Brewery Build - Single Tier HERMS

[BucksPA]

Make 10-15 gallon fermenters out of them. there's a guy on HBT that makes a tri-clover set up for them. Great use in my opinion. I turned another keg into a cooler for bbq's etc but now wish I had not cut the top off.

that would be http://www.brewershardware.com/fermenter.htm

 

[nicksteck]

looks great!

the only thing i would be concerned about is the height of your pumps, if you are going to have disconnect fittings coming into the bottom of your pumps you will need room for your hose to make a 180 degree turn and come back up into the bottom of the pump.

you may have enough room and i just don't see it.

i like the 3D drawings, this will help other builders, that is one think i wish i had for my build post, i had it all in my head which did not help others

good luck and enjoy the build with your sons

 

[mplutodh1]

looks great!

the only thing i would be concerned about is the height of your pumps, if you are going to have disconnect fittings coming into the bottom of your pumps you will need room for your hose to make a 180 degree turn and come back up into the bottom of the pump.

you may have enough room and i just don't see it.

i like the 3D drawings, this will help other builders, that is one think i wish i had for my build post, i had it all in my head which did not help others

good luck and enjoy the build with your sons

Could call on the pump location - it had actually crossed my mind a while back - we'll likely put a 90 on there and have the QD come off to the side of the pump so its an easier hose route without risk of kinking.

Oh by the way I'm the oldest son - my dad and younger brother haven't made the jump to be members on here. But we're all enjoying the build.

 

[NewBrewB]

*Subscribed* (even though this is light years beyond my own ambitions at this point.) Thanks for sharing the project in such detail! Any plans to monitor the ACTUAL costs of the project? I noticed you said you got the order estimate from your welder but didn't say what the estimate was.

I gave my wife a keezer estimate of $100 but I spent that and all I have is a collar and some plywood.

 

[mplutodh1]

Yup - I'm tracking the actuals (like the first post says - I'm a bit OCD) I've been tracking everything in a detailed spreadsheet. The final build sheet with links to all of the products we purchased, part #s, prices (including shipping cost per vendor for orders) will be posted.

 

[flananuts]

I dig the spreadsheet but cringe to think that I too spent that much or more on my single tier HERMS build. However the product is unbelieveable and every brew session I get even more efficient on all aspects from setup, brew, clean, and put away. I saw that you plan on using high temp silicone tubing. I went with hi-temp thermoplastic at 1.50 a foot and have been super pleased with it. It might help you shave a few points off your price tag. QD's are also great when it's time to go from BK into fermenter. Do you plan to pump to fermenter or just gravity from ferm into carboy/keg etc?

 

[mplutodh1]

Yeah - it's no inexpensive undertaking that's for sure. But we've done pretty well saving in many places I believe. The spreadsheet doesn't reflect everything currently - I'll post later which should reflect everything.

We're leaning more towards the silicone because I've seen folks have good results with it on here plus it's a bit translucent so you can see some fluid in it; not sure you can get that same result with the thermoplastic tubing. We're using the CamLock quick disconnects - they actually showed up last week. We'll be pumping to the fermenter after running through a coiling cycle in the HERMS coil with an ice bath in the HLT.

 

[southpawbrew]

Compliments on the project...obviously a labor of love...the attention to detail is to be commended and it will benefit numerous other HBT's planning or dreaming about such a build. I look forward to your vendor list and links to the items you used from each. The cam locks from pro flow dynamics look great. First I've heard of those. Interested to see how you like them.

Are you planning on hard plumbing the 50' of 1/2 copper tubing in the HLT? Using that as your HERMS coil and then pumping from the BK back to the HLT coil for cooling?

 

[mplutodh1]

Greg - we've actually been toying around with how we want to connect our HERMS coil - after a trip to the hardware store yesterday I think we've got a plan that allows us to remove the coil if we need to at any point - however that's unlikely I think. I'll post details when we get to that point. Also - we won't be using all 50' for the HERMs coil - likely around 25' as that seems to work for most folks on here. And yes, we'll use the HERMS coil back to cool - utilizing an ice bath in the HLT at that point. Inexpensive and effective solution - no sense spending the $ on a plate chiller that will clog with pelleted hops, etc.

