Brown Ale Critique-Your thoughts?

[Brewsncrabs]

I brewed this for a small BJCP competition and scored a 33 in category 10C, American Brown. Most of the notes were positive. One note that I am trying to correct stated "After a very promising aroma, the flavor falls a bit short. Both malt and hops are a bit subdued for a bold style like this. Kicking up both ends will bring it in line."

I agree with what was noted. The aroma was what I was looking for as it smelled just like graham crackers and/or bready and nutty. The taste was good, but seemed muddled. I think I had too many ingredients in it so I redid the recipe. I also will be switching the yeast from WL007 To Wyeast 1450 Denny's 50 as it has become my go to Brown Ale yeast.

Original recipe was:

7 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 5 56.9 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Munich 10L (Weyermann) (10.0 SRM) Grain 6 11.4 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 7 7.6 %
1 lbs Carabrown (Crisp)(55.0 SRM) Grain 8 7.6 %
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM) Grain 9 7.6 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 10 3.8 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 11 3.8 %
3.0 oz Pale Chocolate (Crisp) (225.0 SRM) Grain 12 1.4 %

OG was 1.064 and it finished a little high at 1.023 instead of 1.015.

Revised recipe is below with the same hop schedule for both. I use RO water treated with Calcium Chloride and Gypsum using Brun Water. OG is 1.059. IBU 37.9.

7 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Muntons) (3.0 SRM) Grain 5 61.2
1 lbs 8.0 oz Carabrown (Crisp)(55.0 SRM) Grain 6 12.2 %
1 lbs Crystal Dark - 77L (Crisp) (75.0 SRM) Grain 7 8.2 %
1 lbs Munich 10L (Weyermann) (10.0 SRM) Grain 8 8.2 %
16.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 9 4.1 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 10 4.1 %
4.0 oz Pale Chocolate (Crisp) (225.0 SRM) Grain 11 2.0 %

Hop Schedule
0.75 oz Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 12 16.9 IBUs
0.75 oz Willamette [4.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 13 12.4 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 14 -
0.75 oz Willamette [4.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 16 4.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 17 4.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Willamette [4.90 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 19 0.0 IBUs


Everyone loved the original and the score isnt all that bad. I would just like to tweak it a little bit. Please let me know your thoughts. Cheers!
Chris

 

[Brewsncrabs]

Anyone have some input?


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[RichBrewer]

I have always struggled to get the good malty flavor I love in a brown ale. I recently found this thread for a Moose Drool Clone.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-big-sky-moose-drool-175358/
I know Moose Drool isn't what you are shooting for but I brewed this and it turned out to be the best beer I have ever made. The malt profile and mouth feel is almost perfect for my taste.
Here is the grain bill for 6 gallons:
10.8 lbs domestic pale malt or 7.4 lbs pale LME
5.5 ounces chocolate malt 400l
1.25 lbs crystal 75-80
0.5 ounce black patent 525l
The only thing I can figure is the crystal malt had to play a major part in the malt profile. I have never used this much before. The chocolate malt would provide roasted flavor and the black patent would be for color only.

I'm probably not helping much but I am trying to figure this out as well. I will be interested to see what you find out.

 

[Brewsncrabs]

I have made multiple batches of CYBI clone of Moose Drool. Denny's Yeast works the best IMHO. It's what inspired this recipe.


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[Brewsncrabs]

I use pale chocolate as I don't like a coffee roasty taste. It's very nice chocolate and slight roast taste.


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[Weezy]

Here's my thoughts...

You're base malt is barely 60% of the beer; you've got a lot of specialty stuff in there at hefty percentages. This will lead to a high FG and muddy the flavor more than it needs. 8-12% of any specialty is quite a lot.

I don't see the need for carapils. Maris otter is a full malt. I don't think you need a body builder. This isn't a dry beer without it.

Similarly, MO should give you plenty of biscuit. I don't see the point to the victory layered on top of it.

Munich sounds good.

I'd suggest bumping the pale chocolate to 4%.

I've never used carabrown so i'll defer to your preference here.

Maybe????
MO 78%
Carabrown 5%
C77 8%
Munich 5%
P.choc 4%
Carapils 0%
Victory 0%

 

[Brewsncrabs]

Thanks Weezy. I'm going for a graham cracker flavor so that's why the carabrown is high, per manufacturer suggestions. I don't like a coffee flavor so that's why I keep the pale chocolate low. That's the percentage I use in my Moose Drool clone. I was torn about both the carapils and victory thinking along your lines but I left them in as I just mashed in. We will see what happens this time and look to remove them in version 1.3. I will definitely bump up the MO next time. I'll keep you posted. Thanks so much for the advice!


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[Brewsncrabs]

This batch is now almost gone due to my wife's 50th birthday party. Flavors were good using some of the suggestions above, but graham cracker was non existent. Nobody got that flavor. I used the carabrown per manufacturers suggestions so I am not sure why the flavor wasn't there. Next time I will lose the victory and increase the Maris. I will also age longer as the flavors are getting better. Any more thoughts would be appreciated.


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[Milan37]

You might consider simplifying the recipe even more so you can isolate how the flavors contribute a little more successfully. Even your revised recipe has 7 different malts. So how about this:

11 lb MO (81.5%)
2 lb CaraBrown (14.8%)
.5 lb Pale Chocolate (3.7%)

Comes out on the light side, color-wise, for an American Brown, but it might help understand how Carabrown contributes.

A useful exercise might be to sit down with your recipe and write out why you included a given malt, and what flavor contribution you expect from it in the amount you have. You have obviously given some thought to the Pale Chocolate, but what about the rest? What do they (in the amounts in the recipe) contribute? Are there any that are pretty similar?

 

[Brewsncrabs]

Thanks. I'll run that through Beersmith. There could be some redundancy with the Maris, carabrown,and Munich all throwing a little bready or biscuit flavor. I have the crystal in for color and flavor. The original recipe had the graham cracker flavor. I just tried to clean it up and simplify it and lost it.


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[MindenMan]

You might consider using Special Roast (50) and adjust your MO accordingly. Special Roast will give the bready, toasty, graham cracker, flavor you are looking for, at least it did for me. I used American 2 row, and with with the addition of the Special 50, even the judges thought it was MO. YMMV

 

[Brewsncrabs]

Thank you. I will check that out.


Beer and crabs were meant for each other!