Brewer's Edge Mash & Boil

[kendrid]

Aaaaand let the hot side aeration freak out posts begin 😁

I hadn't changed my brewing process in many years and I forgot about that. I did some reading of recent tests and at the homebrew scale hot side aeration seems to be not a big deal.

The beer I brewed in that photo was a simple blonde ale and it is clean with no off flavors. It turned out really well for my first brew on a new system.

I will on my next brews not just dump it from one container to the next. Even though modern results say hot side aeration isn't an issue I prefer to not add potential issues.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

My facetious tone didn't come through in text! I was expecting the hot side aeration bogey man to start showing up despite all evidence pointing heavily in the direction of it not being a concern, at least not on our scale. Hope you didn't waste too much time because I failed to be clear that I was poking fun!

 

[kendrid]

My facetious tone didn't come through in text! I was expecting the hot side aeration bogey man to start showing up despite all evidence pointing heavily in the direction of it not being a concern, at least not on our scale. Hope you didn't waste too much time because I failed to be clear that I was poking fun!

No issues. I spent five minutes looking into it and found that the majority doesn't find it to be a real issue.

Still though, I'll hook up a hose just in case there is a slight chance of ruining a batch. But then that hose could be contaminated with nasty bacteria.... Damn this hobby.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Lol, yup!

 

[Ian57]

I have just restarted all grain brewing after a long hiatus, 35 years to be more accurate. So after a little research I plumped for the mash and boil and a separate pump. I have done a brew, see previous post. For this brew I did not have the pump set up to recirculate the mash. However I have just read this article https://learn.kegerator.com/recirculating-mash/ To paraphrase he says unless you recirculate when all grain brewing you are not making the best beer you can.

So here are a few questions bearing in mind I still have to dial in the temps on the Mash and Boil when mashing.

Is this true?

If/when I set up the recirculating pump the maximum length of pipe run will be around 4 foot will the heat loss be that bad?

If I wanted to reheat the mash before going back to Mash and Boil is this practical?

 

[Vabeer]

I'm running a pump also, and I haven't found heat loss to be a big problem. I'm probably running about 4 feet of silicon tubing. I monitor the grain bed temp with a separate thermometer, and when it's about to drop below target, I manually bump up the temperature on the control panel so the heating element kicks on for a minute or two, and that brings the mash temp back into range. I usually end up doing this about 3 times during a 60 minute mash. I've also been lining the grain tube with a 5 gallon nylon paint strainer. It makes clean up really easy, and I'm getting a lot less grain residue in the bottom of the kettle.

 

[Mainer]

So... I got my mash & boil and was wondering if somebody can help me troubleshoot efficiency problems with it. On my BIAB setup, I was running 75-78% efficiency. With the m&b, I'm averaging 57% efficiency, and it's super-annoying. I'm not recirculating constantly during the mash, but I recirculated a half-gallon every 10 minutes or so. I did a 90-minute mash and a 2-gallon batch sparge over 60 minutes.

 

[Vabeer]

Mainer - What's your grain to water ratio in the mash? In the Williams Brewing support blog, they report getting 88% efficiency with an 11 pound grain bill using .3 gallons of strike water per pound. I tried this and its no picnic, the mash gets really really thick - I also compacted my grain bed - it was a terrible brew day. I'm not sure why this makes a difference, however I'm wondering if the M&B grain tube might be prone to channeling if the mash is less dense. I typically hit about 65%.

 

[Mainer]

Mainer - What's your grain to water ratio in the mash? In the Williams Brewing support blog, they report getting 88% efficiency with an 11 pound grain bill using .3 gallons of strike water per pound. I tried this and its no picnic, the mash gets really really thick - I also compacted my grain bed - it was a terrible brew day. I'm not sure why this makes a difference, however I'm wondering if the M&B grain tube might be prone to channeling if the mash is less dense. I typically hit about 65%.

My last batch was a porter with 12 Lbs grain to 4.5 gallons of strike water and a 2-gallon sparge over 60. I did a 90 minute mash with the base grains (8# UK 2-row and 2# Victory) and added the dark malts with 30 left in the mash. Calculating at 70% efficiency, the software said I should have hit 1.058. I clocked it at 1.048.

I've thought of a couple possible culprits.
1) maybe it's my hydrometer? It's the same old one I've been using so it seems unlikely that it would stop reading properly at exactly the time I happen to have changed systems, but I have dropped it and banged it a few times. It's possible there's a micro-crack or some other defect I can't see.
2) Dough balls? I haven't noticed any, but the M&B's gain basket is pretty narrow and could be compressing the grain. When I dough in, I just put all the grain in the basket and put it in all at once. Could there be a benefit to submerging the basket and then adding the grain a little at a time with stirring in between to avoid stuck mash?

 

[Vabeer]

Mainer - what was your mash temp and are you using a thermometer in the grain bed?

 

[Mainer]

Mainer - what was your mash temp and are you using a thermometer in the grain bed?

I just used the mash & boil's internal thermostat. I set it for 152, so it bounced a few times, as high as 156 and as low as 148, but centered on 152. During the mash, I manually recirculated about a gallon off the bottom onto the top of the grain bed every 10-15 minutes.

