Brewmation: An amazing turnkey brewery (not a Brew-Magic vs B3, but with comparisons)

[SankePankey]

None yet. We are all still putting the bits and pieces together. I don't know about technical manual. There is a 6 page manual that's kinda laymans guide. I wouldn't think it's Kevin's responsibility to provide a technical layout of his entire system including electronics. If he did, we would be importing Chinese versions of his rig as we speak.

He provides 6 months warranty and after that it's a repair. All signs point to that he's going to be great to work with in the future. I certainly broached the topic with him of the 'dangers of buying such a proprietary system' but I think Kevin's going to do whatever it takes to support. I still haven't gotten the software modifications I requested, so I probably will be the last to do a post-review, even though I was the first to receive.

 

[RDWHAHB]

I wouldn't think it's Kevin's responsibility to provide a technical layout of his entire system including electronics. If he did, we would be importing Chinese versions of his rig as we speak.

So if you tinker/try to repair your own rig, you have to reverse engineer the damn thing? I thought they looked cool before, but that is kinda BS.

 

[SankePankey]

K. I just inquired to Kevin about this. His response:

{In any event, I will be adding a technical section to the manual for spare
parts / troubleshooting. It's very straight forward for someone w/ a
technical background to trouble shoot.

Also, if there was a "major failure" in the control panel, the design is
such that the control panel and lower control box can be easily removed and
sent in for repair.}

And, either way, Kevin is very helpful to the tinkerer and can advise. I'm slightly modding my rig and he's given me a hand with info. I'm not modding the electronics though.

 

[RDWHAHB]

Well if he has some schematics in the manual that sounds good. The thing is you really need that manual. He may be great with support now, but his side business may fold, life changes happen, etc. Anyway, he may not be there to repair it. Then you are stuck with a kitchen sink. If you have schematics then it is a lot easier to repair it yourself, or be able to find someone to help you.

Wasn't trying to attack him in the prior post (not that you took it that way either). Just figured I should explain a bit more!

 

[SankePankey]

No worries. There will be a schematic.

Just to point it out again - No one should mistake me as a spokesperson for Brewmation. I'm just a customer who types fast.

 

[Desert_Sky]

omgoodness, that much $$$ for a converted kitchen sink electric brewery?

 

[Sawdustguy]

omgoodness, that much $$$ for a converted kitchen sink electric brewery?

I vehemently disagree. I doubt you could build this for any less especially with the peristaltic pumps and adjustable power supplies. While I am not a fan of this brewery, it does have some pretty neat technology like the metering pumps that allow you to pump a precise volume of liquid. I think people sometimes forget how expensive it is to build something here in the US and also forget that the poor guy is trying to sell this to make a profit. If you look closely at the brewery it has much more functionality than the B3 or Sabco neither of which measure volume or can be totally automated. This is the only brewery commercially available to homebrewers that I know of that offers total automation other than adding grains and hops. You can DIY a brewery that is totally automated but it is not a simple task.

 

[Desert_Sky]

I vehemently disagree. I doubt you could build this for any less especially with the peristaltic pumps and adjustable power supplies. While I am not a fan of this brewery, it does have some pretty neat technology like the metering pumps that allow you to pump a precise volume of liquid. I think people sometimes forget how expensive it is to build something here in the US and also forget that the poor guy is trying to sell this to make a profit. If you look closely at the brewery it has much more functionality than the B3 or Sabco neither of which measure volume or can be totally automated. This is the only brewery commercially available to homebrewers that I know of that offers total automation other than adding grains and hops. You can DIY a brewery that is totally automated but it is not a simple task.

Dude, Ive had 3 sculptures.....I have a pretty good idea of what you should get from what you pay for. The price is entirely too much, especially for an uncreative, no style....kitchen sink setup. Sure it makes beer, but so does everything else.

 

[RDWHAHB]

Dude, Ive had 3 sculptures.....I have a pretty good idea of what you should get from what you pay for. The price is entirely too much, especially for an uncreative, no style....kitchen sink setup. Sure it makes beer, but so does everything else.

To each their own. From what I've seen, it is a good product at decent price. Some cool stuff included.

Have your 3 rigs been automated to the same degree? Did you pay yourself for the time you took to research/build/procure parts? Did you include a profit?

I do agree that it lacks any aesthetic style though.

