is on sale...

Kegs 2 with a kit for $219 and another 2 for $90 Co2 when needed. $30 - lasts a couple months.

Yeast? I reuse yeast, freeze yeast and liquid and dry so I cannot say how much it costs. I estimate about $4 per 5 gallon batch.

Bottles, I bought enough for my first batch, no time to collect and de-label enough - since then I have collected, by saving my own and asking friends for empties. I have about 700 bottles - most were free.

Another expense is propane - maybe 4-5 batches per fill up. - $12

NO BUDGET... I get what I need when I need it. Buy bulk grains, and hops, reuse and freeze yeast. This winter I bought 4 pounds of hops for $7 or $8 each and one pound free on a sale.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I really enjoy growing hops, but I'm not sure anyone has ever saved money that way.

The biggest savings is always going to be buying in bulk or not buying at all. Looking at the three ingredients + overhead in brewing:

Malt - Switching from extract to all-grain is a big cost savings. Buying grain in bulk drove my malt costs even lower. Malt for a 1.060 beer usually costs me ~$10.

Hops - Buying in bulk here is where you'll get the savings. It's $2/oz from the LHBS, but I end up spending more like $1/oz buying it by the pound online and saving it in the freezer.

Yeast - The $6-8/batch in yeast can go down to $0 if you save and re-use your yeast. It really is as simple as swirling up the bottom of your last batch and pouring it into a pint jar. There are more advanced ways to do this, including building starters, but if you brew often enough to always have a batch fermenting you can easily just save and re-pitch.

Cleaning and Overhead - Save your no-rinse sanitizer, use the excess water to feed your plants, re-use your bottles from previous batches (or ask a bar for a bucket of them), buy caps online in bulk. The per-batch costs here are pretty low, so there isn't much you can save.


For example, my last 5-gallon batch of Centennial Blonde cost me $7.78 in ingredients:
7.5# 2-Row = $4.65
1.75# Specialty = $2.19
.5oz Centennial = $0.47
.5oz Cascade = $0.47
Yeast = $0.00 (An Oktoberfest had just finished, so I saved a pint of that WLP820 slurry)

 

[Sourz4life]

Its hard to say as it all depends if your bottling this time, kegging this time, if your re-using yeast, etc. So for everyone it could be completely different. For instance if I were to buy a beer gun I would cut the cost of priming sugar. If I re-used my yeast I would cut that cost. If I were re-using bottles I'd cut that as well. Then of course it depends how much you brew on the hops/grain bill. I'd with 2 brew days a month I'm spending about 40-60 a month depending on the grain bill, adjuncts, c02 refill, etc. Some months I may be even spending 80-100 so its hard to range it.

 

[pshankstar]

Like others have said... I started buying my grains in bulk, so that helps keep the costs down. I do the same with hops too. I look for deals from vendors here or other online shops, sometimes my LHBS will have 1# hops that are hard to get or cheaper than online (i.e. Citra). I harvest my yeast and try to reuse them when possible. I started looking into buying expired liquid yeast and building them back up. A $10 vial or smack pack can be $2 expired.

So I have no real budget at this point, but I can say with buying in bulk it is cheaper. Now I just have more of an urge to brew more often b/c of all the ingredients I have laying around...

 

[BeardedBrews]

Now I just have more of an urge to brew more often b/c of all the ingredients I have laying around...

I think this is the most important point on this thread.

Let's say you're just starting out and you've got $150 burning a hole in your pocket, and about $50/month in "beer money" that you can spend.

You drop $100 on the kit for extract brewing, and $50 on an extract kit and off you go. 4 weeks later your beer is done, tastes like beer you would have spent money on, and you just got this month's $50 in beer money! You buy your next kit, get it started, and then 2 weeks later you're thinking about the next kit.

Now you're in trouble, you only have $50/month, but you want to brew twice. Solution: Build your own kit! You go online, drop your $50 on enough extract and hops to make TWO WHOLE BATCHES!

One more month of that and now every weekend you're wishing you could brew. Solution: All Grain! Now that $50 will let you brew FOUR WHOLE BATCHES! (Just don't tell the wife I blew another $200 on a bigger kettle and immersion chiller)


This same cycle works if you've got $20/month or $200/month, the only difference is how much beer you have to give away.

