Brewing with 240V

[HopHead0814]

Greetings! I have a 10 Gallon Anvil Foundry and want to switch to using 240V. I just ran 100 feet of 8/3 Romex to my garage, added a 40 amp breaker to my panel, and installed a 30 amp 14-30 dryer receptacle. My thought was it could potentially be used for an EV down the road. I don’t want to cut the cord on my Foundry and it was before they started shipping them as 240V. I want to brew safely and have seen some videos online on how to create a gfci protected inline power cord, but the components are hard to find and/or don’t match my setup. Any advice on what I would need to make a power cord considering what I have would be greatly appreciated. I’m certainly no electrician and am new to brewing. Thanks!

 

[day_trippr]

I want to brew safely

You have a 30 amp rated receptacle on a 40 amp breaker.

 

[SanPancho]

You have a 30 amp rated receptacle on a 40 amp breaker.

This is no bueno. Your receptacle can smolder and burn before the breaker trips. Breaker should have lower rated amperage than everything downstream it’s connected to for safety.

Also- at 30/40 amps it might be cheaper to put in gfci breaker vs trying to rig up an inline gfci.

 

[HopHead0814]

This is no bueno. Your receptacle can smolder and burn before the breaker trips. Breaker should have lower rated amperage than everything downstream it’s connected to for safety.

Also- at 30/40 amps it might be cheaper to put in gfci breaker vs trying to rig up an inline gfci.

Thank you for the information. I appreciate it. If it were your house, how would you change it? Change the receptacle to 50 amp? Change the breaker to GFCI 30 amp? Rip it out the receptacle and breaker and put something else in? As I said, I’m not an electrician and the last thing I would want to do is put a fire hazard in my home.

 

[HopHead0814]

You have a 30 amp rated receptacle on a 40 amp breaker.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer. I took from your answer that this must be a no-no. I wish you would have told me why though.

 

[Bobby_M]

There's nothing wrong putting a low rated receptacle on a higher rated breaker. The breaker is sized to protect the wire. 8/3 romex can handle 40 amps.

What some are suggesting as less than ideal is using a device with a normal operating amperage of about 14 on a circuit capable of 40amps. The idea is that if that 14 amp appliance malfunctions and draws 30 amps, the breaker won't trip to protect the smaller wires and circuits plugged into that outlet.
The odds of a device like the Foundry having a fault that draws above rated current but isn't a dead short would be rare.
We usually don't worry about that situation anywhere else. We plug a 1.5 amp phone charger into a 15 amp circuit all day.

If you were one to worry about a very rare chance of bad things happening, you could just swap in a 20 amp breaker temporarily and you might as well make it a GFCI type. You can always swap back to a 40 if you do get an EV.

 

[Airborneguy]

Fyi if this is going to be used for an EV at some point, I recommend using a 14-50 outlet. Much faster charging.

 

[staffordj]

A 30amp gfci breaker is the way to go. For the cord here is a good way to make an adapter so you don't have to cut the stock cord.

 

[day_trippr]

There's nothing wrong putting a low rated receptacle on a higher rated breaker. The breaker is sized to protect the wire. 8/3 romex can handle 40 amps.

The breaker protects the entire circuit, and depends on any receptacle to handle the max rated load. Undersizing anything is bad juju and unlikely to meet code anywhere. Either upgrade the outlet or downgrade the breaker.

And plugging a low amp device on a higher amp circuit really has nothing to do with the max load behavior...

Cheers!

 

[Kizmiaz]

I would use the GFCI breaker over an inline. Cheaper and much cleaner looking.

 

[HopHead0814]

Fyi if this is going to be used for an EV at some point, I recommend using a 14-50 outlet. Much faster charging.

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[HopHead0814]

The breaker protects the entire circuit, and depends on any receptacle to handle the max rated load. Undersizing anything is bad juju and unlikely to meet code anywhere. Either upgrade the outlet or downgrade the breaker.