 

[SankePankey]

It's really a rig for those who care more about utilitarian flare than aesthetic. If you can find a kettle that naturally drains at the bottom, etc, like a sink, that would work as good and be prettier, then go for it. And good luck with the programming knowledge. Maybe if you brew in Arizona and find it preferable to brew outdoors- cool, but I can brew indoors in the freeze ass weather in New York for 5 of the 12 months of the year where I otherwise would fight wind and cold. For the most part, I have a level of consistency that mimics a real brewery, not one who has to deal with stupid variables like pilot lights blowing out. (And, I can get the chores done while waiting for the boil alarm to go off..)

Lets just call it the "Honda Element" of brewhouses (hehe, that's what I drive). You're either into it or your not. For what I got, I think it's a fair price. Especially for what I was going to lay down for a propane rig. And other than that they are unmistakably sinks, I think the aesthetics are just fine. There are a couple of things I'm going over with Kevin that I think need altering, but they are not big things (they are mostly aesthetic, actually). I will leave that for the follow-up review.

 

[drmark50]

What is attractive about a keg converted to a kettle? Can you carry a B3 or Sabco system with your wife? Using electric heating elements make for a more efficient and quiet system that doesn't need a heavy duty kettle or old keg. Instead resources are directed towards automation and convenience. As said before on this thread, the system isn't for anyone. But, to my knowledge there is no commercial system with this degree of automation (you have the control to be as hands on as you like). This system has a core "brain" to monitor the whole system. I understand that people love the systems they have or have created. The system Kevin has designed and innovated is what I was looking for, and I could not design a better system and certainly could not build it cheaper. His website does not do it justice. It needs a youtube video to show it in action...

 

[Desert_Sky]

Have your 3 rigs been automated to the same degree? Did you pay yourself for the time you took to research/build/procure parts? Did you include a profit?

I do agree that it lacks any aesthetic style though.

research? Build? Procure parts?

Why pay yourself for the time and research? The build is all of the fun. ANd the internet provides you with any info you may need. Now with that said, on my current rig I just simply told Morebeer which options I wanted and sat back and waited for delivery.

Im not saying the brewing process that rig uses isn't up to par or anything, Im sure its pretty high tech. All Im saying is that for that price you should get yourself some high dollar vessels and engineering, not some Home Depot kitchen sink.

 

[John Beere]

I'm not trying to fuel any flames here.. I know some would rather just buy a rig 'off the shelf' than DIY, but it does seem expensive. Those pumps are cool but can only move ~12 gallons an hour.. That is way to low for how I run my setup.

The rig is a unique idea, but I guess it just isn't my cup of tea.. Much prefer the look of keggles I guess.

Oh, and if anyone is interested, i have about $1,500 in my 2.0 rig, sans programming..

 

[Lonnie Mac]

I have a level of consistency that mimics a real brewery, not one who has to deal with stupid variables like pilot lights blowing out.

Just so I understand this correctly, you have never brewed on any system correct? B3, Magic, or the one you say you have now?

 

[Desert_Sky]

It's really a rig for those who care more about utilitarian flare than aesthetic. If you can find a kettle that naturally drains at the bottom, etc, like a sink, that would work as good and be prettier, then go for it. And good luck with the programming knowledge. Maybe if you brew in Arizona and find it preferable to brew outdoors- cool, but I can brew indoors in the freeze ass weather in New York for 5 of the 12 months of the year where I otherwise would fight wind and cold. For the most part, I have a level of consistency that mimics a real brewery, not one who has to deal with stupid variables like pilot lights blowing out. (And, I can get the chores done while waiting for the boil alarm to go off..)

Lets just call it the "Honda Element" of brewhouses (hehe, that's what I drive). You're either into it or your not. For what I got, I think it's a fair price. Especially for what I was going to lay down for a propane rig. And other than that they are unmistakably sinks, I think the aesthetics are just fine. There are a couple of things I'm going over with Kevin that I think need altering, but they are not big things (they are mostly aesthetic, actually). I will leave that for the follow-up review.

You brew inside? Hows that working out for you? Im assuming you spent quite a bit on a full CIP system so you dont have to deal with any sort of bad weather correct?

You're rig is doesn't do anything the other rigs do beside cost more and use a kitchen sink

 

[wildwest450]

Wow, there's a lot of hating in this thread. If it aint your money who cares? Why bash something you've never used or will never buy?

 

[SankePankey]

Just so I understand this correctly, you have never brewed on any system correct? B3, Magic, or the one you say you have now?

