Brewing with Brett? Saison?

[enricocoron]

So I am trying my first Saison on a 10 gallon system, and figured while at it why not split the batch and finish one half off with Brettanomyces Bruxellensis. I've never used it but have heard it will chew right through starch and down to 1 or below for the FG.

Grain bill- 12 gallons - 90 minute boil

18 lbs. Belgian Pilsner
2.5 lbs. White Wheat malt
2 lbs. Belgian Munich
1 lb. Aromatic
5 oz. Caramunich
1.5 lbs. Cane Sugar
.5 lbs. Amber Candy sugar

Going for 22-24 IBUS with Tettnanger at 60, and a tiny flavor addition with the same or a Tett/Saaz combo at 3 mins.

I'm pretty sure if I ferment 67-82 over ten days with just the white labs Saison 2 yeast that should get me from target 1.058 or so down to 1.006-7, but for the brett 5 gallon, at what gravity should I add that? LHBS guy said 'it doesn't matter, pitch at the start, it's going to get down to where it wants to anyways' which I assume is totally wrong, I'm looking for a touch of brett in the Saison (maybe 10-20%) of the flavor profile, if I pitch at the start I'm assuming the Brett will go nuts the whole way through, versus at 1.015 or so which what instict tells me to do?

Have any of you had good luck with Brett B in a Saison, if so when did you add it?

Also can you keg the brett version as well? I guess it needs to age a few months in secondary and i'm guessing room/garage temp in spring/summer is fine, but when you keg it can you just put in a fridge for 1-2 months and begin to enjoy?

 

[dcp27]

your LHBS guy was right, you can throw it in whenever. a vial of brett has such few cells (~1/10th sacchro) and is slower than sacchro that it's not going to match its production. if you want less profile, i guess add it later tho to limit its sugar consumption. brett also consumes esters tho, so just limiting its sugar in take won't necessarily lessen its flavor impact

absolutely no problems with kegging the brett half

 

[JWS]

Can't say that I have actually used it but Boulevard Brewing here in KC has a limited edition Saison Brett which is exactly what you are talking about. For your reference it is AWWWWESOME. But sorry can't help on when or how to add it, but it has been done and it is very good.

 

[Sinkman]

The current issue of Zymurgy has a fantastic article about Brett. Chad Yakobson of Crookes Stave in Colorado actually wrote his thesis on Brett fermentation and has a lot of tips to give out, including recipes. One of the recipes he gave was a Saison with a similar grain bill to one I brew. I can't wait to try it out.

I can't recall all of the details at the moment, so I'll have to update later. One thing I do recall was him stating that a Brett starter should run for about a week to get full growth, but if you pull it off, you can do a lot of different all-Brett beers. If you aren't an AHA member or can't get a hold of the magazine, I can post a much better synopsis if you like!

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

That is probably too much aromatic in OP's recipe. Probably also not enough wheat, either.

You can pitch brett up front but it needs several months to age and develop the dryness and flavor from brett. If you toss it in the fridge after a couple of months its not going to taste very different from your clean saison.

Chad was also on the sunday session on TBN last month and gave some of the same information.

 

[enricocoron]

your LHBS guy was right, you can throw it in whenever. a vial of brett has such few cells (~1/10th sacchro) and is slower than sacchro that it's not going to match its production. if you want less profile, i guess add it later tho to limit its sugar consumption. brett also consumes esters tho, so just limiting its sugar in take won't necessarily lessen its flavor impact

absolutely no problems with kegging the brett half

I know it can't outcompete the sach up front, but I would have thought that if I pitch active Brett at the start I'll get more from it than pitching it towards the end. If It can eat esters, simpler sugars, and starches, won't limiting it's intake of the sugars mean less brett budding in the wort and less fermentation with brett byproducts?

I already have the grain so I can't really adjust the aromatic...I could add more wheat though.

I usually had 12 oz. Aromatic to a 12 gallon batch of tripel so I wasn't thinking that going to 16 oz. in a slightly darker beer would negatively impact the flavor, or is more that it's out of style?

 

[coypoo]

I think adding the brett whenever will be fine. Just remember that the less sugar this is left when the brett starts working, the less Brett character you'll get. So I guess I'm saying add it about half way through?

Edit: I'll also say that Brett doesnt need months and months and months to be noticeable. I'll have to disagree with ApacheMaster on that one. I did a brett B in secondary for Bier de Marrs type-deal and I could notice the brett for sure after about 6 weeks. Now, it was better with age (like 4-5 months in the bottle) but that's not to say you wont get anything out of the brett after it's in there for 6 weeks.

 

[dcp27]

I know it can't outcompete the sach up front, but I would have thought that if I pitch active Brett at the start I'll get more from it than pitching it towards the end. If It can eat esters, simpler sugars, and starches, won't limiting it's intake of the sugars mean less brett budding in the wort and less fermentation with brett byproducts?

not necessarily, 100% brett fermentations afterall are way less bretty than as secondary fermentations. i spose adding it later would limit the growth tho so i guess it would limit it that way.

read this for more info on brett flavors: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/understanding-brett-flavors-298943/#post3734990