 

[southpawbrew]

That's exactly what I'm working on is attaching the coil for both HERMS use and cooling. In your research what made you go with copper over stainless. I've read the heat conductivity property benefits of cooper but like the durability of stainless. Here's a great thread about this and a nice example of a stainless set up. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/stainless-steel-copper-herms-coil-138139/#post1565417.

Looking for as much info as I can before I pull the trigger.

 

[flananuts]

FWIW, I kept the coil out of the HLT and just recirc the HLT as the control through the convoluted CFC and the wort in the opposite direction. When it is time to cool, I just switch the valves, and start running water through the opposite direction. Since I'm recirculating the HLT liquor I don't need the use of a motor nor a paddle to keep temperatures even. Having the connections to the faucet are also great when filling and cleaning the system. I know a lot of folks choose to pump the wort through the coil in the HLT, I just chose a different route.


A shot of the pumps and heat/cool exchanger. The hose connections are also a great way for flushing the copper coil and filling up kettles for cleaning.

Regarding the thermoplastic, it's completely opaque so there's no watching the wort through the lines. I use polysulphone QD's and have been very pleased with the design.

I'm looking fwd to seeing your system built and brewing away! If my Dad and brother were here in the NJ, I'm sure I would have two committed brew buddies.

 

[mplutodh1]

flananuts - Interesting design; I like it. Glad it's working out for you.

That's exactly what I'm working on is attaching the coil for both HERMS use and cooling. In your research what made you go with copper over stainless. I've read the heat conductivity property benefits of cooper but like the durability of stainless. Here's a great thread about this and a nice example of a stainless set up. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/stainless-steel-copper-herms-coil-138139/#post1565417.

Looking for as much info as I can before I pull the trigger.

I'm not sure what the fittings are called that we found at the hardware store - but they are basically just compression fittings. We'll solder a little stub to the one end of the compression fitting and then a threaded 1/2" NPT so we can thread that into the side of the keg easily, then the other side of the compression fitting will be attached to the coil itself.

We opted for copper for a few reasons - 1) We really wanted to introduce copper to the brewing process in some way or another - obviously copper kettles would be slick but crazy expensive! The coil was a good bet. From what I've been reading a lot of the big microbreweries have copper somewhere in their process. 2) Copper is a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to work with. Copper fittings are readily available at any hardware store. 3) The heat conductivity properties you mention were also key - the more efficient we can make the system the better.

Because the copper in the HLT is really just in a bath of water - and the systems are conducive to a clean in place by running boiling water/cleaner through - I really doubt we'll have maintenance issues with the copper. Nor have I heard anyone on here complain about it's durability. Either will work - it's one of the dozens of questions and debates anyone tackling a project like this will encounter! Enjoy your build!

 

[diatonic]

Looking good. I'm working on a similar single-tier HERMS build. I'm replacing the stir motor in my current HERMS rig with a whirlpool like setup in the HLT. Rather than stir the HLT, I'll use one of the march pumps to recirculate the water in the HLT in a whirlpool, eliminating the need for a stir motor. Since I already needed 2 march pumps to fly sparge single tier it seemed like a good way to simplify the design a bit.

Good luck! Subscribed.

 

[flananuts]

Diatonic, I do the exact same thing. Do you have any pics of your setup? Also, where do you measure your wort temp?

 

[diatonic]

Flananuts, I'm going to be starting a thread on it soon, in the next week or so. Right now it's mostly diagrams. I've got the HLT welded and quite a few of the fittings I'll need. I'll PM you a link when it's posted.

 

[Bigscience]

MPLUTODH1,

I live in the area and am looking at building a very similar system. Do you know if your welder would be interested?

Also, maybe I missed it but what was the size and gage of your tubing?

Keep up the good work.

 

[mplutodh1]

MPLUTODH1,

I live in the area and am looking at building a very similar system. Do you know if your welder would be interested?

Also, maybe I missed it but what was the size and gage of your tubing?

Keep up the good work.

I can ask Wednesday when we pick up our frame. He's a friend of ours that does these types of projects on the side - has a family and full time daily job so I'm not sure how much availability he has but I can ask.

