BrewPi Remix – What’s Old is New Again

[bloombrews]

Eventually, I got to get to the "bottom of this". Why I keep having dropped script connections, a couple times/day.
I tried everything - Different Pi, Controller, SD card, new version download, different temp probes, new approved power transformer. You can see I have a good router connection and the IP address stays the same before and after the drops.
And, this is also strange - sometimes I can do a -sudo systemctl restart brewpi, it up again. But when I refresh the browser after this command, , the script always shows I am running in "Beer Constant", even though I never was! But if I refresh yet a second time, it now miraculously now shows Beer Profile.
Here is after sudo systemctl restart brewpi,

the first refresh, and then a second refresh with nothing else touched. -

 

[LBussy]

Timing thing? The Arduino only sends data (by default) every 2 mins.

 

[bloombrews]

Is my Pi CPU overclocking, and freezing up?
I noticed that many of the times my Pi looses contact with the script, the Green light is constantly on, telling me it may be,froze in an overclock situation.
There are a lot of commands to use, to see what the CPU is doing at idle, and while under load. Not sure which ones to try, but anymore information will help at this point.

watch -n1 vcgencmd measure_clock arm
This shows in real time, the cpu frequency. It is bouncing between 700,000,000 and 800,000,000, and sometimes jumps to 1,200,000,000 (no commas on output reading, I put them in here). I assume this is 700-800 MHz, and 1,200 MHz ?
I will watch it, and hopefully see just before it freezes up, what the cpu is doing

Any thoughts?

 

[LBussy]

Is your Pi in a case? Does it have ventilation and/or heat sinks?

 

[bloombrews]

HOLLY FREEZUP, BatBeerMan!
You cant see, cause it was just frozen, but the CPU was clocking 1,200,000,000 ! I "normally" sits around 700,000 to 800,000 and may briefly spike to 1,400,000
The Temperature as it froze, was not too high 37,6C ? This seems to be normal -
I could not get CTRL+ALT+F1 to bring up a Terminal, to reboot, so I had to do a hard restart..... pull the plug
Any thoughts @day_trippr , @LBussy , or any other Genius Programmers out There ?
This also happened on other RPi's, and Controllers, but I never had up on the desktop, a running CPU temperature and Clock hertz speed

 

[bloombrews]

Is your Pi in a case? Does it have ventilation and/or heat sinks?

It sure does, @LBussy . It is the only thing that looks and works great, that does not look like it was "puked up", as @day_trippr said of my "build mess".
There is thermal paste under the Sinks, and a 5V fan exhausting.
I "think" I tried this exact setup, with a naked RaspberryPi, out of the cage, with no sinks or fans, and the same periodically freeze up happens...

 

[LBussy]

Take a new image and do not install BrewPi, just open the web browser and point it to the other one - let it sit a while and see what happens.

 

[bloombrews]

Take a new image and do not install BrewPi, just open the web browser and point it to the other one - let it sit a while and see what happens.

@LBussy , you lost me a little bit. I am a Master Plumber, and HVAC Mechanic, and only try to remember, what I was very good at, back in the late 1970"s
Are you saying - shut down the Pi, running the wifi, and Scripts/Graphs, and just let the Arduino chug along by itself (very good at that), and "point" to what?
We need to do a Go Fund Me, for you Lee!

 

[LBussy]

No I'm saying close all the windows and whatnot on your running setup and just leave it be. On a new Pi image, open the web browser to the other system's IP address and do teh same thing you did and see if the system you are on (with the web browser) locks up, or if the Pi running with just BrewPi and not running a web browser locks up.

 

[scubahiker]

I'm toying with the idea of switching to an e-herms, from a propane system. I've seen the electric brewery setup, while crazy nice, I'm just surprised there is not a software based solution similar to BrewPi. Am I missing something?

 

[LBussy]

I'm toying with the idea of switching to an e-herms, from a propane system. I've seen the electric brewery setup, while crazy nice, I'm just surprised there is not a software based solution similar to BrewPi. Am I missing something?

Most of those systems use hardware PID controllers. They are simple but very effective. You lose the bells and whistles of course.

