Brewing salts and RO water

[Arbe0]

I have been looking at brewing with RO water. I have the Book "Modern Homebrew Recipes" by Gordon Strong, most of the recipies call only for a tsp of CaCl (Calcium Cloride) and a few get CaSo (Calcium Sulphate) also. This seems like some minerals are missing when I do a water calcualtor. Please explain how this works and, if anyone has used this to brew a beer and how it turned out.

 

[DonT]

Check out this. Pretty good explanation about water adjustment.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I have been looking at brewing with RO water.

... and there are a couple approaches that don't require a water calculator. "Modern Homebrew Recipes" is one. Water Chemistry – How to Build Your Water – Bertus Brewery is another.

I have the Book "Modern Homebrew Recipes" by Gordon Strong, most of the recipies call only for a tsp of CaCl (Calcium Cloride) and a few get CaSo (Calcium Sulphate) also.

The use of just CaCl and/or CaS04 (no MgS04 or NaCl) is a piece of an interlocking process that allows for mashing any style of beer the same way with the same mineral adjustments.

The key idea is to mash only those grains that need to be mashed and 'mash cap' (similar to a steep) caramel / roasted malts. There are additional adjustments that are done to the RO water before the mash starts.

This seems like some minerals are missing when I do a water calcualtor.

With the process in "Modern Homebrew Recipes", the other minerals are apparently not needed.

Please explain how this works

The key idea is to mash just the malts that must be mashed and 'mash cap' / steep the rest of them. Some additional Calcium helps the mash; the malts apparently contain sufficient Mg and Na; and Cl / S04 can be added at numerous places in the brewing process.

if anyone has used this to brew a beer and how it turned out.

I have done something similar (using acidulated malt rather than phosphoric acid) a couple of times with pale ales and amber ales. The beer comes out fine. For me, brewing using BAIB techniques, it is easier to use something similar to Water Chemistry – How to Build Your Water – Bertus Brewery for water adjustments.

 

[Yesfan]

Check out this. Pretty good explanation about water adjustment.

Thanks for that link. It was very helpful.


I'm still new to water adjustments. My process is adding all the needed salts in the HLT as it heats up. Then I drain what I need into the mashtun when I hit my strike temp, then dough in.

Is it better to do it this way, or add it all in the mash at the same time you add the grains? Or, is it better to split it as mash additions & sparge additions? Kal seems to do two separate additions for the mash/sparge, so thought I would ask.

 

[DonT]

If you use the EZ water calculator, the first set of minerals go in the mash. The second set goes in the boil.

 

[Yesfan]

If you use the EZ water calculator, the first set of minerals go in the mash. The second set goes in the boil.

I get that. I was asking if one way is better than the other or if it even matters.

 

[DonT]

I get that. I was asking if one way is better than the other or if it even matters.

Oh ok... my thoughts on that would be if you added your salts to the water instead of the mash, some may sink to the bottom of the HLT and never mix in. Not an issue if you throw it on top of the soaking grains.

 

[MikeCo]

I have been looking at brewing with RO water. I have the Book "Modern Homebrew Recipes" by Gordon Strong, most of the recipies call only for a tsp of CaCl (Calcium Cloride) and a few get CaSo (Calcium Sulphate) also. This seems like some minerals are missing when I do a water calcualtor. Please explain how this works and, if anyone has used this to brew a beer and how it turned out.

I use RO water, and for most brews only add calcium chloride and gypsum to get the mash pH where I want it along with the proportions of calcium, sulfate and chloride. I use a scale to weigh the salts. I use Brun'Water or the calculator in BrewFather to determine how much I need. I will use a higher proportion of gypsum for hoppier beers and higher CaCl for maltier beers. For beers with a lot of darker malts I add some baking soda to get the pH up. Beers for which I have used this approach have turned out great. I've never seen the need to add epsom salts for zinc. I think the Wyeast nutrient I use in the boil has some anyway. I have always focused on calcium, sulfate and chloride as being the most important minerals in the water profile.

I would recommend weighing the salts if you have a gram scale and using a water calculator to see the finished profile. I think the recommendation for using a teaspoon measure is intended to keep the recipes in the book simple without getting too much into water chemistry.

