Brewpastor's Coldroom Build

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NM is very dry and so this probably is nothing to get worked up about.

I have installed the floor, run the wiring, and started installing the insulation. I also hung the door. I need to figure out how I want to control the AC unit. I know lots of people use the Ranco units to control, but I am interested in the CoolBot unit> Store It Cold - Home of the CoolBot!

Anybody have any experience or knowledge with these units?
 
The cool thing about the cool bot is the frost sensor. It seems to be the key benefit over a regular controller but I would probably try a Ranco before paying the $230 premium for the coolbot.
 
I only posted it because it's probably about 5 minutes from brewpastor.... If only I had the space! Maybe BP can use the door and cooler?
 
Well, I went and checked out the walk-in. It is pretty rough and shorter then advertised. It is cool none-the-less. It is a Perlick cooler and would be pretty cool to have. My wife (she is great) told me to get it if I wanted. But I think what I am doing will be better, especially now that I know how much I can spend on the project!

Thus far I have spent:

wood for framing - free
2 sheets of plywood for floor - $19 each
insulation - $90
solid core door - $10 (Habitat Restore)
door hardware - free
8000 BTU AC unit - $199
wiring, switches, outlets and boxes - $32

I had the nails, screws and tools already.

I still need a temperature controller, drywall (Although my father-in-law has two 4x12 sheets for me), linoleum for the floor, lights and interior wall covering.
 
Yeah its always nice to buy something premade, but it's even better to make exactly what you want.
Looks like you are on track for your budget! Think I spent $120 on my reach-in, if I'd had the space for the walk-in I think $600 would have been a good target.
Do you think you'll go for the coolbot? I don't know if there's enough humidity here to justify the need for the "anti-coil freeze up" features.
 
I am learning towards the coolbot. The think I like is how it works. I doesn't mess with the AC unit, but rather uses a small heating element attached to the AC thermostat to "fool" the AC unit into keeping running.

You are right about the frost thing. I don't think we would need one around here.

Actually, That would be really easy to copy, Maybe a fish tank heater or something like that, controlled by a Ranco. You put the heater in direct contact with the AC's element and have the Ranco turn the heater on and off based on the temperature you want the Room to be.

OK - I need some ideas of what I could use as a heating element to be controlled by a Ranco. If it is small and running on 110 it would be best.
 
It would be fairly easy to replicate. I bet they're just using a robust thermistor in "reverse". A thermistor has a somewhat linear temperature response to its voltage input. Honestly though there isn't much of a difference between tricking the built in thermostat and just replacing the thermostat with a ranco/etc. I've read up on the coolbot and really the only novel thing about it is the anti-freeze features.
 
Brewpastor said:
OK - I need some ideas of what I could use as a heating element to be controlled by a Ranco. If it is small and running on 110 it would be best.
Click to expand...

You could run over to your neighborhood pet store and pick up the smallest reptile heating pad they have. Should be about 10-15 bucks and is designed to work in the air (aquarium heaters are designed to work in water and will burn out quickly when exposed)

-C
 
What I like about the heater idea and not messing with the AC's wiring is it does not effect the warranty of the AC unit. It has a 5 year warranty and from what I hear I will be luck to get it to last that long.

I like the reptile heater idea.
 
Brewpastor said:
I am learning towards the coolbot. The think I like is how it works. I doesn't mess with the AC unit, but rather uses a small heating element attached to the AC thermostat to "fool" the AC unit into keeping running.

You are right about the frost thing. I don't think we would need one around here.

Actually, That would be really easy to copy, Maybe a fish tank heater or something like that, controlled by a Ranco. You put the heater in direct contact with the AC's element and have the Ranco turn the heater on and off based on the temperature you want the Room to be.

OK - I need some ideas of what I could use as a heating element to be controlled by a Ranco. If it is small and running on 110 it would be best.
Click to expand...

I would probably use a small peltier or the above mentioned reptile heater but put it in some sort of insulated box so you aren't fighting too hard against the heat generated, the reptile heaters put out a little more heat than I'd personally like. You might also consider only running the heater when you are running the A/C, it might take a few minutes to come up to temp and kick the A/C on but it won't be constantly heating your room.