 

[bloombrews]

I'm toying with the idea of switching to an e-herms, from a propane system. I've seen the electric brewery setup, while crazy nice, I'm just surprised there is not a software based solution similar to BrewPi. Am I missing something?

As @LBussy said, that side of the Brewery, is usually done with mechanical controls, like the Inkbird P.I.D. and Solid State Relays. I never seen a need to use "advanced" controls that can ramp temperatures up or down over days/weeks, like on the Fermentation side. Your only in the Brewhouse at most, 1 day, where hands-on switching and watching is necessary. There is nothing sweeter, then a running BrewPi (or Fermentrack), on the fermentation side!

 

[duncan.brown]

Yes, I’m BrewPi Remix on the cold side, but hardware PIDs on the hot side. Once my HLT PID learned what it takes to hit temps while driving my HERMS coil, the problem was solved. Even my most complicated step mashes have only four temperatures, usually over 80 mins when my brewery has my undivided attention. I just punch in the new temperature when the timer goes off.

On the cold side, I let BrewPi Remix handle stuff like this. The x-axis is in days. That’s the big difference for me.

 

[day_trippr]

I'm toying with the idea of switching to an e-herms, from a propane system. I've seen the electric brewery setup, while crazy nice, I'm just surprised there is not a software based solution similar to BrewPi. Am I missing something?

There are actually quite a few software-based solutions geared towards e-brewing. Check out the threads in the Automated Brewing forum. Brucontrol may be the best supported currently...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/brucontrol-brewery-control-automation-software.624198/
Cheers!

 

[bloombrews]

OK, not sure if anyone asked yet, but will it be possible to port the data from
Spindelmate (Rapt Pill), into the RPRemix GUI someday? I know there is only so much "free" time, you all have, to do the heavy lifting, and all I do is cut-and-paste the download ....
Thanks @LBussy , and @Thorrak, and @day_trippr (just to name a few here) ! All of your hard work is way more appreciated, then you may know!

 

[LBussy]

The short answer is: Probably not. There's a few reasons:

1. These folks seem to be using their geographical isolation to pretty blatantly violate someone's US Patent. The holders of that patent have been freaking awesome working with @Thorrak and I (and I am sure others) to make sure we could integrate their product. To integrate Rapt feels like a slap in the face to them and I am disinclined to do that.
2. Rapt is a closed system. You have to go to their API to get the data (yes I know people have been hacking their hack - which is ironic.) That means:
   1. They can change it at any time and cause downstream consumers additional work
   2. They could just ... stop. Your Pill becomes a conversation piece and you're SOL
3. There are better ways to integrate new technology into fermentation control than the way John and I have been doing it. Maybe some work is being done in that space .....

 

[Thorrak]

The short answer is: Probably not. There's a few reasons:

1. These folks seem to be using their geographical isolation to pretty blatantly violate someone's US Patent. The holders of that patent have been freaking awesome working with @Thorrak and I (and I am sure others) to make sure we could integrate their product. To integrate Rapt feels like a slap in the face to them and I am disinclined to do that.
2. Rapt is a closed system. You have to go to their API to get the data (yes I know people have been hacking their hack - which is ironic.) That means:
   1. They can change it at any time and cause downstream consumers additional work
   2. They could just ... stop. Your Pill becomes a conversation piece and you're SOL
3. There are better ways to integrate new technology into fermentation control than the way John and I have been doing it. Maybe some work is being done in that space .....

The Tilt guys actually got someone to come write documentation for Fermentrack without asking/telling me. They saw a need and filled it. I love them. <3

For some reason I assumed that the Rapt's bluetooth interface was open. If it's closed, then as a former Beer Bug owner that's a major issue -- I have firsthand experience with what happens when your cloud dries up.

 

[bloombrews]

The short answer is: Probably not. There's a few reasons:

WOW! I am definitely not a person that ever tries to save a buck, and screw someone's hard work. I just did not like my Tilts (2), short battery life, bluetooth only, ability. I guess I should look into the Tilt Pro? Then my Pills and older Tilts, would be just used for book-ends.....
Thanks Lee and John
Ed

 

[LBussy]

The Tilt Pro is freaking FANTASTIC and can be used for temp control. The battery life is incredible. When John finishes documentation, there will be an ESP-based solderless solution which leverages the Tilt Pro.

