British Ale Yeast Question

[Ollie8000]

I have started pitching yeast from one brew onto the next. I'm not doing anything complicated: once a week I brew a new beer, transfer the last one to a secondary and pitch the dregs into the new beer (that's the plan anyway, I've now done this once).

I am planning three beers with this system, using the same yeast: a dark mild, a best bitter and an imperial stout. How to choose the best yeast? I'm not that concerned. I'm sure the first-order answer is that as long as I choose something at least vaguely appropriate everything will go swimmingly. However, I'm curious to learn how those more experienced than me approach the situation.

The issue that makes me ask at all is that none of the first-choice yeasts for each beer overlap. Here's the plan.

Beer 1: A dark mild, specifically Mild Mannered Ale, which calls for Nottingham (but plenty of people report success with other yeasts).

Beer 2: A best bitter, slightly tweaking a recipe that we're drinking now, that used Wyeast 1968 (London ESB ale).

Beer 3: An imperial stout. This one is most up in the air as far as recipe goes, but the basic plan is to make a hybrid of two moderately successful recipes that used Windsor and Wyeast Scottish ale yeast (1728) respectively.

To add to the mix, I have s-04 on hand anyway, so using that would save me a few dollars.

Refining Beer 2 makes me want to go with Wyeast 1968; Mild Mannered Ale sounds delicious and I'd rather not muck around with it; s-04 means using what I have rather than spending money. What to do? More importantly, how should I think about the question?

 

[brownni5]

What you want to do is sound - people do it all the time. I would consider a couple things: how dark is the mild vs the bitter? Most try to avoid pitching light onto a dark cake so the lighter beer doesn't become muddled, both in flavor and appearance. Second, you might want to consider the OG and desired FG of the big stout. Some of the British strains peter out at high ABV - Scottish Ale yeast isn't one of them. A friend of mine treats it as his house yeast. I bet it would make a fine malty mild, but not sure about the bitter.

I bet the 1968 would make at least passable versions of each. Lots of people like S-04 - it would be fine for each, too.

Most importantly, make the beer you want to make.

 

[Ollie8000]

Thanks. Good call on the mild vs. the best. I sorted them by increasing OG, but they're both low enough that the order shouldn't matter. I'll switch them.

I'm leaning towards 1968 as it's the best that's closest to the honing in stage. I'll keep mulling it over and probably end up making the final call at the last second in the store.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

as long as I choose something at least vaguely appropriate everything will go swimmingly.

This.

However personally I wouldn't use Nottingham for a mild, I'd use a yeast with lower attenutation and more character. Historically most homebrew recipes originating in the UK use either Lallemand or Fermentis dried yeast, which meant for British styles Nottingham or S-04 were the default. But that doesn't mean they're the ideal option, just what's most readily available here.

More importantly, how should I think about the question?

Remember that traditional British breweries don't use homebrew yeast - they have a house yeast that they use for just about everything (including, in the 1970s, lager with predictably bad results). These were typicallly multistrains that included at least one very characterful, low attenuation strain with poor flocculation, and a blander, higher attenuation strain that dropped more cleanly. They cleaned up their strains when they moved to conicals in the 1970s, down to 1 or 2 strains, but it's hard to get all the brewing characteristics you want from just one strain, which is why S-04 is so popular as the dry yeast coming closest to the all-round performance of a British multistrain. Windsor and Nottingham are a good example of the two main sorts of British yeast and allegedly come from the same multistrain; some homebrewers try to recreate it by pitching Windsor and then Notty 48 hours later for extra attenuation and flocculation. Adding a pinch (5-10%) of T-58 or bread yeast can also add interest. But obviously managing multiple strains can get a bit of a handful if you're repitching.

Probably the limiting factor here is the RIS, as many of the more interesting British strains struggle in high ABV. So for that I'd suggest WLP540 Abbey IV (Wyeast 1762 - Belgian Abbey II is probably similar) which is actually a fruity, non-phenolic British yeast that's adapted to the high ABVs of Belgian dark beers but will work nicely in the smaller stuff. Otherwise WLP041 Pacific Ale, another "exiled" British yeast is probably my favourite homebrew yeast I've tried so far for British styles, it just has that easy drinkability. Some people really like Imperial A09 Pub but I've not tried it.

But it's really a question of finding the one that works best for you and using that one house yeast for all your British beers - it just needs to have some character and not too much attenuation. It's a good time to experiment at the moment as White Labs are releasing all their Vault strains by 1 July- you might want to try the likes of WLP022, WLP025, WLP026 and WLP050.

 

[Ollie8000]

Thanks! More good stuff to think about.

There's been a slight change of plan. I have two primary fermentors and I was going to have one doing this British sequence and an American sequence in the other. However, we've realised that we're enjoying drinking the Bristish styles we have at the moment, so we're going all out on that next. So, the ideas here have two buckets to play with. Current plan:

Bucket 1. Wyeast 1968 (Londond ESB): Best -> Mild -> ??

Bucket 2. Wyeast 1728 (Scottish Ale): Mild -> Imperial Stout.

It's tempting to sneak a third into the Bucket 2 between the mild and the stout, but given the wait for the stout to condition I'm looking to brew that asap. I don't have to make a decision about the third for Bucket 1 yet. Given my brewing rate, picking up ingredients for 3 or 4 brews at a time is about right and the above will cover that. I'll probably go for a strongish brown ale or a porter or something like that, or maybe a strong-but-not-imperial stout.