 

[rmchair]

I use RO water, and for most brews only add calcium chloride and gypsum to get the mash pH where I want it along with the proportions of calcium, sulfate and chloride. I use a scale to weigh the salts. I use Brun'Water or the calculator in BrewFather to determine how much I need. I will use a higher proportion of gypsum for hoppier beers and higher CaCl for maltier beers. For beers with a lot of darker malts I add some baking soda to get the pH up. Beers for which I have used this approach have turned out great. I've never seen the need to add epsom salts for zinc. I think the Wyeast nutrient I use in the boil has some anyway. I have always focused on calcium, sulfate and chloride as being the most important minerals in the water profile.

I wish i had just read this 5 years ago.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I use RO water, and for most brews only add calcium chloride and gypsum to get the mash pH where I want it along with the proportions of calcium, sulfate and chloride. I use a scale to weigh the salts. I use Brun'Water or the calculator in BrewFather to determine how much I need. I will use a higher proportion of gypsum for hoppier beers and higher CaCl for maltier beers. For beers with a lot of darker malts I add some baking soda to get the pH up. Beers for which I have used this approach have turned out great. I've never seen the need to add epsom salts for zinc. I think the Wyeast nutrient I use in the boil has some anyway. I have always focused on calcium, sulfate and chloride as being the most important minerals in the water profile.

+1 for a good approach to water chemistry.

I think the recommendation for using a teaspoon measure is intended to keep the recipes in the book simple without getting too much into water chemistry.

In the book, the author states that the recipes are the actual recipes that he uses. It should also be noted that the author has opinions on the the amount of brewing salts he needs to use to produce beer he enjoys.

Maybe teaspoon additions of salts, in combination with other techniques, eliminate the need for gram scales (and batteries) and spreadsheets.

 

[rmchair]

So reading the electric brewing page, he mentions to adjust the sparge water ph to avoid pulling tannins.
My method has been to mash with adjusted RO water. Then use filtered tap water fairly hard, hi ph stuff, to sparge -figuring i am just washing the sugars.
Its funny, yesterday i noticed that while my sparge water was filtering through the grains, the aroma in the room turned a bit grainy. I assumed it was from ramping the wort up to a boil.
I was doing a black ipa so there i was trying to be careful about getting too acidic or pulling to many tannins. (Opted for a balanced slightly hoppy profile for this “crossover” beer)

 

[DonT]

I have a 3v herms system and collect all my water in the HLT and adjust that. Then add the salts in the mash and boil.

 

[Yesfan]

Oh ok... my thoughts on that would be if you added your salts to the water instead of the mash, some may sink to the bottom of the HLT and never mix in. Not an issue if you throw it on top of the soaking grains.

Thank you! One more question. Would be it good/bad to just add all the additions needed in with the grains? My thinking is to keep everything simplified in one single measurement. Sometimes I get a bit forgetful in the brew day, so one less step to not worry about.

 

[DonT]

Thank you! One more question. Would be it good/bad to just add all the additions needed in with the grains? My thinking is to keep everything simplified in one single measurement. Sometimes I get a bit forgetful in the brew day, so one less step to not worry about.

I think if you did that, adding all the salts to the mash, it would mess up the mash pH. In what way, I don't know. It"s a chemistry question that's above my pay grade...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Would be it good/bad to just add all the additions needed in with the grains? My thinking is to keep everything simplified in one single measurement. Sometimes I get a bit forgetful in the brew day, so one less step to not worry about.

From a quick scan of this topic, it looks like you mash & sparge.

IIRC, there are some aspects of the sparge water that you want to monitor (and perhaps adjust). The Bru'n Water spreadsheet / web site should have additional information.

 

[Yesfan]

@BrewnWKopperKat Yep, batch sparger. I've been using Brewfather for the water additions.

I think the next brew day, I'll just do it like Kal and @DonT . I'll just add the mash additions when I dough in and then just add the sparge additions when I start my boil. I could always add the sparge salt additions the same time as I do the bittering hops. I don't know why I didn't think of that before. (derp...)

 

[Arbe0]

lots of good answers here. thank you all for the information. I am going to try RO water and Gordon Strongs way of doing this. After that I may look at the water profile for the next one and adjust it to what I think looks good to me.

 

[brewbama]

Don’t forget AJ DeLange’s approach. It is similar To G Strong’s approach. (I use the Strong approach with some slight deviations and my pH is within spec every brewday.)

Thread 'A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer'
A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

In a nut shell:

Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:

For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3%

For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.

For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.