OP
OP
Just a couple of handfuls. I will report performance and times once I mill a whole hoppers worth!
BrunDog 50A eRig - no HLT for me!
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The_Bishop
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Please do. I've been looking to motorize my bucket top monster mill for a while, haven't seen a good motor for it yet.
I'm in the same boat. I dont have space for a stand dedicated for my mill. Additionally all the motors I have seen are at least $60, but you still have to get a gear reduction box for them.
OP
OP
This one was $70 and the coupling was $10 + a few dollars to ship it. The bracket was free to me, but you could make up an L bracket with just about anything. No additional cost to the mill as the only thing needed is to rotate the mill on the wood. You also need a decent power supply, but it was free again to me as I had an old computer brick power supply on hand. There is an inexpensive 12V power supply linked to the motor's webpage.
Now, in truth my supply provides 15V. The motor rating according to the description on the site says 13.5V, so it is probably geared (pun intended) for automotive applications. I figured another 1.5V is within tolerance and I am not running it for more than a few minutes. I didn't see/hear any strain on the motor with this supply. I do not know what a 12V supply would do. That 3V difference may be valuable as that's 25% more power.
I should be doing a brew in a few days - will report!
Now, in truth my supply provides 15V. The motor rating according to the description on the site says 13.5V, so it is probably geared (pun intended) for automotive applications. I figured another 1.5V is within tolerance and I am not running it for more than a few minutes. I didn't see/hear any strain on the motor with this supply. I do not know what a 12V supply would do. That 3V difference may be valuable as that's 25% more power.
I should be doing a brew in a few days - will report!
BrunDog do you mind sharing your arduino sketch for your fly sparge flow control? I'm looking into doing something similar on my setup.
Curious to see the results of how long it takes to mill a full hopper of grain. I could use a smaller motor like this as I'm toying with the idea of mounting it to a kettle lid to mill right into the mash tun. I'm going to be testing heating the strike in the HLT and filling the MLT with dry grain and then transferring strike water from HLT to MLT underletting the grain.
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I tried the "gasket" made of silicone tubing and it didn't do much. Paired with a "weight" (a brick) on the lid it worked better but not enough that I could leave it. If I get around to trying other options I'll post.
I started doing this. Fill the MT with dry grain then slowly pump strike water into the bottom of the MT. No need to use a mash paddle anymore. I haven't seen any effect on my efficiency so Im pretty sure I'm not getting any dough balls.
Good to know! Do you not stir your mash at all? Do you run a continuous recirulation?
(Sorry BrunDog for the OT!)
OP
OP
No, I love the discussion! I thought about being able to put the grain into the MLT and walk away but of course my 2 vessel design would not support that unless I controlled the incoming water temp carefully (possible) and re-routed the water through the bottom drain or another port (not practical as it would require another 3 way electric valve).
For the sake of discussion, I did consider a remote mill/chute design, which would be a better approach for my rig, but it's probably a level of automation that is not needed... At least not yet!
For the sake of discussion, I did consider a remote mill/chute design, which would be a better approach for my rig, but it's probably a level of automation that is not needed... At least not yet!
Correct, no stirring the mash at all. Haven't touched my mash paddle for the last 7 or 8 brews. I have a herms setup so I am continously recirulating the entire mash.
OP
OP
What temp is the strike water when you pump it in? Same as a single infusion?
Yup same as a single infusion. 11f higher than the first rest temp. There is some temperature stratification initially, but it all settles out after 10 min of recirulation.
OP
OP
I guess that would be a consideration. With recirculation before doughing-in (done that way on my rig, anyway), or pumping over heated strike water (most HLT systems), everything reaches a nearly equal temp (kettle, tubing, recirc hardware, etc.). Via underletting, the local grain is exposed to much hotter water, then as the water spreads to the edges, heat is pulled out into the kettle. This would create temp differences for some period of time, depending on how quickly the water is introduced (~5 minutes?).
In theory/worse case scenario, the local grain gets overheated and the edge grain starts converting at a lower temp than desired. I don't know if this would amount to a hill of beans, just something to consider.
I typically try to dough in as quickly as possible to get uniform temps fast. I get the grain in quick, give a couple of stirs, then get the re-circulation going ASAP. I am not big into stirring the mash for 5 mins like some guys do on their YouTube vids. Probably too anal, but hey that's me!
BTW I will send you my sketch. Just need to pull it out of the programming laptop, which I don't fire up unless I am editing it.
In theory/worse case scenario, the local grain gets overheated and the edge grain starts converting at a lower temp than desired. I don't know if this would amount to a hill of beans, just something to consider.
I typically try to dough in as quickly as possible to get uniform temps fast. I get the grain in quick, give a couple of stirs, then get the re-circulation going ASAP. I am not big into stirring the mash for 5 mins like some guys do on their YouTube vids. Probably too anal, but hey that's me!