Heat tape like they use to keep pipes from freezing might also work. I think there is a way to shorten a run too. Maybe someone with more experience can chime in on that.
 
Ahhh yes "warranties"... I'm bad at holding on to those...
On my ac unit the thermostat consisted of 2 blade connectors, not too sure if disconnecting those is a warranty voiding action.

Here's a goofy site about building small DC heaters:
Heaters

A quick trip to a thrift store would get you 99% the way there.
 
leboeuf said:
Ahhh yes "warranties"... I'm bad at holding on to those...
On my ac unit the thermostat consisted of 2 blade connectors, not too sure if disconnecting those is a warranty voiding action.
Click to expand...

that would sure make it REALLY easy.

leboeuf said:
Here's a goofy site about building small DC heaters:
Heaters
Click to expand...

This site looks like the best solution. You can make as much heat as you need and have it controlled by the ranco just by wiring in a DC wall wart.
 
dantodd said:
You might also consider only running the heater when you are running the A/C, it might take a few minutes to come up to temp and kick the A/C on but it won't be constantly heating your room.
Click to expand...

That is what the Ranco does. It turns the heater on and off based on the set points you select. When the heater is turned off the heater stops and so the AC's sensor reads "cold" and turns off. When the Ranco's sensor reads warm (based on the set points you select) it turns the heater on, which in turn causes the AC's sensor to read "warm" and turn on. Pretty simply and slick set-up.
 
A small bulb would probably work, I would probably be worried about it making too much heat...

I would use a small length of heating pad wire wrapped around the probe. Then just insulate the probe/heating wire with some foam tape/heatshrink tubing/etc.
 
Man, this has me really thinking twice (or three times) about adding a Cold room to my 'back yard brew pub'. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Thanks for posting.
 
Brewpastor said:
That is what the Ranco does. It turns the heater on and off based on the set points you select. When the heater is turned off the heater stops and so the AC's sensor reads "cold" and turns off. When the Ranco's sensor reads warm (based on the set points you select) it turns the heater on, which in turn causes the AC's sensor to read "warm" and turn on. Pretty simply and slick set-up.
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstood me. I meant to only turn on the heater (or light bulb) that is next to the A/C sensor when you are turning on the A/C. Is that a little more clear? I doubt you'd need two stage controller as you shouldn't need to be doing any room heating in your basement.
 
We are talking about the same thing I believe, The AC unit only runs when the heater is on and the heater on runs when the room needs to be cooled. I will find the video from coolbot and see if that covers your thought or if I am just out of the loop so to speak,
 
Here is the coolbot installation video. It hekps describe how the coolbot actually controls the AC unit.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUZ1azvgpfE]YouTube - CoolBot Installation Video from Store It Cold[/ame]
 
Over thinking.... what's a reptile heater and a light bulb? Resistive devices.

Let's see, 120v / 2000ohms, = .06 amps and 7.2 watts. Get a 2kohm, 10 watt resistor and wire that in. Put it next to the bulb and wrap it with tape. Actually it looks like 2.2k is more common which is fine. Pay about 50 cents.
 
looks awesome BP, i've always been awed by your setup and can't wait to see this one complete... i've showed my wife some pictures of your stuff before and said, 'you think i got a crazy setup...'

great looking work.
 
Brewpastor said:
We are talking about the same thing I believe, The AC unit only runs when the heater is on and the heater on runs when the room needs to be cooled. I will find the video from coolbot and see if that covers your thought or if I am just out of the loop so to speak,
Click to expand...

I was assuming you'd also put the A/C unit on the RANCO so you wouldn't have to worry about cool down time on the resister/heater/nichrome wire or whatever you choose to use.
 
Where do you get such a beast? You are speaking hebrew to a gentile here! I'll send you a PM.
Click to expand...
Basically all resistors produce heat when they are passing current while under a voltage. As in P(watts)=I(amps)^2*R(ohms), or from the voltage point of view P(watts)=V(volts)^2/R(ohms)

So basically if you have a 12v supply and say a 500ohm resistor, the resistor will develop 0.288 watts of heat. So if you were to buy a 500ohm 1/2watt rated resistor and hook it up to a 12v supply that can provide 0.024 amps (derived using ohms law v=IR) you would have your little heater.