Those WLP yeasts do sound interesting. I'm pretty sure that my LHBS doesn't carry them though. Unless there's something I'm desperate for, I'd rather give my money to the LHBS, so I'll experiment with the Wyeast options first. Maybe I'll get to those in future if I don't find something I love. The 1762 might well be the next one to play with.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

You've two buckets and are looking to do a RIS and a mild or "normal" stout/porter? That has partigyle written all over it....

While a porter could be one option, personally I'd go for a golden "best" with some modern British or European hops - but then that's what I tend to drink anyway.

I quite understand you wanting to support the LHBS - Wyeast 1332 is meant to be the equivalent of WLP041 but I've not used it. I find 1968 a bit dull to be honest, 1332 or 1762 would be more interesting.

However, White Labs emptying the Vault with orders received by 1 July is kinda a bit deal - I've been waiting nearly 3 years for some of those strains to be released, it's a bit of a one-off opportunity to get the rarities. https://whitelabs.com/yeast-vault

 

[cyberbackpacker]

@Northern_Brewer since this is a British Yeast thread, and with the vault emptying, are there any that you think are must try?

I have these ale yeasts currently ordered:

WLP006 Bedford British Ale Yeast

WLP026 Premium Bitter Ale Yeast

WLP076 Old Sonoma Ale Yeast

WLP033 Klassic Ale Yeast

WLP022 Essex Ale Yeast

 

[Ollie8000]

You've two buckets and are looking to do a RIS and a mild or "normal" stout/porter? That has partigyle written all over it....

While a porter could be one option, personally I'd go for a golden "best" with some modern British or European hops - but then that's what I tend to drink anyway.

I quite understand you wanting to support the LHBS - Wyeast 1332 is meant to be the equivalent of WLP041 but I've not used it. I find 1968 a bit dull to be honest, 1332 or 1762 would be more interesting.

However, White Labs emptying the Vault with orders received by 1 July is kinda a bit deal - I've been waiting nearly 3 years for some of those strains to be released, it's a bit of a one-off opportunity to get the rarities. https://whitelabs.com/yeast-vault

I think a partigyle is beyond me at the moment (I had no idea what it was when I first read your reply). Sounds cool, but one at a time is already enough to keep on top of!

The golden best is a good idea. I've seen a Timothy Taylor Landlord clone while randomly clicking links here and that's one of my go-to drinks when in the UK. Perhaps that'd make a good third one. (Not sure if that's the sort of thing you had in mind, but it's what sparked for me.)

The dullness of 1968 is perhaps part of the appeal, although I hadn't thought about it quite that way. I lived in England until my mid-twenties (early 2000s). The best we've made with 1968 is very much like the cheapest standard bitter you get in pubs that were still a little serious about traditional beer (rather than all the strong lagers and smoothflow bitters that seemed to be taking over, and which I also quite enjoy when I'm in the mood). There's nothing like that, as far as I know, in VT; the closest is that I can buy bottled Bass and Newky Brown. I do occasionally, but ideally beer is a local product.

If I can put such a beer into the regular rotation so that it's always there as a default choice when I don't want something fancier, then I'll be very happy.

I've poked around enough to realise that the vault release is a big deal, but I'm unsure whether it's the best choice for me. My process is imperfect (a generous description) and I'm not yet saving yeast strains, although I hope that that is in my future. I think that a rare strain might be wasted on me at the moment (or, possibly worse, it won't be and I'll make the best beer ever and never be able to make it again).

If the LHBS has 1332 I might go for that (and if it does but I don't, I almost certainly will go for at least one of that and 1762 on the next trip).

Thanks for giving me so much good stuff to chew on!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I think a partigyle is beyond me at the moment (I had no idea what it was when I first read your reply). Sounds cool, but one at a time is already enough to keep on top of!

Well if you ever plan a double brewday to fill both fermenters, then a partigyle is basically the same but with only one mash (with a bit more grain) and two sparges into separate containers, add a bit of the first runnings to the second runnings (and vice versa if the former needs diluting a bit) and then you have two boils etc as normal. It's how most commercial UK breweries operated historically, nowadays Fuller's are the main ones left.

The golden best is a good idea. I've seen a Timothy Taylor Landlord clone while randomly clicking links here and that's one of my go-to drinks when in the UK. Perhaps that'd make a good third one. (Not sure if that's the sort of thing you had in mind, but it's what sparked for me.)

Although Landlord is pale, golden usually implies no crystal at all. I guess when you were here there was only Boddies and a handful of the Exmoor Gold types at 4.5-5% with Goldings, but it's now become quite a thing to have something SMaSH-ish (pale with perhaps a bit of wheat and/or pilsner, and perhaps a separate cheaper bittering hop) at ~4.2% that shows off some fancy hop from eg NZ. They're my pub drink of choice, and a good way to explore hop varieties.

The dullness of 1968 is perhaps part of the appeal, although I hadn't thought about it quite that way. I lived in England until my mid-twenties (early 2000s). The best we've made with 1968 is very much like the cheapest standard bitter you get in pubs

Still, if you're looking to do British styles properly you want a yeast that has a bit more character - although you can't beat 1968 if you want something that floccs like a rock. And personally although I had a cracking 3.9% bitter only the other day, I think 4.2%-ish is the sweet spot.

I've poked around enough to realise that the vault release is a big deal, but I'm unsure whether it's the best choice for me. My process is imperfect (a generous description) and I'm not yet saving yeast strains, although I hope that that is in my future. I think that a rare strain might be wasted on me at the moment (or, possibly worse, it won't be and I'll make the best beer ever and never be able to make it again).

Yep - understand all that, although it's not too hard to maintain strains (just keep a couple of bottles of beer if you're really worried about it).