That said, battery life with my regular Tilts is about 8-12 months. They made some advancements even after that so I would not write them off so fast.

 

[bloombrews]

There has to be a bug in the most recent version of BPR. This is the 4th and last time I am attempting to assign Devices to there respective slots.
Every time, when I "Apply" the second temp probe (clearly showing two different temperatures), after I hit the second Apply, both readings now go to the same reading that I just applied. Misteriously, the other different probe dissapears.
I will wait, and hope someone can download a fresh copy now, and apply your probes, to see if the same thing happens. I tried everything - different probes after "resetting to factory defaults", new sd cards, different controller, different Pi.... same results.

 

[bloombrews]

Will the Legacy version still work? I was going to do an uninstall, and try the older version to see if it works.
Just running out of options to try...
Thanks
Ed

 

[scubahiker]

Thanks @LBussy, @duncan.brown, and @day_trippr! All good information. I love the control BrewPi Remix gives my fermentation, and now with the integrated Tilt readings!

I went down the road of e-herms because of wanting more control over my mash temps. While my mash tun is insulated, I still have temp loss, and seem to always be missing my strike water temp to hit my mash temp. I need to spend some time with beersmith correcting my settings.

 

[LBussy]

There has to be a bug in the most recent version of BPR.

Well, never saying never, but there's no "recent" version:

The only change since then that you are using is the change to work around the git change.

So I'm not quite sure what the issue is. All I can suggest is maybe install brand X and see if it lets you save sensors. If it does, you've have a working system and I know I have something broken somewhere.

 

[day_trippr]

^tempting^, but not today

fwiw, I just fired up a BPR instance and had no problem assigning devices - 3 sensors, heat & cool relays, fan, door, even the light.
I could be wrong but I would be surprised if the legacy version of BrewPi will work unless one has a legacy OS running...

 

[LBussy]

I would be surprised if the legacy version of BrewPi will work unless one has a legacy OS running

You are correct. There's NFW that you could install Legacy on any Raspbian images from the last three years (probably more.)

 

[bloombrews]

^tempting^, but not today

fwiw, I just fired up a BPR instance and had no problem assigning devices - 3 sensors, heat & cool relays, fan, door, even the light.
I could be wrong but I would be surprised if the legacy version of BrewPi will work unless one has a legacy OS running...

I was trying to find out how to check, with a multimeter and a magnet (if one of the wires has magnetism), to check if my probes are not in spec. Only found out how to identify what type of sensor your have.... not how to test them, if Bloombrews toasted them !
I copied the SD card that is now almost done running my Baltic Porter (big beer lagers, take lots of time..), and stuck the card into another RPi, with a different IP address assigned, and a different username. This, in itself, could be my home-grow-mess, but this all ran successfully for years in the past on the Legacy version. Not this card, nor "recent" version.
I can only think of 1 last "option" - get some new DS18B20 probes, and test. This Pi is on my work bench, with only the sensors directly connected to the controller. There are no long distance communication wires running, like the Porter is now, so I tried to eliminate every hack, I could !
Thanks again, @day_trippr , and @LBussy , for putting up with "Ol HVAC/Plumber", like me, that have almost zero modern knowledge, of this Programming Language; But I do brew great beers, that I TOTALLY, give Credit, to You All, for the Medals that came from Automated Fermentation.

 

[bloombrews]

All I can suggest is maybe install brand X and see if it lets you save sensors.

Will do, Lee. I just hate "abandoning" A Good Dog!

 

[LBussy]

I was trying to find out how to check, with a multimeter and a magnet (if one of the wires has magnetism), to check if my probes are not in spec. Only found out how to identify what type of sensor your have.... not how to test them, if Bloombrews toasted them !

Do you have an LCD attached? If so, these instructions will show you how to test your Uno + sensors:

https://github.com/brewpi-remix/uno-test

 

[day_trippr]

Hah! That's pretty cool - and I don't recall it being mentioned prior. You been hiding this?

