Brewmasters warehouse can't ship within Georgia?

[p4ck37p1mp]

I just signed, I encourage others to do so. Ed is a great guy running a growing business, and I encourage him. I understand what is going on and think it is crap, and it is certainly not of Ed's doing. I can tell you I won't spend a dime at the other location until they back off the distributor and take the pressure off Ed. I'm doing my best not to call other other retailer and giving them a piece of my mind, mostly for Ed's benefit. Were it not for that I most certainly would tell them what I think. I put a link to this thread in my signature, hows that for support! ROCK ON ED!

 

[McKBrew]

If we want to support Ed and what he is doing, the simple thing is just to buy more stuff from him so that he makes up for the loss of in-state business. I really don't have much respect for the people on the other side who would put you in a position like this.

Good luck, Ed and thanks for staying in business for the rest of us.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I don't think any one is suggesting you are benefiting.
I can only presume a distributor/supplier set up the agreement. If so they are probably the one breaking the law and disadvantaging the customers and you.

I can understand you are in a difficult position but it doesn't sound right.

I do not think it is right, but I am a very small business with limited resources. That makes it very difficult to fight back against "the man". I am hoping that the petition will cause everyone else to realize that Brewmasters Warehouse will not lay down and just accept this highly questionable agreement.

 

[stevea1210]

I found the petition on your website (buried under a few links). I signed it. If you want more people to sign it (by the response of the posts in this thread, many will sign it), consider starting a thread with a direct link to the petition. I'd bet you will get a lot more signatures that way.

Good luck man.

At the bottom of the first post in the thread is a link directly to the petition. It can also be found on the website on their policies page. a link to that page is also in the first post of the thread.

 

[Orfy]

I'm sure all on here will help if they can. As stated a quiet chat with the right people may confirm the law is on your side.

Any chance you can say who "The man" is?

 

[reim0027]

I just signed, I encourage others to do so. Ed is a great guy running a growing business, and I encourage him. I understand what is going on and think it is crap, and it is certainly not of Ed's doing. I can tell you I won't spend a dime at the other location until they back off the distributor and take the pressure off Ed. I'm doing my best not to call other other retailer and giving them a piece of my mind, mostly for Ed's benefit. Were it not for that I most certainly would tell them what I think. I put a link to this thread in my signature, hows that for support! ROCK ON ED!

+1. I put it in my signature too. I can't begin to tell you how upset this makes me.

stevea - I just reread your post, and I found it. Thanks.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

If we want to support Ed and what he is doing, the simple thing is just to buy more stuff from him so that he makes up for the loss of in-state business. I really don't have much respect for the people on the other side who would put you in a position like this.

Good luck, Ed and thanks for staying in business for the rest of us.

This is just what is needed. The bigger the business gets the quicker this agreement gets ended.

The best case senario is that Brewmasters Warehouse gets so big that I can walk away from this agreement and open the business up to everyone locally, and not have to deal with the other parties involved again.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I'm sure all on here will help if they can. As stated a quiet chat with the right people may confirm the law is on your side.

Any chance you can say who "The man" is?

The original policy had a link to the email address of "the man". It did not last long, as I soon received an email letting me know if I did not take the link down I would be sued. I laughed hard when I read it, but took it down as I simply choose to spend my money giving flat rate shipping and low prices to customers over paying lawyers.

I will not name any parties involved as there are some I would like to have on my side in the future.

 

[ArcaneXor]

What we really need is the information on the companies that are pressuring you into this arrangement. If they break the law and pressure you into curtailing your business to suit their needs, they do not deserve to be protected by keeping silent about it. They need to be confronted and/or reported to the authorities, not asked nicely via petition so play nice and follow the rules.

I will not name any parties involved as there are some I would like to have on my side in the future.

But that makes you complicit in their activities.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

What we really need is the information on the companies that are pressuring you into this arrangement. If they break the law and pressure you into curtailing your business to suit their needs, they do not deserve to be protected by keeping silent about it. They need to be confronted and/or reported to the authorities, not asked nicely via petition so play nice and follow the rules.



But that makes you complicit in their activities.

I am not complicit in their activities. If I named all the parties involved then I would be sued by them all, almost instantly. I do not have the resources to defend multiple lawsuits against me, even if they are frivolous law suits. By naming them I would also damage my reputation within the industry, which could cause conducting business very difficult in the future.

Put yourself in the position of a store owner for a second. Many of the products that all home brew stores sell come from a single supplier. If that supplier thinks I will take steps to hurt their business then they can simply refuse to sell me anything. My inventory would quickly shrink to the point were I would lose sales due to a poor selection of products.

 

[stevea1210]

But that makes you complicit in their activities.

While I agree that if he divulged those names, he may get some support from us, Ed has to think about the business first in this case.

It appears he isn't happy with this situation either, but has to work within the confines of it for at least now. He can't win the battle, at the cost of losing the war.

We do not know who is putting this pressure on him. It may be another LHBS, it could be whom he gets most of his suppies from, it could be someone else entirely. However, it is someone that Ed believes burning a bridge with will potentially cost him his company.

Surviving as a business owner is different than being complicit. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride in order to survive.

