Brewing Dunkel - need quick sanity check

[GoodmanBrewing]

Hey everyone, I am diving into the world of water. I'll keep this short and focused.

Grain Bill:
4.5lbs German Vienna
4.5lbs Munich
0.5lbs Dark Munich
0.5lbs Caramel 80L
0.125lbs Carafra III Special

5 gallon batch and needing around 7.6-7.8 gallons in total water for the brew. I will be batch sparging and will divide strike/sparge water accordingly to get equal runnings.

I am using RO water and according to some calculators I need to add 1 teaspoon of gypsum and 1.4 teaspoons of calcium chloride to obtain a mash ph of roughly 5.35. I have never done this before. Does this sound in the ballpark and is that all I need to do? Should I add all salts/minerals to the mash water only?


Thanks for the replies.

 

[Big Monk]

Hey everyone, I am diving into the world of water. I'll keep this short and focused.



Grain Bill:

4.5lbs German Vienna

4.5lbs Munich

0.5lbs Dark Munich

0.5lbs Caramel 80L

0.125lbs Carafra III Special



5 gallon batch and needing around 7.6-7.8 gallons in total water for the brew. I will be batch sparging and will divide strike/sparge water accordingly to get equal runnings.



I am using RO water and according to some calculators I need to add 1 teaspoon of gypsum and 1.4 teaspoons of calcium chloride to obtain a mash ph of roughly 5.35. I have never done this before. Does this sound in the ballpark and is that all I need to do? Should I add all salts/minerals to the mash water only?





Thanks for the replies.

Who is the maltster?

 

[GoodmanBrewing]

Who is the maltster?

4.5lb German Vienna - Weyermann
4.5lbs Munich - Weyermann
0.5lbs Dark Munich - Weyermann
0.5lbs Caramel 80L - Briess
0.125lbs Carafra III Special - Weyermann


Thank you

 

[Bilsch]

This is the tweak I'd make to your grainbill but it's just one opinion.

4.5lb German Vienna - Weyermann
2.5lbs Munich - Weyermann
2.5lbs Dark Munich - Weyermann
0.5lbs Caramunich I - Weyermann
1 oz Carafa II Special

 

[GoodmanBrewing]

This is the tweak I'd make to your grainbill but it's just one opinion.

4.5lb German Vienna - Weyermann
2.5lbs Munich - Weyermann
2.5lbs Dark Munich - Weyermann
0.5lbs Caramunich I - Weyermann
1 oz Carafa II Special

How come?

Unfortunatly I'm stuck with this as its already crushed and bagged. There were a lot of receipes I was seeing and this was one northern brewer had thrown together so I copied it as a general receipe to get into the style. I prefer lagers and finally have the ability to do them so I will be brewing a lot more in time. Still have lots to learn. Thank you for your input.

 

[Big Monk]

4.5lb German Vienna - Weyermann

4.5lbs Munich - Weyermann

0.5lbs Dark Munich - Weyermann

0.5lbs Caramel 80L - Briess

0.125lbs Carafra III Special - Weyermann





Thank you

Ok, I entered your recipe into my water sheet using 5.90 for distilled water pH based on last years Weyermann batches.

Using your grain bill and 0.55 g/gal of CaCl, I had you at 5.67.

So you will need to acidity in some way to get down to 5.35.

 

[GoodmanBrewing]

Ok, I entered your recipe into my water sheet using 5.90 for distilled water pH based on last years Weyermann batches.

Using your grain bill and 0.55 g/gal of CaCl, I had you at 5.67.

So you will need to acidity in some way to get down to 5.35.

Thank you for doing that. So
Adding something like lactic acid would do the trick? Like I said this is my first time playing with this stuff. would I add the salts/minerals and the acid all to the mash water then proceed to doughing in?

Edit: wouldn't distilled water have a ph of 7? I'm assuming RO and distilled would be very close. Thank you.

 

[Big Monk]

Thank you for doing that. So

Adding something like lactic acid would do the trick? Like I said this is my first time playing with this stuff. would I add the salts/minerals and the acid all to the mash water then proceed to doughing in?



Edit: wouldn't distilled water have a ph of 7? I'm assuming RO and distilled would be very close. Thank you.

No problem!