Cheers!

 

[LBussy]

Hah! That's pretty cool - and I don't recall it being mentioned prior. You been hiding this?

Wasn't a secret - I guess I never told anyone because I always planned for better. Like, if there's no LCD use blink codes to say if things were kosher or not.

 

[bloombrews]

Wasn't a secret - I guess I never told anyone because I always planned for better. Like, if there's no LCD use blink codes to say if things were kosher or not.

I do not know what was causing my Temp Probes to not apply properly with the 2 different temperatures and different 1-wire addresses showing up on a Refresh. So, I rewired a new never used controller, with new temp probes, new 4.7K resister, new wires, kept the Rpi and SDRemix card..... and I got a second good running RPRemix! Now I can control 2 seperate Fermenters in either mult-chamber or single chamber mode. I was affraid to touch my only good 1-Chamber RPR running the past 2 months.....
thanks @LBussy , @day_trippr , and @Thorrak , for your help
I will try Lee's LCD Checker soon.... Had to get this done priority-one
@day_trippr - Now my work bench Pi's really look like they got PUKED uP! LOL...

 

[day_trippr]

I couldn't be happier
Now that you have a working kit, when you get a chance you need to figure out what was broken and let us know. Swap in a sensor, if that doesn't break it, put the original back and swap another sensor, etc...

Cheers!

 

[bloombrews]

I couldn't be happier
Now that you have a working kit, when you get a chance you need to figure out what was broken and let us know. Swap in a sensor, if that doesn't break it, put the original back and swap another sensor, etc...

Cheers!

I am on it @day_trippr . I did ohm out the resister that should read 4.59-4.6K, new, but the one I pulled out was 4.45. This is not too far out of spec.

Can anyone tell me the best way to quickly mount the micro-tipped factory DS18B20 soldered wires ? I shaved a few of them and re-soldered a longer lead tip on them to help make it easier to insert into a terminal block. Is a breadboard a better option? It would take up too much room in a work box, when I finally clean up this mess! WAGO lever nuts are great, but the super short factory tips (DS18B20), are too short to get a quick reliable connection in the lever-nuts. The copper in the wires is soooo fine, that I found it is "best" to burn the plastic/rubber off the end and then use your finger nails to clean off the burnt poison, then resolder the tip. All my hvac line stripper tools are not suitable for this fine gauge wire.

A second problem I am having with the RPR and Fermentrack, is the Pi loosing contact with the running script (2-4 times/daily). My wifi is 4/5 bars, and I do have an extender that I can extend signal of my main router with. I see Raspbian OS often searching for a better connection, jumping onto the Extender, and sometimes picking the main router that is pretty far away with usually a decent 4/5 signal in my brewery. Thanks to the Beer Gods, that the "Arduino" UNO keeps the script and relays running without any problems, ever.
I can do a - sudo systemctl restart brewpi and then a refresh. But sometimes this will not bring the script and GUI back, so I have to do a reboot.
I did assign the one working Pi a static, non-changing IP address from my rounter home. Not totally understanding what part of this program keeps the script, GUI, running on the Pi, I am not sure what to do about this. Having usually 2 (now 3) Pi's running at the same time, could well be the problem. They all have a different IP address, but I suspect that when Raspian desktop keeps occasionally searching for a stronger connection, this could be the problem. Also, not sure how important each running Pi, must have a unique "name", other then the IP address? I try to make sure each time that I burn a new SD card, I give it a different login name.
Next up - 1) Find what may have been the cause of the mis-applied sinsors, 2) Get my controls in a nice neat Job box, 3) Take a stab at getting my SG toys to work from inside the unitanks (older Tilts with bluetooth, and the Rapt Pill with both wifi and bluetooth), 4) Take a stab at @LBussy LCD build for bench testing, and his Brewbubbles, 5) Make enough Lagers, so I do not have to buy $42 cases of beer for camping, fishing, bicycling, season soon!