As far as tubing - it's 2" square for the frame itself - I'll have to check on the gauge we went with and get back to you.

 

[diatonic]

I would recommend rotating the pump heads 180°. It can be a real pain to prime pumps with the input on the bottom, because of the loop formed at the bottom. Also, if you can raise your pumps higher, you will get higher flow rates through your march pumps, since they don't have to overcome as much pressure.

Just my 2 cents. Looking sweet.

 

[mplutodh1]

I would recommend rotating the pump heads 180°. It can be a real pain to prime pumps with the input on the bottom, because of the loop formed at the bottom. Also, if you can raise your pumps higher, you will get higher flow rates through your march pumps, since they don't have to overcome as much pressure.

Just my 2 cents. Looking sweet.

We'll keep the pump priming thought in mind when we mount the pumps. As you'll notice from the drawing we've made our stand very "short" to accommodate easy viewing into the keggles - in turn there is only 14" between the cross beams - not sure we will have too much to worry about pressure wise but if we run into problems we can always move them up.

 

[flananuts]

My HLT pump always primes with no problem, but my MLT pump needs a little love. So when I fill up the MLT with the initial strike water I force the air out pushing water into my coil and through the pump. It wasn't ideal but once the pump is primed, it never loses it.

I actually had to replace the silicone washer between the impeller and the polysulphone housing because I burned it up running the pump dry. It's amazing that a .30c part can cause the pump to come to a screeching halt!

 

[mplutodh1]

Update 1/20/10

Updated build list with most recent parts, prices, etc. Picking up the brewstand tonight from the welder and will post photos.

 

[mplutodh1]

Posted photos in the first post - got home a little while ago after making a trip out to our welders. He had the stand ready to go and welded on the hinges while we waited. Bolted on the wheels and handle, loaded it up in the truck and headed home. Set the kegs on just for looks - we'll bolt them to the trays in the coming days.

Making progress!

 

[flananuts]

just looked at the frame, looks great!

 

[Cyan]

OMG, pluto...! Your brewstand is amazing!!!
I love the details you included: measurements, parts list, etc.
Beautiful work!
TY for the inspiration!

 

[mplutodh1]

Update 2/06/10
Been sick the past few weeks so no headway had been made. But today spent some time this morning working on things. Got the keg tops cut off, jig worked out awesome. Also drilled and tapped the under side of the frame to mount our burner boxes. This week we'll drill the burner boxes, mount the burners and then mount the burner boxes/burners to the frame.

Picked up a step bit for drilling the holes for our couplings so hope to get those drilled next weekend.

Also picked up a 1/2" D Handle drill from Harbor Freight on sale, to use with the Monster Mill MM2 we picked up a few weeks back.

 

[Bigscience]

Where did you get the lids? I like them better than my crappy ones.

 

[mplutodh1]

Amazon actually - they are a little thinner than we originally wanted but they will work just fine. Also have a 4 for 3 deal on Amazon so we got 4 lids for the price of 3 - in case we need a spare anytime.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K18GCS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[BrewBeemer]

Not only a great price but a tall handle allowing for insulating the cover and leaving the handle exposed to lift off.
On the 12" or 10", what is the lids actual step diameter? Reason asking is can the keg be cut smaller than the posted lid size for a close fit?
Cut the kegs to match the lids is my thinking.

 

[mplutodh1]

Not only a great price but a tall handle allowing for insulating the cover and leaving the handle exposed to lift off.
On the 12" or 10", what is the lids actual step diameter? Reason asking is can the keg be cut smaller than the posted lid size for a close fit?
Cut the kegs to match the lids is my thinking.

I'd have to measure - but ours was the advertised 12" lid and the hole was just under 12" - and it fits snug on one of our kegs, the other two we cut just a tad bigger apparently as they are a little looser but still fit nicely.

 

[BrewBeemer]

I'd have to measure - but ours was the advertised 12" lid and the hole was just under 12" - and it fits snug on one of our kegs, the other two we cut just a tad bigger apparently as they are a little looser but still fit nicely.

Thanks bro as i'll order a set of four for three 10" with plans of cutting the keg tops undersized after I measure the lids. I like slip fits for my next brewery build.