Yes, Lonnie. The force is strong with this one, but he is not a jedi yet. I have been dually lambasted for my lack of first hand knowledge on another thread. I am no stranger to fermentation and distillation equipment, bright tanks and bottling lines having been a cellar rat for a few years, but the brewing process is something I'm new at. I did however spend about 8 months trying to figure out which was the best route to go with ~$4k and thought my experience might be beneficial to (mostly) newbies and people who dig electric rigs. Most of the things I say are just my opinion and I don't mean that they come from years of tinkering with gear (i.e. exactly what I'm hoping to avoid...).

But you can't deny that unless you are brewing in your garage (which I think you do) you are going to have an issue with pilot lights, are you not? (Also and assumption, you can deny )

As I had mentioned before, I actually took your brutus plans to a couple local welders (single tier with a tippy dump mod on the mash tun) and was appalled at the prices I was quoted just for the frame alone. Also, I was unwilling to wait 12 weeks for a B3, cause I would have purchased one if not (until I got into the idea of electric). Sabco never really interested me, not that it's not a great rig. It just seems, well... overpriced.

For those who think that the DIY aspect is the funnest part of the process, I think that's really great. I'm just not in that crowd. Maybe some day when I get the knowledge I need to do all that stuff, but I'd rather concentrate on brewing now. Life is a learning process.

 

[SankePankey]

You brew inside? Hows that working out for you? Im assuming you spent quite a bit on a full CIP system so you dont have to deal with any sort of bad weather correct?

You're rig is doesn't do anything the other rigs do beside cost more and use a kitchen sink

I will be brewing inside. And I do have a full CIP system with integrated keg washer (also CIP). Other than what came on the brewmation, I spent $63.

I wasn't trying to be hating on you, by saying "Arizona" or anything, but just pointing out that it's probably more logical for you to brew outside than me. I still want to brew beer in the winter (and I don't have a garage).

Peace man. You aren't interested in my review or the rig. Totally cool.

 

[Lonnie Mac]

Yes, Lonnie. The force is strong with this one, but he is not a jedi yet. I have been dually lambasted for my lack of first hand knowledge on another thread. I am no a stranger to fermentation and distillation equipment, bright tanks and bottling lines having been a cellar rat for a few years, but the brewing process is something I'm new at. I did however spend about 8 months trying to figure out which was the best route to go with ~$4k and thought my experience might be beneficial to (mostly) newbies and people who dig electric rigs. Most of the things I say are just my opinion and I don't mean that they come from

But you can't deny that unless you are brewing in your garage (which I think you do) you are going to have an issue with pilot lights, are you not? (Also and assumption)

As had mentioned before, I actually took your brutus plans to a couple local welders (single tier with a tippy dump mod on the mash tun) and was appalled at the prices I was quoted just for the frame alone. For those who think that the DIY aspect is the funnest part of the process, I think that's really great. I'm just not in that crowd. Maybe some day when I get the knowledge I need to do all that stuff, but I'd rather concentrate on brewing now. Life is a learning process.

No actually. I have never to this day had a problem with my pilots. So sure, I can deny that. On a real windy day, maybe (and of course) they will blow out, (who cares) but you actually gotta go to an outside phun-brew-in to be one my friend and I go to many brew-outs... You won't be bringing your rig anywhere...

So it seems that a statement or two has presumed that you will push a plastic led button, do a bit of laundry and out pops a brand new AHA Gold medal award winning beer from this end-all-be-all system, that you otherwise could not accomplish. Yea, though I have a few Golds myself, there are PLENTY of fellas out there kicking my arse at comps all day using two plastic brewing buckets.

Just wanted to make sure that you know you will be making consistently bad beers as well as consistently good beers just as we all do on any system. And I want the noobs whom this thread seems to be geared for to know that as well. Personally, I like to see everyone start out with two plastic buckets but thats me...

 

[John Beere]

Personally, I like to see everyone start out with two plastic buckets but thats me...

When I started 'brewing' back in '91, we were using one plastic bucket.. And water from a garden hose.. Heh. My how far this 'hobby' has come..

 

[SankePankey]

No actually. I have never to this day had a problem with my pilots. So sure, I can deny that. On a real windy day, maybe (and of course) they will blow out, (who cares) but you actually gotta go to an outside phun-brew-in to be one my friend and I go to many brew-outs... You won't be bringing your rig anywhere...