And plugging a low amp device on a higher amp circuit really has nothing to do with the max load behavior...

Cheers!

Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it!

 

[HopHead0814]

There's nothing wrong putting a low rated receptacle on a higher rated breaker. The breaker is sized to protect the wire. 8/3 romex can handle 40 amps.

What some are suggesting as less than ideal is using a device with a normal operating amperage of about 14 on a circuit capable of 40amps. The idea is that if that 14 amp appliance malfunctions and draws 30 amps, the breaker won't trip to protect the smaller wires and circuits plugged into that outlet.
The odds of a device like the Foundry having a fault that draws above rated current but isn't a dead short would be rare.
We usually don't worry about that situation anywhere else. We plug a 1.5 amp phone charger into a 15 amp circuit all day.

If you were one to worry about a very rare chance of bad things happening, you could just swap in a 20 amp breaker temporarily and you might as well make it a GFCI type. You can always swap back to a 40 if you do get an EV.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer. This really helped me understand where some people were coming from.

 

[HopHead0814]

A 30amp gfci breaker is the way to go. For the cord here is a good way to make an adapter so you don't have to cut the stock cord.

So if I swapped in a 20 or 30 amp GFCI breaker, I could use these same items, except I would need a 14-30 plug adapter instead? Is 12/2 good enough?

 

[day_trippr]

If you use copper Romex you need a minimum of 10 gauge for a 30 amp rated circuit...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

Undersizing anything is bad juju and unlikely to meet code anywhere.

This might be a bit of an overstatement. Most homes have 20 amp branch circuits with multiple 15 amp receptacles, and that meets code everywhere. But I don't know why anyone would ever undersize the receptacle on a dedicated single outlet circuit. Wire it for the device you want to use it for.

 

[day_trippr]

Theoretically (maybe even legally?) a device that requires a 20A 120VAC supply would use a NEMA compliant plug for same, such that those 15A sockets would never see a 20A load...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

Theoretically (maybe even legally?) a device that requires a 20A 120VAC supply would use a NEMA compliant plug for same, such that those 15A socket would never see a 20A load...

Yes. Legally. I actually had typed that but deleted it since I didn't really think this was the place to start reciting the NEC. But since you mentioned it, wouldn't a 40 amp device also have to have a NEMA compliant 40 amp plug that would not fit into a 30 amp receptacle?

 

[day_trippr]

I would think that would be the case - right up until laymen are wiring pigtails and outlets

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

right up until laymen are wiring pigtails and outlets

As we used to say back in the day, there's always an idiot-proof-proof idiot somewhere.

 

[HopHead0814]

I would think that would be the case - right up until laymen are wiring pigtails and outlets

Cheers!

For the record, the outlet was installed by a friend who spent 15 years as an electrician before switching to the low voltage side. I posted on here because I know there are great people on here much more knowledgeable than I am on the subject and was only trying to educate myself.

 

[HopHead0814]

Excuse my ignorance, but assuming that I swap out the 40 amp breaker with a 30 amp GFCI, would this work for running my Foundry on 240?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-WORK...nnectors-Adapter-Cord-S1430F520-018/308319956

 

[doug293cz]

Excuse my ignorance, but assuming that I swap out the 40 amp breaker with a 30 amp GFCI, would this work for running my Foundry on 240?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-WORK...nnectors-Adapter-Cord-S1430F520-018/308319956

No. This adapter gives you 4X 15/20A @ 120V from a 30A @ 240V outlet. It won't let you run your AOI at 240V.

Brew on

 

[BAF]

There's nothing wrong putting a low rated receptacle on a higher rated breaker. The breaker is sized to protect the wire. 8/3 romex can handle 40 amps.

Actually, there is. By code, single-receptacle circuits must have the receptacle sized to the capacity of the circuit they are on. 30 amp outlet means you must have a 30 amp breaker (and appropriate wiring). Nothing wrong with 8/3 romex here since it's over the rating, but you can't use a single 30 amp outlet on a 40 amp circuit.