As long as BW continues the same level of price and service, I see no way the business won't grow immensly. Hopefully that will be the answer.

 

[LumberjackJohn]

Home Brewing is a small industry and you can not be successful without the support of everyone in the industry.

I do not really feel this is true, based on your own evaluation of the situation. If there was enough business coming towards your store that it caused your competitor to seek out this trust agreement, then obviously you CAN be successful without being buddy-buddy with everyone in the industry. Now if you mean to say you will lose distributors, that makes sense. JMHO, take it for what its worth. I'm not saying anything about the quality of your business, Ed, because I have no experience with it. I truly hope everything works out for you, but if I were in your shoes, I would just have crushed my competition and found new distributors if needed. The great thing about the US is that where there's a need, there's a young entrepeneur waiting to make a few bucks!

 

[LumberjackJohn]

By naming them I would also damage my reputation within the industry, which could cause conducting business very difficult in the future.

To me, Ed, you are hurting your reputation by admitting to be party to such suspicious activity. I understand that you can or will not divulge certain information, but getting on here and stating that fact makes people start to wonder, and form opinions in their own minds about how much you really knew about what you were getting into......

 

[Orfy]

I sympathise with your predicament.
The laws are there for a reason and I would be concerned that allowing a key player in the industry break them can do no good. Unfortunately you have chose to make it public with the information and petition on your website.

I'm sure you'll manage it how you want but I think I'd try and find a little free legal advice to to make sure you are not involved no matter how remotely in something against the law.

 

[dontman]

Just to add a thought on the current turn of this thread.

In the case of predatory or intimidating practices the exploited party can "play along" and not be considered complicit in the crime.

Think about the shop owners who pay "protection" money to thugs who enter their store. They are not breaking the law by paying the extortion.

This does not mean the crime is not occurring though.

 

[nealf]

Added to my signature as well... At least help all of us GA folks out by signing the petition!

 

[ArcaneXor]

I must say that I am surprised and somewhat disillusioned. I didn't realize that the industry that supplies one of the most friendly communities of people (homebrewers and craft beer drinkers) is so corrupt.

I understand your situation, and can tell you that I wouldn't think twice about paying a little more for ingredients and equipment if that allowed you to go with reputable wholesalers/distributers and dump "the man". I have heard nothing but great things about your service, Ed (in fact, I have promoted your current sale on a prominent deal web site), and would love to do business with you. Please keep us posted on any developments, and I promise you I'll make a sizable order as soon as these companies that think they are above the law are cut out of the loop.

P.S. I went ahead and signed the petition.

 

[jspence1]

To me, Ed, you are hurting your reputation by admitting to be party to such suspicious activity. I understand that you can or will not divulge certain information, but getting on here and stating that fact makes people start to wonder, and form opinions in their own minds about how much you really knew about what you were getting into......

I think you are WAY off. I've ordered from BW and will definately order again. This is business and what it comes down to in the end is to you get the product you want for the price you want.

I'm confident that this is a case of him approaching an established retailer and asking for help finding GOOD suppliers....Or a former employer who helped him start up the business. Nobody wants to help put themselves out of business, a condition for this help was to not sell to HIS customers. Totally understandable in my opinion.

While not a perfect solution it was a good argeement, Ed has 47 states he can do business with and the local guy keeps his business going. WIN WIN

My former employer did the same thing 35 years ago under the condition that he not approach any of they companys customers, He was VERY proud of the fact that 35 years later he had built a business and had never broken his word and approached one of his former employers customers.

I hope that ed is able to work this out to the benifit of everyone.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I would like everyone to understand that I had simple choices in this agreement. I certainly could of said "This is something that I do not want to be a part of." If I had done that then there would be no Brewmasters Warehouse right now for everyone to shop with. I instead chose to enter into the agreement, because it was more important to me to keep my business going, especially since I had only been open for a couple of weeks. I risked everything I have on Brewmasters Warehouse. I am trying to make it the best possible place to shop. I refused to walk away from my dreams. I have fought the situation to the best of my ability, and will continue to fight it until everything is resolved.

I am trying to be as open as I can be about the situation. I could have very easily made something else up about why I do not sell in Georgia, and that would have been the end of it. Instead I opened myself up to your opinions and critism over my decision, because I felt that HBT deserved to hear as much of the story as I could possible tell. There are additional details that I can not discuss, due to many reasons. Possible litigation is a big reason to keep details to myself. You can ask people that know the story, and they will all tell you I do not want to be a part of this and never did. When faced with losing everything or making concessions to service customers I chose to make concessions.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I must say that I am surprised and somewhat disillusioned. I didn't realize that the industry that supplies one of the most friendly communities of people (homebrewers and craft beer drinkers) is so corrupt.

I understand your situation, and can tell you that I wouldn't think twice about paying a little more for ingredients and equipment if that allowed you to go with reputable wholesalers/distributers and dump "the man". I have heard nothing but great things about your service, Ed (in fact, I have promoted your current sale on a prominent deal web site), and would love to do business with you. Please keep us posted on any developments, and I promise you I'll make a sizable order as soon as these companies that think they are above the law are cut out of the loop.