Walker supply has a decent selection of stuff locally. Heck I may have some 1/2watt stuff laying around if you can't find anything.
http://www.walkerradio.com/
Careful while you're in there though, my head always starts swimming with all the cool switches/transformers/they even had tube sockets the last time I was in there....
 
I guess you'd have to experiment with different wattages to see if it:

1. Provides enough heat.
2. Heats up fast enough to make the AC react when necessary.
3. Cools down fast enough so you don't overshoot.

Any electronics supply would have resistors. If you use the ranco to switch the hot side of a 120v supply, the resistor would attach to that switched hot and the unswitched neutral. You'd want to be really careful that you don't leave any part of the wire or resistor leads exposed. In that regard perhaps a 12vdc supply would be safer but the resistor values would change.

12v / 100 ohm resistor = .120 amps and 1.55 watts. You'd need a wallwart that was capable of at least 200ma. I'm not 100% sure if 1.5 watts will be enough heat fast enough. It won't hurt to try though. If you need more heat, a 50 ohm, 10watt resistor 50 ohm 10W 5% Wirewound Resistor (2-Pack) - RadioShack.com would give you 2.8 watts of heat and you'd need a 12v, 300ma (minimum) wallwart for that.

It also wouldn't hurt to put a 500ma fuse inline with one of the wires from the power supply in case of a short circuit situation.


If the shutdown lags too long from residual heat on the resistor, you could try not insulating the bundle at all and just wrapping it with tape so that the coldroom air affect the bulb faster when the heat is off.
 
I'm trying to remember what wattage could be felt by touch. I don't think you need something over a watt. Also once you get above 2watt rated resistors, most are sand cast and will hold residual heat longer (I think it's 2watt might be 5).

I would definitely NOT use 120v ac for this. There's too much potential energy involved. A wall ac/low voltage dc adapter will isolate you from most of the harmful situations you could get into.

Resistors are reallllllly cheap so it may be worth while to just experiment as long as you're within the current specification of you power supply.
 
So this could be a good use of all those AC adapters I have laying around from old cellphones, and cd players? Basically I would find out the specifications of my power supply, buy a 1 - 1.5 watt resistor, wire it into the AC adapter and I would be good? I am assuming the resistor would be wired with white wire one end, black on the other?
 
If you want the temp sensor on the AC unit to be kept warm, can't you just run it out the back of the unit so it's outside of the cold chamber? Is it a resistive-type temp sensor? If so you could just measure the resistance at a warm temperature and replace the temp sensor with a resistor.

Then you could just run the AC unit through the temp controller as dantodd suggests. Is there any issue with the max current exceeding the rating on the controller? Since the Ranco doesn't have the cycle hysteresis setting, maybe the Johnson Controls version is better suited for this application. Not sure if it's really an issue.
 
freddyb said:
If you want the temp sensor on the AC unit to be kept warm, can't you just run it out the back of the unit so it's outside of the cold chamber? Is it a resistive-type temp sensor? If so you could just measure the resistance at a warm temperature and replace the temp sensor with a resistor.

Then you could just run the AC unit through the temp controller as dantodd suggests. Is there any issue with the max current exceeding the rating on the controller? Since the Ranco doesn't have the cycle hysteresis setting, maybe the Johnson Controls version is better suited for this application. Not sure if it's really an issue.
Click to expand...

Well, I do not know. I guess the thing to do is experiment! I wonder if the temp sensor can simply be removed/unplugged, or do you think it would need to be replaced with a jumper wire or something, which I think is your idea with a resistor. Would I measure the resistance with a voltage meter? The problem with running it outside the cold room is distance. The coolbot solves these issues by leaving everything alone in the AC unit and just manipulates the temp sensor with its little heater to cycle the AC unit. But it seems I shouldn't need to spend $300 to do that.
 

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