Brewing from kits

[jump_xiii]

Hi there,

Just a question or 2 about kits. Apologies if they're already answered...

I'm about to brew my second batch from a tin of extract. My first batch was a Youngs Lager starter kit. At the moment I'm just keeping it simple, trying to go by the "rules" on the box/tin.

The lager said first ferment should be 4 to 7 days (I did 6) then 2nd ferment in bottles. 3 weeks later and it was ok to drink and is getting better each time I drink it.

My question really is about 1st ferments. The stout kit I'm doing next says 7 to 10 days, but on this forum everyone is talking about weeks and weeks in primary, then more in secondary, then bottling.

What should I be doing with s big standard stout, no extra tweaks or anything? I just want to get a decent beer to drink for a few batches before I start customizing my kits...

 

[jump_xiii]

Sorry! Last paragraph should read "a bog standard kit". Damn you autocorrect!

 

[jerryboy]

yes, weeks and weeks is good. As you are finding out, it can get better with age.

Post/link the recipe and maybe someone can comment on that.

 

[petey_c]

If you bottle, 3 weeks in the primary and 3 weeks in the bottle. More complex/heavy/high alcohol brews benefit from extra time fermenting and bottle conditioning. Sometimes a year or more.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,those times on kit instructions are way too short in general. It can take a couple of weeks (3-4) to get down to a stable FG clean up by products & settle out more. I let them get clear or slightly hazy before priming & bottling.
3 weeks around 70F is the minimum carb time for an average gravity ale. But conditioning usually takes a bit longer in my experience. say 4-5 weeks. I don't secondary unless oaking,adding fruit,or the like.
Having said that,my dark whiskely ale took 9 weeks & 6 days to carb/condition,with 2 weeks fridge time for good head & long lasting carbonation.

 

[Brewnoob1]

For my very first brew, I did a canned extract with no hop additions or anything else....just the 2 cans. I let it ferment for a week and then bottled. The carb was there after about a week in the bottle, however the flavor and clarity was horrid. Almost to the point of not being able to drink. I just opened one last night after it sitting in the bottles for a few months. They were so freaking good...I was actually highly surprised. They are crystal clear as well now. I had to go out to the garage and make sure I was grabbing a bottle from the 1st batch I did. Sure enough, it was.

Lesson learned, follow the ideas on the forums and not from the instructions on the can. You will have much better beer without waiting months like I had to for a drinkable product. If I just left it in the primary for a few extra weeks, I probably wouldn't have had to wait 3 months for them to become great.

 

[unionrdr]

@ brewnoob1-That's the long & short of it. As a general rule,I give it 3-5 days after FG is reached (however long that takes) to clean up & settle out more. Rack to bottling bucket when clear or just slightly hazy.
Bottle away & let'em sit for 4-5 weeks to condition as well as carbonate. I've found conditioning takes a bit longer than carbonating.
But it's so worth the wait! Brew long & prosper!

 

[Brewnoob1]

Couldn't agree more. Though, I will give a heads up, it's HARD to be new and have the patience and not rush it. I'm still struggling with that even with a small pipeline now. But as you said, it's worth the wait.

 

[jump_xiii]

Thanks guys. I don't have a problem waiting- I want it to taste good, so I'm happy to 1st ferment for 2 or 3 weeks or whatever. I worried that leaving it too long would mean no yeast left for the 2nd fermentation/ carbonation. As noted above the lager tastes better and better every day that goes by.

At what point is there a danger of not enough yeast for carb?

 

[unionrdr]

Oh boy,don't I know it! It was maddening for me to wait after obssesing over my 1st brew like an expectant father. but we all go through it. This after making wine for so many years till I was about 30.
I guess some things really do remain constant...

 

[Brewnoob1]

Jump, there shouldn't be an issue. People primary/secondary for months and months without issues of having the yeast to carb. You should be fine regardless how long you wait...unless you go out like...6 months to a year, then someone with more experience should pipe in

 

[jump_xiii]

I really appreciate the info guys.

I'm all set up to get my stout going this weekend except having enough bottles. Knowing that 2, 3 or even more weeks would be good for it means I can get it started and by the time it's ready I will have drunk enough of brew #1 to bottle the stout.

