Brewing Salts for IIPA

[prcbrewer]

Hey Everyone,

So I am going to brew the Pliny the Elder clone this weekend and had a quick question about brewing water. Since this is an expensive brew, I don't want to let water be a problem. I am in Corvallis Oregon and found the water profile. The profile is as follows:

Sulfate: 10 ppm
Chloride: 4.8 ppm
Alkalinity: 40 ppm
Hardness: 28 ppm
Calcium: 6 ppm
Sodium: 7-18 ppm

I am new to messing with brewing water chemistry, but if anyone could help me out calculating the correct amounts of CaCl and gypsum to add to my water for a IIPA that would be awesome! Its really confusing trying to figure this stuff out!

 

[brick_haus]

I have had very good results, especially with the PTE clone. You'll love this if you get it right, but I'm not qualified to give advice on water chemistry. I'm sure the EXPERTS will chime in. Heed their advice and dont stray...

 

[WayFrae]

I am not a water expert but I do make water adjustments to my brewing liquor. I start out with RO water but your water looks pretty close to RO. To my hoppy beers I like to add 16 grams gypsum, 3.5 grams calcium chloride, and 2 grams epsom salt to 10 gallons of RO water.

 

[prcbrewer]

I have had very good results, especially with the PTE clone. You'll love this if you get it right, but I'm not qualified to give advice on water chemistry. I'm sure the EXPERTS will chime in. Heed their advice and dont stray...

The PTE clone is exactly what I am brewing! Can't wait to see how it turns out.

 

[prcbrewer]

I am not a water expert but I do make water adjustments to my brewing liquor. I start out with RO water but your water looks pretty close to RO. To my hoppy beers I like to add 16 grams gypsum, 3.5 grams calcium chloride, and 2 grams epsom salt to 10 gallons of RO water.

Thanks for the amounts on the salts! I think I will try and do a little more digging and try to nail down the profile Im looking for. I guess the water here in OR is pretty great for brewing all around so it should be a good base for salt additions.

 

[JonM]

Looks like awesome water to start with!

The amounts of salts you need to add will depend partially on mash thickness. You should really download something like Bru'n Water or Brewers Friend and plug your numbers in. I've had great results using Bru'n Water's "Pale Ale" profile for hoppy beers. It uses a pretty high amount of sulfate, which accentuates the hoppiness.

 

[Natdavis777]

Thanks for the amounts on the salts! I think I will try and do a little more digging and try to nail down the profile Im looking for. I guess the water here in OR is pretty great for brewing all around so it should be a good base for salt additions.

I wouldnt assume that those amounts of salts will work for your recipe, as they are specific to his recipe for a hoppy beer.

Depending on your grain bill and your water profile chosen (ie Pale Ale profile in Brun Water), you may have to save some of the minerals from the mash addition and add to the boil addition. The reason for this is that **too much** CaCl and gypsum could drive down the mash pH out of the desirable range. Therefore, you would get the best results by using something like Brun Water, plugging in the grain bill, water report, and mineral additions, and seeing where your mash pH lands.

You can then tweak your pH down (given you are still high with mineral additions) with acid malt, or up (maybe if your profile is requesting enough minerals that the mash pH is driven too low) by setting aside a few grams of said minerals (allowing mash pH to rise) and adding them to the boil (to still achieve ___PPM of sulfates, calcium, chloride, etc)

 

[prcbrewer]

Looks like awesome water to start with!

The amounts of salts you need to add will depend partially on mash thickness. You should really download something like Bru'n Water or Brewers Friend and plug your numbers in. I've had great results using Bru'n Water's "Pale Ale" profile for hoppy beers. It uses a pretty high amount of sulfate, which accentuates the hoppiness.

Thanks. I plugged all of the numbers into beer smith but I wasnt quite sure which profile to use. The Burton on Trent profile seems a little overkill. Maybe I will try the Bru'n.

 

[prcbrewer]

I wouldnt assume that those amounts of salts will work for your recipe, as they are specific to his recipe for a hoppy beer.

Depending on your grain bill and your water profile chosen (ie Pale Ale profile in Brun Water), you may have to save some of the minerals from the mash addition and add to the boil addition. The reason for this is that **too much** CaCl and gypsum could drive down the mash pH out of the desirable range. Therefore, you would get the best results by using something like Brun Water, plugging in the grain bill, water report, and mineral additions, and seeing where your mash pH lands.

You can then tweak your pH down (given you are still high with mineral additions) with acid malt, or up (maybe if your profile is requesting enough minerals that the mash pH is driven too low) by setting aside a few grams of said minerals (allowing mash pH to rise) and adding them to the boil (to still achieve ___PPM of sulfates, calcium, chloride, etc)

Gotchya. That makes total sense. I am using 16 # 2-row, 0.5# C-40, .25 # Carastan and 0.75# CaraPils. I am thinking about using about 12 grams of gypsum as the guys at my local HBS said that they have had good results doing this to most of their hoppy beers. You touched on adding salts to the mash and the boil, would it make sense to just add salts to my entire volume of water to be used throughout the brew day?

 

[uncleleon]

You can make a great iipa without ph adjustments. 12 grams seems like a big change?

No simple sugars? A sweet finish is a deal breaker for me on ipas.

 

[prcbrewer]

You can make a great iipa without ph adjustments. 12 grams seems like a big change?

No simple sugars? A sweet finish is a deal breaker for me on ipas.

After looking around, I think that I am just going to forget salt additions. Maybe a gram or two and thats it.

 

[btbnl]

Even without plugging numbers into any calculator, your yeast will thank you for more calcium and sulphates are good for bringing out hop flavors, so some gypsum (at around 1g/G) seems like an easy way to kill two birds with one stone.

