Brewing water question

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

Ok, I'm new here and I know this has been discussed ad nauseum, and I've done a ton of research. I've have also reached the stage of paralysis by analysis. I am currently fermenting my first brew, a doppelbock. I have my temperature control, sanitization processes, and all my equipment in check. My next step will be to focus on my brewing water. I have not yet sent off a sample, just because I'm too tight to do so. I'm getting ready to brew a dunkelweizen and have questions about my brewing water.

I have three different types of water available to me. I am on a well with very hard water. If I let the softener run out of salt, immediately the shower walls and fixtures in my house turn white. Lathering soap becomes an impossibility. Very, very hard water. This is the water I used for my doppelbock.

Next, I have softened water. This really needs no explanation, and everything I've read says to avoid brewing with it due to high sodium level.

Finally, at my kitchen sink, the softened water is ran through a reverse osmosis system. Pretty simple.

My question is, without testing these water sources to determine their profiles, which should I brew with? I have eliminated the softened water from all the research I have done. Should I brew with the hard well water? I know from the soils around here that it will be really high in calcium. If I brew with the RO water, can I assume that it's baseline is zero minerals and make additions according to the type of beer I want to brew? I've read so many articles in this the past few days that my head is spinning. Please, someone, give this noob some guidance and point me in the right direction.

 

[processhead]

The fact that you already have an RO unit is great. That water can be your base for just about any brewing style with the right mineral additions.

I would suggest you pony-up for an analysis of your hard water.
You may find that a combination of RO water and your hard water is right for some styles, and even straight hard water for others, but you won't know that till you get it tested.

Don't forget to check your RO unit periodically to make sure it is working properly. That could mean an occasional water test for it too.

 

[The_Bishop]

A quick and dirty test for an RO unit is a TDS meter. They're cheap, and the difference between the source water TDS and the permeate water TDS will tell you your rejection rate.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

My question is, without testing these water sources to determine their profiles, which should I brew with? I have eliminated the softened water from all the research I have done. Should I brew with the hard well water? I know from the soils around here that it will be really high in calcium. If I brew with the RO water, can I assume that it's baseline is zero minerals and make additions according to the type of beer I want to brew? I've read so many articles in this the past few days that my head is spinning. Please, someone, give this noob some guidance and point me in the right direction.

Without testing the only one you should attempt to brew with is the RO option (with added mineralization).

On first guess your RO will have about 5% to perhaps as high as 10% of your wells alkalinity, and you can't assume that all mineral readings will be zero, as they assuredly will not be (although for good RO they may well be close enough to zero that it won't matter too much). The odds of your RO being extremely good go up as the mineral and alkalinity analyticals for your well water go down. Your RO unit can only reject so much (and this might be related to how much was spent on it, or on how well it was matched to your well waters analyticals). Alkalinity post your softener will be the same as alkalinity for your well.

https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

 

[foste1cc]

+1 on using your RO. I have very hard well water from a ground well, and sent it to Ward Labs for testing. My alkalinity was through the roof ,(~300ppm).
Because of this I started using my RO system and adding minerals to achieve the water profile I want, since some beers call for different profiles.

I think it's your safest bet since you haven't tested your other water sources

 

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

Thanks for all the advice. I guess I'm going to need to test my water at some point. I should probably test the raw well water and the RO water to see where I stand. In the meantime, I can't find any suggestions anywhere on what water profile to use to brew a dunkelweizen. Does anyone have any advice for me in that area?

 

[ba-brewer]

the water book by Palmer and Kaminski has some rough outlines for different beer styles.
dunkelweizen is in medium ale brown/black
ca=50-75
alkalinity=80-160
sulfate=50-150
chloride=50-150
RA=60-120

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If it was me, and I was brewing all-grain, I would likely add to each 5 gallons of RO water:

2.6 g. CaCl2.2H2O
1.0 g. CaSO4

Or alternately, potentially leading to a bit smother tasting brew:

3.5 g. CaCl2.2H2O

I wouldn't be able to tell you with greater certainty without seeing your recipe, but right off hand I would say you will most likely not need to add any alkalinity (baking soda), as going below a pH of 5.2 during the mash seems rather unlikely. Your RO will likely have some low level of alkalinity to begin with.

https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

 

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

Ok, so I got my hands on a ph meter. I tested my water and it has a ph of 9.47, which I expected due to the high level of calcium in the soils and the hardness of my water. Is there anything to be gleaned from that to tell me if it's worth a hoot to brew with? The water tastes great to me, way better than the community water system that is full of chlorine. I plan to test my water soon, but I also have brews planned in the meantime.

ETA: If it means anything, I boiled some of this water to wash some yeast the other day. A lot of calcium precipitated out. I probably had 1/16" to 1/8" layer of calcium that settled out of a gallon of water.

 

[processhead]

If you have not done it already, get some calibration standard and check it to make sure its calibrated.

 

[65C]

first I recommend you brew with it and see what it tastes like - I was sweating on my first tap water brews (we are 8+ Ph) - was expecting a disaster and frankly there was no real off taste - the porter I did came out fantastic

but I take the Ph down now - I've a bottle of lactic acid, a neurofen syringe and some Ph strips

I need about 7ml to get 15 litres down to 5.2 - I don't use the strips every time now I know what I need to put in

I think I can taste the difference on the light ales I'm doing - but as I say there was nothing really wrong with them in the first place

using RO and adding minerals seems like a lot of cost and effort for homebrew

 

[Gytaryst]

Water chemistry for well water or tap water naturally changes. The changes can be minor to major. Having your water tested will give you a ballpark idea of what your water is like at the time you test it. When you go to brew, maybe it's the same water, maybe it's not.

I would agree with the person who said have it tested and then use a blend of the hard water and the RO. Personally, I would go heavier on the RO.

I had my tap water tested a couple years ago (Ward Labs). It tested to be pretty decent and I just went with those numbers for quite awhile. Eventually it bugged me that I couldn't be certain if the water I was brewing with was still the same as the now old sample I had tested, so I switched to brewing with 100% RO and just adding salts accordingly. Piece of mind more than anything