Tomorrow is brew-day!

 

[Brewnoob1]

Woot! Good luck!

 

[AmandaK]

At what point is there a danger of not enough yeast for carb?

Around a year. I age my lambics for around a year and have to re-yeast at bottling.

 

[jump_xiii]

Well brew #2 done today- youngs harvest stout. Very simple kit. Now it's just a case of waiting. From the advice I've been offered I'm planning to 1st ferment for 14 or 21 days, rather than the 7 to 10 on the instructions... Then into bottles for 4 weeks minimum.

I was thinking of priming my bottles in the following way- 50% with regular sugar (as per instructions), 50% with some "molasses sugar" I picked up. It seems to have a very similar calorie content which I assume is all "sugar" that the yeast can feast on. Will priming with alternative sugar lead to any discernible difference in taste?

 

[helibrewer]

Well brew #2 done today- youngs harvest stout. Very simple kit. Now it's just a case of waiting. From the advice I've been offered I'm planning to 1st ferment for 14 or 21 days, rather than the 7 to 10 on the instructions... Then into bottles for 4 weeks minimum.

I was thinking of priming my bottles in the following way- 50% with regular sugar (as per instructions), 50% with some "molasses sugar" I picked up. It seems to have a very similar calorie content which I assume is all "sugar" that the yeast can feast on. Will priming with alternative sugar lead to any discernible difference in taste?

For bottling 5 gallons you will need about 1 cup of molasses. You will most likely have a little different flavor between the two bottlings. The molasses may take a bit longer to carb since the yeast is dealing with a little more complexity compared to sucrose only (table sugar).

 

[jump_xiii]

For bottling 5 gallons you will need about 1 cup of molasses. You will most likely have a little different flavor between the two bottlings. The molasses may take a bit longer to carb since the yeast is dealing with a little more complexity compared to sucrose only (table sugar).

Thanks- it isn't actually molasses that I have. It seems to be a dark brown sugar:

Billington's Natural Molasses Sugar- Unrefined Cane Sugar

http://www.billingtons.co.uk/home/products/unrefined-range/molasses

It's really dark, moist sugar- pretty solid in the packaging. I was hoping to just substitute the same quantity of this per bottle as regular sugar. I only have 1 FV and I bottle direct from that (in 100% of all of my previous 1 brew!) with 1/2 teaspoon per pint bottle.

Keen to hear further info on what people would expect, if there seems to be a consensus that it won't work I'll just do 1/4 of the batch as an experiment rather than half...

Is the fact that it's unrefined something that I should worry about?

 

[unionrdr]

No,unrefined is cool. I've primed with demerara before,it's raw cane sugar. Nice light brown sugar laced with honey kind of flavor. I put it in 2C of boiled water,stirred to dissolve. Cooled & primed with that in a bottling bucket that cost me about $12 to make.

 

[jump_xiii]

Brew #1 in the glass, brew #2 just started in FV.

 

[jump_xiii]

Well the stout was started yesterday and went out into the shed with the heat belt around it in more or less the same position as I used the first time with my lager. What I didn't factor in is that 5 weeks further into winter it was pretty cold last night. I have a little aquarium thermometer stuck on the outside of my FV and it had dropped off the scale- lower than 16•C (60•F).

I've done my best to warm it up in situ, wrapped in towels, moved heat belt as far down on the FV as possible, switched on an electric heater in the shed, and it is now creeping up to around 16•-18•C (60•-64•F), and there are bubbles forming on the top.

I'm planning to leave it 14 days or more- so I don't think this slow start should harm it, but it's just my second brew- can too low a temp at the start cause problems? The yeast was pitched at the right temp.

 

[unionrdr]

I don't think so,as long as sanitation was good,& it stayed sealed up. The yeast just went dormant & needed to be warmed up to get to work again.

 

[BrewStooge]

Too low shouldn't be a problem. Depending on the yeast I find that 62 +/- 2 is an excellent ambient temp. It lets the yeast slow down and do their work gently without throwing off all the extras that come with a high temp room.

 

[jump_xiii]

Got home today after work and the temp is up around 76•F!

Not sure what this will turn out like now with such temp variation...

There is a good inch of foam on top too.