So it seems that a statement or two has presumed that you will push a plastic led button, do a bit of laundry and out pops a brand new AHA Gold medal award winning beer from this end-all-be-all system, that you otherwise could not accomplish. Yea, though I have a few Golds myself, there are PLENTY of fellas out there kicking my arse at comps all day using two plastic brewing buckets.

Just wanted to make sure that you know you will be making consistently bad beers as well as consistently good beers just as we all do on any system. And I want the noobs whom this thread seems to be geared for to know that as well. Personally, I like to see everyone start out with two plastic buckets but thats me...

Yeah, it's less portable than a propane rig. That made it on my list of minuses. I did get the GFCI on an extension cord, so I could take it to anyone's garage who has a dryer in it, if you want to count that.

None of my statements have said that the brewmation will brew better beer than a cooler. I tried hard to make that evident in the review and I guess I didn't do a good enough job. My apologies. I am well aware of that fact.

I do think, though, that I have a great many variables of the brewing process that I've paid someone else to work out for me and that to me is a very good value- especially for crazy newbs who want to go ballz to the wall like me- but into the brewing and recipes and not gear tinkering. If brewing is half consistent process/half art, then I think I've got a head start with one quarter of the equation, more so than buckets. I'd rather be fermenting 15 gallons at a time in my climate controlled conical. Maybe it's because I had some real production experience, but I never would have gotten into the 'see if I like brewing first and only spending $120' phase. Just my personality, I guess.

If there's one thing that I'm guilty of, it's enthusiasm.:fro:

 

[SankePankey]

Some of my 'statements' or 'presumptions' are jokes. And let me tell you... I kill myself! Just a little bit more every day.

 

[EarthBound]

When I started 'brewing' back in '91, we were using one plastic bucket.. And water from a garden hose.. Heh. My how far this 'hobby' has come..

You were lucky to have a hose! I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.

 

[halucin8]

OK. Let me just say that I do really like my Brewmation. It does exactly what I want it to do.

I have been brewing for 10 years and started out with a Mr. Beer, moved to extract after one batch, then went all-grain about 6 months later with a cooler system. Bought a used 3-tier that was sort of raggedy and brewed on that for a while. After winning a gold medal in the 2006 National Homebrew Competition, I rewarded myself with a 3-tier tower from MoreBeer and used my existing keggles.

I was tired of propane and the excess heat it generated in the garage. After passing out in the garage from heat exhaustion while brewing one day, I decided something had to change or I would no longer be able to brew in the NC summer heat. I researched and researched and researched and decided that the Brewmation was what I was looking for.

For all you guys with negative opinions about the Brewmation, so be it. It works for ME and that's what is important.

Cheers!



Cheers!

 

[wildwest450]

OK. Let me just say that I do really like my Brewmation. It does exactly what I want it to do.

I have been brewing for 10 years.

And now I am going to quit this forum. Too many empty opinions.

Cheers!

Nice! I like your style.

 

[halucin8]

Ha. Wildwest caught my post before the edit!

I'm gonna hang around for a little while longer.

Cheers!

BTW Sankey, I drive an Element also. Actually my second one.

 

[JonW]

For all you guys with negative opinions about the Brewmation, so be it. It works for ME and that's what is important.
Cheers!

Cheers to you! People need to keep their negative opinions to themselves. This hobby has such a wide variety of equipment and approaches to brewing that nobody should really criticize what works for someone else.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Cheers to you! People need to keep their negative opinions to themselves. This hobby has such a wide variety of equipment and approaches to brewing that nobody should really criticize what works for someone else.

Amen! It's easy to knock something you have not tried or owned. I don't want to sound like a hypocrite so I confess there are some things I will knock and I have not tried only because I feel they are not safe.

 

[noobster101]

I'm just waiting for the owners of brewmation to post pic or videos before I buy one for myself. Yes, it looks like a sink and doesn't look pleasing with the eyes but I'm not gonna have sex with it or something...or maybe i will

 

[SankePankey]

I'm just waiting for the owners of brewmation to post pic or videos before I buy one for myself. Yes, it looks like a sink and doesn't look pleasing with the eyes but I'm not gonna have sex with it or something...or maybe i will

Well if I were going to do that I'd have to go with the 2" tri-clamp option.

It will be a little time for me at least. I should start brewing on it by next weekend. But I'll wait to post till I have several batches. Still amassing all the bits and pieces. I had to wait to get the rig to know what to get as my final orders from folks (parts wise).