 

[day_trippr]

I was having trouble understanding what you meant about "the RPi loosing contact with the running script". I would have termed that as the dialogue being conducted between the RPi and the UNO - over your USB cable. But it appears you are referring to the communication between a web browser on some device you're using and an RPi running BrewPi. If that's the case maybe it's time to use CAT cabling?

You can get away with a decent band of pull-up resistor values on OneWire. I generally recommend 4.7K on a 5V bus ala Arduino UNO, and 3.3K on a 3.3V bus ala RPi and ESP32, but you can comfortably go down to 2K for either case without encountering problems and in fact may fix capacitance related flakiness on large wired networks (like say coupling 5 ds18b20 sensors each with 3 meter leads).

As for handling the wires, my sensors come with a heavily jacketed cable with I believe 22 gauge stranded leads.

I solder these to 3-pin latching "Tiny XLR" connectors, like this dusty bunch I'm using on one of my test mules..

This is what the insides looks like

They are a little tricky to solder up but with a fine iron tip and equally fine solder they're not too bad. And the strain relief will go a long way to preserving function if the little guys get handled often...

Cheers!

 

[balrog]

I solder these to 3-pin latching "Tiny XLR" connectors,

Definitely a gold standard.
I've used a telephone extension in the past - any forseen issues with using non-coaxial like that? And good luck trying to find telephone extension cords any more!

 

[bloombrews]

I solder these to 3-pin latching "Tiny XLR" connectors, like this dusty bunch I'm using on one of my test mules..

NICE! I will post a picture this afternoon, what I use for my quick-disconnect, on my custom made (no puke), Controller for my SsRIMS. Quickly, it uses CESS 3.5mm Stereo Balanced Female Jack to AV Screw Video Balun Terminal (LW)
and AUX Cord for Car, AILKIN 2 Pack 3.5mm Auxiliary Audio Cable, Braided Stereo AUX Chords
The 3.5MM Plug is a Stereo Audio, Tip-Ring-Sleeve, with Tip=left=DATA=yellow, Ring=right=POWER VCC=red, Sleeve=GROUND=black
The Jack is a screw-down x female jack
The DS18B20 temp probes are ran through your job box, and secured down inside the box to prevent any unwanted wire movement.
Everything "outside" the boxes, are quick disconnect 3.5mm audio jack and plugs
@day_trippr Here is what my 220vac PID RIMS, 110 switched Pump, 110 PID heating element , with power meter/amps/volts current LCD, looks like -
NOTE! Check your Tip, Ring, and Sleve,with a multi-meter, to be certain that the DATA and POWER are not reversed, so you don't fry the probe, I did not open my job box to verify this picture as to its accuracy!

 

[day_trippr]

any forseen issues with using non-coaxial like that?

None known so far I've been using these all over the house including inside my keezer and three fridges (that's 4 BrewPi instances with 3 probes each) and another 5 for my temperature logging program for the keezer, with all the connectors inside and exposed to cold and humidity and occasionally handling (especially the fridges/ferm chambers). And I have another 20 sensors for my collection of test platforms in my office....

...all of them running. I've never had a failure of a working sensor or connector...

Cheers!

 

[balrog]

None known so far I've been using these all over the house including inside my keezer and three fridges (that's 4 BrewPi instances with 3 probes each) and another 5 for my temperature logging program for the keezer, with all the connectors inside and exposed to cold and humidity and occasionally handling (especially the fridges/ferm chambers). And I have another 20 sensors for my collection of test platforms in my office....

View attachment 814496

...all of them running. I've never had a failure of a working sensor or connector...

Cheers!

Kewel, kewel. Altho I figured you for a mechanical pencil guy, not a pencil sharpening type.

 

[day_trippr]

My dad loved mech pencils and so do I. He was an EE, and for me as an EE major and then in practice well before computers were found outside the datacenter they were pretty much mandatory for any kind of drawing work. I have them stashed all over the house - kitchen, office, shop, brew space - and in my truck and cars. A lot easier than carrying a sharpener everywhere

Cheers!

 

[bloombrews]

None known so far

ORGANIZED Chaos ! You got me beat!
You did say to possibly change the Resister, if you use what you are here - the 8 sensors on the left with 3meter leads