 

[Rypcord]

Thanks for all the info everyone.

Really appreciate it.

So, lessons learned:

1) Balk > Per Batch
2) All Grain > Extract
3) Re-use as much as possible.

 

[schematix]

I've spent vastly more on equipment than ingredients. I'd say by about 500%.

The reason for that is due to batch size and complexity of my process. Any batch size over 5G benefits greatly from pumps and larger more efficient burners.... which also means hoses (w/ disconnects), valves, lots of fittings, a plate or counter flow chiller, etc, etc.

Consider that equipment cost will vary almost linearly with batch sizes. Your 'savings' will be your time though.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Thanks for all the info everyone.

Really appreciate it.

So, lessons learned:

1) Balk > Per Batch
2) All Grain > Extract
3) Re-use as much as possible.

You nailed it!

Since equipment budget has come up, there are two key things to remember:

1. Buying better equipment is unlikely to make your beer better, just easier. The more you brew, the more value there is for ease-of-use in your equipment, and some pieces of equipment really should be purchased early on because they can save you so much trouble/effort.

2. There is very little penalty for buying brewing equipment that is bigger than you need right now, and much to be saved by not buying an upgrade in a few months.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Not counting equipment (which is generally, a static one time buy - albeit not including upgrades or mishaps), what is the general budget you guys spend monthly/yearly on ingredients/etc?

$ for Starsan/cleaner?
$ for ingredients?
$ for hops? (Just asking seperately of ingredients, for general knowledge)
$ for bottles/kegs/etc?


Thanks!

$ for Starsan/cleaner?
I use Lysol sanitizer @$14.99/gallon and use one ounce per batch. So 14.99/128 = $0.12 per batch.
$ for ingredients?
Typically about 11 lbs of grain @ $0.75/lb = $8.25.
$ for hops? (Just asking seperately of ingredients, for general knowledge)
I get the most commonly used hops by the pound and use up to around 2 oz/batch. So 19.99/16*2 = $2.50. I commonly use US-05 @ $4.
$ for bottles/kegs/etc?
After kegging I plan on 6 - 12 oz beers. Caps are $4.25 for ~110 caps. 4.25/110*6 = $.23. CO2 is 15 bucks for a tank exchange and will last about 15 kegs before it's spent. Easy math... a dollar.

Grand total...
$16.10/batch

This number can go up and down easily depending on variables such as quantity, variety, and sales price, but it's cheap at twice the price. Where else can you pick up a twelve of some good beer for under 7 bucks?!?

 

[PADave]

NO BUDGET... I get what I need when I need it.

This. I don't have a set amount. I always try to have ingredients on hand to brew my next one or two brews. If I see a sale or need something, I buy it.

 

[kh54s10]

$ for Starsan/cleaner?
I use Lysol sanitizer @$14.99/gallon and use one ounce per batch. So 14.99/128 = $0.12 per batch.
$ for ingredients?

Lysol sanitizer?? I wonder if that is food grade?? I would sit on a toilet seat that was sanitized with it. But I doubt I would eat/drink anything that was sanitized with it.

How are you getting grains for a batch at $.75/pound? I haven't even seen where you can get group buys for that low for all the different types.

 

[Staylow]

For an average beer (average hopping rate and average ABV), I'm usually right around $30 for a 5 gallon batch. That's everything factored in, from ingredients and water to propane, shipping costs, cleaning and sanitizing, and all miscellaneous items. I brew about 20-25 batches per year. So, about $750 on the low end.

I don't brew from December through February, unless the weather starts getting nice again early, as I'm not fond of brewing in the cold. This also helps keep brewing from conflicting with the holidays. During this time, I get a good idea of what I'll be brewing over the next year. It always changes, but I end up brewing about 75% or more of what I laid out. In February, I'll order a boatload of hops from farmhouse brewing supply - several mixed lbs of hops, totaling about $150 shipped. After that, it's rare that I buy any more hops through the year. I buy base malt in 50 lb bags from a local brewery at $30/bag, and typically go through 4 or 5 of those per year. I then plan out 4-5 beers at a time and order all specialty grains, yeast and extras i need at once to save on shipping costs (no LHBS here). So, 4-5 orders per year there.