P.S. I went ahead and signed the petition.

I think I was much more surprised when I found out. I am glad that you are willing to support me. I have done the research and I know what type of impact walking away from this situation would have. Now that we have grown larger it makes it a little easier. If everyone continues to support BMW then I will walk away, very soon.

 

[dontman]

Wait a minute. It is not illegal or even unethical for a distributor to protect their customers and to allow their customers to have protected territories.

If I'm paying the barriers to entry, physical presence, leases, storefront, signage, wages, etc. that a distributor required prior to signing me up, I would be very active in making sure the distributor stuck to their distributor agreement in signing up new customers in my area. Especially cyber presences with little to no fixed costs.

With limited information available to me I don't know if this is the situation or not.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

Wait a minute. It is not illegal or even unethical for a distributor to protect their customers and to allow their customers to have protected territories.

If I'm paying the barriers to entry, physical presence, leases, storefront, signage, wages, etc. that a distributor required prior to signing me up, I would be very active in making sure the distributor stuck to their distributor agreement in signing up new customers in my area. Especially cyber presences with little to no fixed costs.

With limited information available to me I don't know if this is the situation or not.

You are absolutely correct about protected territory.

Edit: Which is why I beleive that legal action would not allow me to correct the situation as easily as it has been suggested. Unfair yes, but illegal maybe, maybe not.

 

[Skins_Brew]

I think I figured it out. Ed's father-in-law owns a chain of HBSs. He doesnt want to get the SWMBO mad at him.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I think I figured it out. Ed's father-in-law owns a chain of HBSs. He doesnt want to get the SWMBO mad at him.

I think she is mad at me since I am posting on the forums instead of the Honey Do List.

 

[Chello]

I think she is mad at me since I am posting on the forums instead of the Honey Do List.

As far as i see it, i think i did a pretty good job for valentines day. I should have a solid 2 days to sit on my ass if i want.

You should take the same amount of time as well.

 

[Skins_Brew]

I think she is mad at me since I am posting on the forums instead of the Honey Do List.

Dammit I hate the f'ing honey do list. It never ends and there is always something looming.

 

[dontman]

You are absolutely correct about protected territory.

Edit: Which is why I beleive that legal action would not allow me to correct the situation as easily as it has been suggested. Unfair yes, but illegal maybe, maybe not.

Yes,

I actually deleted my post declaring such actions as illegal. I think I understand a little about the situation now without knowing the specifics.

I guess my thinking now is, if the distributor gave you a special pass when starting up your company and disregarded one of their own rules then maybe you should be satisfied with a 47 state territory.

In saying this I am thinking of this excerpt from a distributor's agreement I have sitting on my desk waoting for signature:

" Criteria:
We do not sell to clubs, individuals, home operated, or internet/mail order-only businesses. We are interested in businesses that can properly represent our products to sell in a retail location.


On-premise accounts need to provide their winery or brewery license, if applicable, or any other licensing that applies to their business.


Retail stores and on-premises must provide a copy of their business license and the address or general area of their proposed location. It must be commercially zoned and a retail storefront. Retailers meeting our qualifications are subject to store location approval for both the quality of the location and the proximity to like businesses.


Retailers are subject to a $2000.00 first order minimum that must be prepaid. Subsequent orders have no minimum order amount and are entitled to 30-day terms based on the credit application.


Wineries and breweries need to provide their winery or brewery license. Wineries and breweries are not subject to a first order minimum, but the first order must be prepaid. Subsequent orders are entitled to 30-day terms based on the credit application.


Manufacturers interested in specific items for production purposes unrelated to beer and winemaking retail may set up an account for those items. Manufacturers are not subject to a first order minimum, but the first order must be prepaid. Subsequent orders are entitled to 30-day terms based on the credit application. Manufacturers are required to produce a copy of their business license.


As a courtesy to our full service retailers, we will drop ship on special request and charge a handling fee. We are not an order fulfillment center for mail order companies.

When I read the first codicil of this agreement I chose to put off opening my business for a year or so until I had a brick and mortar location rather than seeking a work-around for it.

That said, I have never heard of an entire state being the protected territory. I am counting on the territory being less than 5 miles.

 

[mmb]

When I read the first codicil of this agreement I chose to put off opening my business for a year or so until I had a brick and mortar location rather than seeking a work-around for it.

That said, I have never heard of an entire state being the protected territory. I am counting on the territory being less than 5 miles.

I'm versed in this, from the distributor/manufacturers side. We give 100 miles for a dealer in the marine/recreation industry.

Protected territories suck, period. It allows lazy dealers to be the only stop for our product based only on the fact that they've always dealt the product.

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

My situation is not a work around, as I have all of the qualifications mentioned in the agreement, but my current location has caused many concerns about too much competition in too small of an area. I do not agree with this, but that is the way it is. I am actively seeking another location that puts me in a position to avoid these concerns.

I wish I had remembered about protective territory earlier in this thread. It would have made things a lot clearer. This topic about not selling in Georgia gets my blood boiling.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I am actively seeking another location that puts me in a position to avoid these concerns.

Vermont could always use another good LHBS!! Just saying, if you dont mind the cold....

Best of luck with this.