I can run your numbers later or if you'd like, maybe give my spreadsheet a try:

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/water-a-new-water-chemistry-spreadsheet/

I can run the numbers for lactic acid or acid malt for you tonight if you'd like.

 

[Bilsch]

How come?

Unfortunatly I'm stuck with this as its already crushed and bagged. There were a lot of receipes I was seeing and this was one northern brewer had thrown together so I copied it as a general receipe to get into the style.

My apologies I didn't read very close that you were looking for water adjustment advice and not for the grain bill. What I posted was simply a preference for all German ingredients in that style. However your recipe will make a fine dunkel. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Big Monk]

I ran your numbers and it looks like the following would do it:

1.13 ml of lactic acid added to the mash or 2% Acid malt for 5.31 pH with the addition of 1.31 g of gypsum and 2.25 g of calcium chloride.

I assumed 3.75 gallons strike and 3.75 gallons Sparge.

 

[GoodmanBrewing]

No problem!

I can run your numbers later or if you'd like, maybe give my spreadsheet a try:

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/water-a-new-water-chemistry-spreadsheet/

I can run the numbers for lactic acid or acid malt for you tonight if you'd like.

That's very helpful. Sweet sheet!

So I plan to mash with about 3.65 gallons of water giving me a ratio of 1.4. my thoughts are that I will heat this water as normal then dissolve which ever salts, minerals and/or acids into the water first before adding grain. add the grain, hit target temp and carry on as normal. then I planned to sparge with just RO water (nothing added). Is this the correct course of action?


I guess what I'm looking for is a very general "add this and this in these amounts to the strike water and then dough-in"
http://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/ this simple calculator appears to do that. Nothing against yours or any of the other calculators, I just do not understand them yet, but I will learn. Before I become a water guru though the simple calculator helps me.
When I choose the "Munich(Dark Lager)" selection and I enter the values for the source water which is for RO. I simply adjust the additions till I am in the targeted range. Is this a good tool to get in the ballpark?

Last question for now: I was told to enter the total amount of water to use this calculator (the brewers friend one). "Water volume is all the water going into the mash, including losses and boil off. It is not the batch size or boil size. If you plan to have extra water left behind in your HLT, count that as well." So I assume this means ALL water that will come in contact with grain so for me that would be all 7.75 gallons which will make up the strike and sparge. If I am correct up till now, then I must wonder does that mean I treat all 7.75 gallons or just the water that I am mashing with?

Thank you all for all your help, I appreciate it.

 

[GoodmanBrewing]

I ran your numbers and it looks like the following would do it:

1.13 ml of lactic acid added to the mash or 2% Acid malt for 5.31 pH with the addition of 1.31 g of gypsum and 2.25 g of calcium chloride.

I assumed 3.75 gallons strike and 3.75 gallons Sparge.

You rock! Thank you for taking your time to do that, I really appreciate it!!

This is exactly what I am looking for. And all the additions go into the mash water or ALL water?

 

[Big Monk]

You rock! Thank you for taking your time to do that, I really appreciate it!!



This is exactly what I am looking for. And all the additions go into the mash water or ALL water?

In this case you'd add them to the mash water and then it will just get diluted with the sparge.

 

[JimRausch]

A general rule (at least it seems to be in Brunwater) is to add the same salts in your sparge water, and acidify it too.(It always has me add 3ml lactic acid to sparge water no matter what else I do)

 

[Big Monk]

A general rule (at least it seems to be in Brunwater) is to add the same salts in your sparge water, and acidify it too.(It always has me add 3ml lactic acid to sparge water no matter what else I do)

Unless you are sparging with DI/RO water. In that case, acidifying your sparge water is not useful.

 

[GoodmanBrewing]

Thanks everyone for your inputs on this. I feel prepared for brew day.

I am using Saflager W-34/70. I have an expected OG of 1052 and volume of ~5.3 gallons going into the primary. I am going to chill to 45 and pitch then let rise to 49. Will two packs be enough? I do rehydrate. I have 6 packs of this yeast and thought maybe three would be better for such a cold pitch.

 

[GoodmanBrewing]

Here it is! Still needs some more time lagering but I can say with confidence it is the best beer I have made yet, almost exactly what I was looking for. Taste just like the dunkel a local brewery makes near me. Very similar to a modelo negra.
Thanks for all of the help everyone!