I'm gearing up right now to start a frozen yeast bank, which will dramatically cut my yeast costs. From roughly $8 per batch, to maybe $.25. Factor in DME for starters, and it's probably $1 per batch. Will have to wait and see.

I buy RO water from the grocery store at about $5 for 10 gallons. I build my water profiles from scratch and have enough breweing salts to last years, so that cost is negligible. Propane is roughly $20 per tank and I get 4-5 batches out of one. Whirlfloc and yeast nutrient is approx $2/batch. I estimate C02 at $1 per batch.

In the summer when ground water reaches high temps, I hook up a pre-chiller in an old bottling bucket with a 20 lb bag of ice, which costs about $5.

I mix 5 gallons of RO water ($2.50) with Starsan ($.50) in a 5 gallon Lowes bucket and that typically lasts through 5 batches, until it either gets low, gets cloudy, or begins to collect a lot of junk in the bottom of the bucket.

I approximate PBW by mixing OxiClean free with TSP-90 at a 3:1 ratio. Oxi is about $7 for 3 lbs and TSP-90 is $12 for 4 lbs. So I get 16 lbs of cleaner for $40. Not sure how that breaks down per batch exactly, as I use that cleaner on my beer glasses and other things. I think I go through about 8 lbs per year.

Long story short (heh), while I actively look for ways to cut costs, I buy what I need, when I need it. I don't have a budget at all. Hopefully in all my rambling someone picked up some tips to save money.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Lysol sanitizer?? I wonder if that is food grade?? I would sit on a toilet seat that was sanitized with it. But I doubt I would eat/drink anything that was sanitized with it.

How are you getting grains for a batch at $.75/pound? I haven't even seen where you can get group buys for that low for all the different types.

Lysol no rinse sanitizer is food grade. The name alone threw me too, but I've been using it for quite some time without any problems. There has been a few conversations about it on HBT.

Main Brew is just down the street from me. One of my favorite local home brew places. Good folks there and an amazing taproom to boot!

 

[schematix]

Long story short (heh), while I actively look for ways to cut costs, I buy what I need, when I need it. I don't have a budget at all.

This is excellent advice. If you try to make it all about saving money it's not going to be fun. And if it's not fun, you'll be better off buying beer.

 

[55x11]

Not counting equipment (which is generally, a static one time buy - albeit not including upgrades or mishaps), what is the general budget you guys spend monthly/yearly on ingredients/etc?



$ for Starsan/cleaner?

$ for ingredients?

$ for hops? (Just asking seperately of ingredients, for general knowledge)

$ for bottles/kegs/etc?





Thanks!

Starsan is negligible expense. $15 lasts well over 40 batches.
I reuse yeast so $7 stretches over >10 batches. I do buy DME for starters but it's also small cost as $3-4 buys 3-4 starters worth and I often use wort itself for starters if I can time it properly.
Hops averages a bit over $1 per oz in bulk. Maybe about $1.20. But sometimes I buy smaller 2-4oz packets of specific rare or missing hop for maybe $2-2.50 per oz.
grain is $1 per lb for base malt (I sometimes buy 50lb for $40 which is $0.80 per lb) and $1.6-2 for specialty malts.
Propane is about $3 per brew (I do 10G-15G batches).
CO2 probably $2-3 per 5G keg. ?
Whirlflock, fermcap, yeast nutrients, gelatin (negligible), RO water and cleaning tap water, oxyclean, electric bill for Keezer add maybe another $3-4 per 5G batch?

I just brewed 15G double IPA for about $50 maybe $60 tops. So $20 per 5G batch. Same goes for some not too hoppy, moderate gravity, simple grain bill brews like red ale or milk stout or saison, about $20 per 5G. But $30 is probably more typical per batch.

The large costs are in my time and in various equipment (which is longer term investment). I estimate I spent $2.5K in equipment alone. I brewed 50 or so 5G batches but it's still about $50 per batch equipment investment. Will get cheaper as I brew more assuming I don't keep buying more stuff. Which is questionable.

 

[Rypcord]

Ok, for a beginner who has yet to brew anything.... all of this seems to be getting over my head.