The Pliny malt bill is also pretty light so you're not going to get much help with your pH from the grain, but adding acid to your water (or aciduated malt to the mash) may be further than you want to go.

 

[mabrungard]

After looking around, I think that I am just going to forget salt additions. Maybe a gram or two and thats it.

Hmm?? You are going to be disappointed. Your water is fairly nice and low in ionic content and for an IIPA it is likely to be bland. Increasing the sulfate content of the water to at least 100 ppm will help, but 300 ppm in a big IIPA will significantly help dry the finish. As a compromise, I suggest that 200 ppm sulfate would be a good starting point.

The other point made above that I agree with is the inclusion of a simple sugar in the recipe to help dry the finish and reduce body. That is a trademark of the IIPA style and without that, all you are making is a hoppy barleywine.

 

[Natdavis777]

I would suggest brewing the same beer back to back, with one not adding any salt additions, and the other utilizing them. Then do a blind test and see which you prefer. Im willing to bet that you are going to navigate towards the beer with mineral additions.

 

[prcbrewer]

Even without plugging numbers into any calculator, your yeast will thank you for more calcium and sulphates are good for bringing out hop flavors, so some gypsum (at around 1g/G) seems like an easy way to kill two birds with one stone.

The Pliny malt bill is also pretty light so you're not going to get much help with your pH from the grain, but adding acid to your water (or aciduated malt to the mash) may be further than you want to go.

Alright, so I will be using 6.5 gallons of water for the mash. Adding 6.5 grams of gypsum should be sufficient and wont cause any problems in any way? I just want to be on the safe side with this so that I dont do more harm than good by messing with the water chemistry too much.

 

[prcbrewer]

Hmm?? You are going to be disappointed. Your water is fairly nice and low in ionic content and for an IIPA it is likely to be bland. Increasing the sulfate content of the water to at least 100 ppm will help, but 300 ppm in a big IIPA will significantly help dry the finish. As a compromise, I suggest that 200 ppm sulfate would be a good starting point.

The other point made above that I agree with is the inclusion of a simple sugar in the recipe to help dry the finish and reduce body. That is a trademark of the IIPA style and without that, all you are making is a hoppy barleywine.

I am adding 0.75# of dextrose to the boil as per the Pliny clone recipe. You recommend 100 ppm sulfates... Would adding just 6.5 grams of gypsum to the 6.5 gallons of mash water get me close enough to the 100 ppm target? Also, should any gypsum be added the boil at all? I am just a little confused how all of this works, so I am sorry for the nube water chemistry questions..

 

[WayFrae]

I am adding 0.75# of dextrose to the boil as per the Pliny clone recipe. You recommend 100 ppm sulfates... Would adding just 6.5 grams of gypsum to the 6.5 gallons of mash water get me close enough to the 100 ppm target? Also, should any gypsum be added the boil at all? I am just a little confused how all of this works, so I am sorry for the nube water chemistry questions..

I would just add about 2 teaspoons of gypsum to your mash water and call it good.

 

[btbnl]

Alright, so I will be using 6.5 gallons of water for the mash. Adding 6.5 grams of gypsum should be sufficient and wont cause any problems in any way? I just want to be on the safe side with this so that I dont do more harm than good by messing with the water chemistry too much.

It'll definitely help - a couple of teaspoons of gypsum should get your calcium up to more like 80 ppm and your sulphates to about 200 ppm. My only concern then is that your sulphate to chloride ratio would be very high, though as little as 1/4 teaspoon of table salt would fix that.

 

[danimalt]

just follow ajd's recommendations https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/ and add chloride or gypsum to the finished product to determine how to adjust going forward.

 

[prcbrewer]

just follow ajd's recommendations https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/ and add chloride or gypsum to the finished product to determine how to adjust going forward.

So for this IIPA, ajd would reccoment 2 tsp gypsum and 2 tsp chloride? Doesnt seem right..

 

[btbnl]

So for this IIPA, ajd would reccoment 2 tsp gypsum and 2 tsp chloride? Doesnt seem right..

For a more hop-centric beer, 2 tsp gypsum and 1 tsp calcium chloride would put you in the right ballpark.

 

[prcbrewer]

For a more hop-centric beer, 2 tsp gypsum and 1 tsp calcium chloride would put you in the right ballpark.

OK that sounds more on-target. So I will just add this to the mash, no sparge water or no addition to the boil, correct? And even if the 2 tsp gypsum and 1 tsp chloride was too much for my given water profile, it wouldnt ruin the beer by any means would it?

 

[WayFrae]

OK that sounds more on-target. So I will just add this to the mash, no sparge water or no addition to the boil, correct? And even if the 2 tsp gypsum and 1 tsp chloride was too much for my given water profile, it wouldnt ruin the beer by any means would it?

Add it to your HLT. You will mash in with this water and sparge with this water. I feel like you will definitely want it in your sparge water so the pH isn't too high.

 

[ajdelange]

In my personal opinion that's way too much but seems to be what people like. I advise starting low and working up.

 

[btbnl]

In my personal opinion that's way too much but seems to be what people like. I advise starting low and working up.

I thought these were precisely your recommendations. What am I misunderstanding?

 

[ajdelange]

I thought these were precisely your recommendations. What am I misunderstanding?

That I will serve people better by recommending what will produce beers they are likely to enjoy rather than ones I am likely to enjoy,

 

[btbnl]

That I will serve people better by recommending what will produce beers they are likely to enjoy rather than ones I am likely to enjoy,

Got it - thanks.