This might be a bit of an overstatement. Most homes have 20 amp branch circuits with multiple 15 amp receptacles, and that meets code everywhere. But I don't know why anyone would ever undersize the receptacle on a dedicated single outlet circuit. Wire it for the device you want to use it for.

That meets code because it's a multi-receptacle branch circuit, and those 15 amp receptacles are rated for 20 amp pass-through.

Bottom line is that undersizing the receptacle on a single outlet circuit violates code.

 

[HopHead0814]

No. This adapter gives you 4X 15/20A @ 120V from a 30A @ 240V outlet. It won't let you run your AOI at 240V.

Brew on

Thank you. So ultimately I'll have to make an adapter? Or as some have implied, have a licensed electrician make an adapter for me?

 

[doug293cz]

Thank you. So ultimately I'll have to make an adapter? Or as some have implied, have a licensed electrician make an adapter for me?

The straight forward adapter, a pigtail with a 14-30 plug on one end and a 5-15, or 5-20 receptacle (outlet) on the other end, would be a potentially dangerous piece of gear. It would allow you to plug 120V rated appliances into a 240V branch circuit, which will lead to electrical overload, probable appliance failure, and maybe a fire. I suspect such an adapter cord would be a code violation.

A better option would be to replace the plug on the Anvil cord with the proper 240V plug (a NEMA 14-30 in your case), and make a pigtail with a 5-15 or 5-20 plug on one end and a 14-30 receptacle on the other end. This would give you the option to revert back to 120V operation with your Anvil. This adapter cord doesn't have the danger potential of the one in the previous paragraph, as it only allows plugging a 240V appliance into a 120V outlet. The appliance won't work properly (unless it's dual voltage capable), but it's unlikely to damage the appliance, and you won't have an electrical overload potential.

Brew on

 

[HopHead0814]

The straight forward adapter, a pigtail with a 14-30 plug on one end and a 5-15, or 5-20 receptacle (outlet) on the other end, would be a potentially dangerous piece of gear. It would allow you to plug 120V rated appliances into a 240V branch circuit, which will lead to electrical overload, probable appliance failure, and maybe a fire. I suspect such an adapter cord would be a code violation.

A better option would be to replace the plug on the Anvil cord with the proper 240V plug (a NEMA 14-30 in your case), and make a pigtail with a 5-15 or 5-20 plug on one end and a 14-30 receptacle on the other end. This would give you the option to revert back to 120V operation with your Anvil. This adapter cord doesn't have the danger potential of the one in the previous paragraph, as it only allows plugging a 240V appliance into a 120V outlet. The appliance won't work properly (unless it's dual voltage capable), but it's unlikely to damage the appliance, and you won't have an electrical overload potential.

Brew on

This makes so much more sense. Thank you for sharing. It'll get me up and running on 240V and if I ever move later down the road (unlikely), I can make the pigtail you suggested to still be able to brew on 120V. I appreciate you.

 

[doug293cz]

A 30amp gfci breaker is the way to go. For the cord here is a good way to make an adapter so you don't have to cut the stock cord.

I would recommend not making the adapter in this video for the reasons I stated in the first paragraph of this post.

Brew on

 

[mac_1103]

That meets code because it's a multi-receptacle branch circuit, and those 15 amp receptacles are rated for 20 amp pass-through.

I knew that.

 

[Bobby_M]

Actually, there is. By code, single-receptacle circuits must have the receptacle sized to the capacity of the circuit they are on. 30 amp outlet means you must have a 30 amp breaker (and appropriate wiring). Nothing wrong with 8/3 romex here since it's over the rating, but you can't use a single 30 amp outlet on a 40 amp circuit.



That meets code because it's a multi-receptacle branch circuit, and those 15 amp receptacles are rated for 20 amp pass-through.

Bottom line is that undersizing the receptacle on a single outlet circuit violates code.

I believe you. I wonder what dangerous situation the OP's arrangement has that would magically disappear if the device was a 30 amp welder.