Water profiles?
Yeast starters?

You don't need to use propane right? The stove works, especially for extracts, so I won't be using propane or anything like that.

What are brewing salts?

 

[schematix]

Ok, for a beginner who has yet to brew anything.... all of this seems to be getting over my head.

Water profiles?
Yeast starters?

You don't need to use propane right? The stove works, especially for extracts, so I won't be using propane or anything like that.

What are brewing salts?

Water profiles - has to do with the ion balance in the water (calcium, sodium, magnesium, chloride, sulfate, carbonate/bicarbonate). It effects flavor and also pH for all-grain brewing. Not 100% necessary to start, but you can evolve into this to make your good beer great.

Yeast starters - start with dry yeast. yeast starters are important when you start to make big beers and/or want to try something more unique.

Brewing salts - it's how to make your water profile.

Propane - when your batch sizes grow or you get impatient waiting an hour for a pot to boil.


You can start in your kitchen easily with 3-5G batches. But when you start going bigger, your kitchen doesn't have the power or space you'll need. Also putting that much humidity isn't your house isn't good, and your wife might hate the smell.

Also, brewing salts and water profiles are not important with extract brewing.

 

[Rypcord]

So just grain for the water profiles and whatnot?

Thanks schematix.


What's cheaper -- all grain or extract?

 

[schematix]

So just grain for the water profiles and whatnot?

Thanks schematix.


What's cheaper -- all grain or extract?

If you're doing an IPA you could add some gypsum or epsom salt to help brighten your hops. For just about anything else extract based you are best just starting with distilled water.

Equipment costs are less with extract.

Ingredient costs are less with all-grain.

Nearly everyone starts with extract and moves onto all-grain eventually, but don't feel bad about starting with extract until your comfort level increases. I did 4 batches with extract before turning to all grain. Some do more, some do less.

 

[FatDragon]

Sanitizer is negligible. I spend about $2.50 for a kilogram of sodium percarbonate for cleaning which lasts me at least a dozen brewdays (including bottle soaks and other various brewing and non-brewing uses), and sanitize with peracetic acid that costs about the same and gets similarly varied use. Probably $0.35/brewday.

Grain varies depending on whether I cheap out with perfectly acceptable local 2-row or get better imported malts. On a scale of a 4-5% ABV brew with local malts to a 10% ABV brew with imported malts, probably $5-$20/5 gallons, usually around $12 for most brews.

Hops set me back as little as $1-$2 for something with a minimal hop profile to ~$15 for an IPA with 200g of citra and simcoe. Probably $8 on average since I like my IPAs and APAs, but that will plummet if I determine that the locally-grown hops are of acceptable quality since I can get a couple commonly-used varieties at 1/4 the price.

I rarely harvest yeast and spend about $3.50/brew on a packet of dry yeast, more for some strains like Belle Saison.

I get my bottles free and caps are maybe $.050/batch.

Counting incidentals like water, natural gas, and electricity for the ferm chamber, I'm probably spending ~$25/batch on average, going as low as $12 and as high as $45 or so.

 

[Tactical-Brewer]

I buy stuff per batch. My most expensive so far has been an ESB which I think came in at 37 bucks and got 42 bottles. That includes everything, grain, hops, and yeast.

I brew monthly (wish it was more) but average about 25-40 a brew session I presume.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Ok, for a beginner who has yet to brew anything.... all of this seems to be getting over my head.

Water profiles?
Yeast starters?

You don't need to use propane right? The stove works, especially for extracts, so I won't be using propane or anything like that.

What are brewing salts?

So just grain for the water profiles and whatnot?

What's cheaper -- all grain or extract?

Your stove is fine for now. You can always upgrade later when you see your need for it. Brewing salts, starters, water profiles are all things to worry about later still. Let's just get the basics down for now. Find a basic extract recipe and start from there.

Just jump in with both feet and brew your first batch. It'll be a great learning experience. It will probably turn out drinkable... it might not. Either way you should share your experiences and keep doing it. You'll get to the point where you prefer your own beer over any grocery store beer any day.

Oh, and all-grain is cheaper. Hands down.

 

[Rypcord]

Thanks for all the advice everyone!