BTW I will send you my sketch. Just need to pull it out of the programming laptop, which I don't fire up unless I am editing it.
Even with underletting, I'll still be mixing. I use a mortar mixer in my drill and can thoroughly mix in a few seconds. On a 60 minute mash, I mix at 60, 45, 30 & 15 minutes. With the continuous recirc, I still run clear since it has 15 minutes to settle out before I start fly sparging.
OP
OP
I didn't see a mixer Jon. Is that something that is in the works or you just didn't photo it?
Any idea if this is a bad idea for single infusion without recirculating?
Right now I'm just using a rectangular cooler, and ideally I like to throw the grain in a bag for easier cleanup (which is counter productive for mixing the grain and water on mash in...).
I've been using this for a while. It's just a mortar mixer I put in my cordless drill.
OP
OP
brewApprentice, I don't understand your question. If you do single infusion in a cooler, you heat your strike water to a temperature that your software calculates, which takes into consideration ambient temperature, the materials of the mash tun, and the amount and temperature of your grains. You can then fine tune with a bit of cool or hot water, then seal it up for an hour or so. The cooler is insulated and helps prevent temp differences and any need to recirculate. You likely know all that already, but I would assume you are asking about the impact of putting the grains in a bag. I would say... just do it. You could drop the bag with grains in at one time, stir inside the bag, then seal it up.
Thanks BrunDog. Stirring inside the bag gets tricky since usually I end up with so much grain the bag has to sit horizontally in the cooler (10 gallon batches).
The big thing I was concerned about is shocking the grain with the strike water filling from the bottom since I'll likely not have as much heat diffusion as splashing water on the grain from the top.
Conversely no mix brings up the dough-ball and mash efficiency debate...
Either way, I like your answer... "Just do it."
I'll stop taking this thread anymore off topic. Thanks for the feedback!
The big thing I was concerned about is shocking the grain with the strike water filling from the bottom since I'll likely not have as much heat diffusion as splashing water on the grain from the top.
Conversely no mix brings up the dough-ball and mash efficiency debate...
Either way, I like your answer... "Just do it."
I'll stop taking this thread anymore off topic. Thanks for the feedback!
OP
OP
I would put the water in the cooler, then lower the grain bag in as fast as it will absorb water and go in. If you can't stir, no biggie. At some point in the mash it would be valuable to move the grain a bit to ensure some mixing of the sugar water and enzymes. Maybe squish the bag back and forth for a few seconds. At that same time, maybe add a few cups of hot water to keep he temp of the mash up where you started.
OP
OP
Guys, in the middle of a brew, wanted to post how fast (or slow, depending on your perspective) the mill took with this motor. It milled 8 lbs of grain (2 row, Crystal, and Munich to be specific) in just under 6 minutes.
So definitely not LHBS speed, but for me it's plenty fast. I had plenty of other things to do in the meantime. It required no babysitting, never strained or stuttered, and cleanup was a breeze as usual. It also did not need a "running start" as I started it with the hopper full, and the gap is 0.0038", so I would say this motor has plenty of torque. Pretty stoked!
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1457188456.910048.jpg
So definitely not LHBS speed, but for me it's plenty fast. I had plenty of other things to do in the meantime. It required no babysitting, never strained or stuttered, and cleanup was a breeze as usual. It also did not need a "running start" as I started it with the hopper full, and the gap is 0.0038", so I would say this motor has plenty of torque. Pretty stoked!
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1457188456.910048.jpg
Very nice! I love how compact it is. Very small footprint for a motorized mill. I want to do mine now, so I don't have to hold the drill on low speed! Well done!
John
John
BrunDog - I really like the compactness of this setup, but that's going to be too slow for me. I'm usually 30-40 lbs of grain. Do you know what your RPM speed is on that motor?
jcav - Get a reusable zip tie to hold the trigger! It's what I used to do and it has built in "fine adjustment" LOL.
jcav - Get a reusable zip tie to hold the trigger! It's what I used to do and it has built in "fine adjustment" LOL.
The_Bishop
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That's not bad at all. What did you use as a power supply?
OP
OP
@JonW: yes, for that much grain you would need to plan in advance. Anyway, the motor is 50 rpm.
@The_Bishop: see a few posts above. It's an old laptop power supply. 15V, 6A.
@The_Bishop: see a few posts above. It's an old laptop power supply. 15V, 6A.
I went looking at that same motor on Amazon, it looks like they also make a 100rpm version which has lower torque, but probably still plenty for milling grain. Maybe an option for those who want it to run faster?
I think I'll be snagging one of those 50rpm motors myself, I have the same grain mill and that looks like a great solution. Like you say I'm not too bothered about the speed as I can fill the hopper and leave it to its own devices whilst I get on with other things.
I think I'll be snagging one of those 50rpm motors myself, I have the same grain mill and that looks like a great solution. Like you say I'm not too bothered about the speed as I can fill the hopper and leave it to its own devices whilst I get on with other things.