 

[Vabeer]

That could be an issue, since the M&B temp sensor is located on the bottom, you're only measuring the temperature of the wort below the grain tube. It's also very close to the heating elements, so I think the temp fluctuations could be pretty localized. The manual recirculation could be keeping your grain temp at target, but without a thermometer in the mash, there is no way to tell for sure. You might consider getting an inexpensive mash thermometer and take readings in different parts of the grain bed to make sure you're hitting your target temp in the mash, and that its evenly distributed.

 

[Mainer]

That could be an issue, since the M&B temp sensor is located on the bottom, you're only measuring the temperature of the wort below the grain tube. It's also very close to the heating elements, so I think the temp fluctuations could be pretty localized. The manual recirculation could be keeping your grain temp at target, but without a thermometer in the mash, there is no way to tell for sure. You might consider getting an inexpensive mash thermometer and take readings in different parts of the grain bed to make sure you're hitting your target temp in the mash, and that its evenly distributed.

I've got an old-school mash thermometer I used to use when I did BIAB, so double-checking the temp shouldn't be difficult on my next batch. I figured that would be a bit of an issue, so I have been stirring the mash with a paddle more frequently in the M&B than I do on BIAB.

 

[Mainer]

With the bottom-mounted heating element, how great is the level of benefit in attaching a pump for continuous recirculation? I've avoided it because I didn't want to worry about the extra cleaning and added tubing, but am rethinking that reluctance.

 

[Vabeer]

I'm only getting mid-sixties efficiency, so it's not helping me that much (going to try conditioning the grain and check my water chemistry next) but there are also other benefits. My wort is clearer, and I don't need a separate sparge water heater. I've been heating about 6.5- 7 gallons in the M&B to around 190 (I'm going to try 200 next time - I fill it the night before and set the timer), and pump about 2-3 gallons into a cooler I set up as a holding tank. Then I add a little more cold water to the M&B to hit my strike water targets, mash in, swap out the hoses and recirculate wort after the mash has time to swell & settle. When the mash is done, I swap the hoses again and pump the sparge water over the grain. Cleanup is fairly easy, the pump and hoses don't add much to the process - since the first and last thing to go through the pump is hot water, it stays pretty clean. During the boil I toss the hoses & grain tube into a big plastic tub outside with a little Oxyclean, and fill it with the hot water discharge from the wort chiller. They soak while the wort is chilling, all the hoses need is a quick rinse & the grain tube comes clean with minimal scrubbing.

 

[Gastamm]

This is a great thread. I think I'm going to grab one of these. Has anyone tried Kettle souring with the brewer's edge? Seems like it would be pretty easy with the sealed lid to pump out O2 and keep at about 110 for a couple of days. Then just crank up the heat and bring up to a boil when desired PH is met. Dying to make a Gose and this setup seems like it would make it relatively easy.

 

[augiedoggy]

This is a great thread. I think I'm going to grab one of these. Has anyone tried Kettle souring with the brewer's edge? Seems like it would be pretty easy with the sealed lid to pump out O2 and keep at about 110 for a couple of days. Then just crank up the heat and bring up to a boil when desired PH is met. Dying to make a Gose and this setup seems like it would make it relatively easy.

Ive done sours this way with my electric brewery and it does work well this version should work just as well if not better with the seal.

 

[bedman]

Anyone have inner diameter measurements for the inside of the pot and also the inside of the malt pipe? Looking to maybe use the ss brewtech mash manifold for recirc/sparge but not sure if it will fit in at 12.6" diameter. Also want to make sure my immersion chiller would fit in the pot.

 

[augiedoggy]

If your talking about the sparge adapter I doubt it will fit... I'm about to replace my ss brew sparge adapter with a silicone hose... It restricts flow and plugs with grain after I stop the sparge making it a pain to clean at times and Ive tested it vs a regular piece of hose and theres zero difference in brewing efficiency.. Its basically just bling thats causing me more headaches at this point since I always keep the liquid level above the grainbed and it really would only have a theoretical advange if I was doing something like a partiguile mash sparge over a drained grainbed like many sparge arms of this type..

 

[bedman]

Well I took the plunge a pre-ordered one. Not sure how long it will take to receive. I still would like to know some more specific measurements of the kettle & mash pipe if anyone has that info to share. Still thinking about recirc options and potential bottom screen to help with keeping grain from sneaking through.

 

[hausofstrauss]

Anyone have inner diameter measurements for the inside of the pot and also the inside of the malt pipe? Looking to maybe use the ss brewtech mash manifold for recirc/sparge but not sure if it will fit in at 12.6" diameter. Also want to make sure my immersion chiller would fit in the pot.

If you are talking about the cast spout, it has an ID of 0.370" that opens up to 0.594" at the threaded portion, which I believe is a 1/2" NPT thread.

ID of the pot is about 11.66" and ID of the inner basket is about 10.125", but there is a rolled lip that protrudes inward that is about 0.168" wide.

Also, beware, the top of the brew kettle has an octagon shaped piece of bar around it so that when you pull the inner basket out, you can rest the screws/posts on it to let it drain.

If I'm looking at the same one, the SS brewtech mash manifold is 12.6" OD, so it probably won't fit either way.

 

[bedman]

If you are talking about the cast spout, it has an ID of 0.370" that opens up to 0.594" at the threaded portion, which I believe is a 1/2" NPT thread.

ID of the pot is about 11.66" and ID of the inner basket is about 10.125", but there is a rolled lip that protrudes inward that is about 0.168" wide.

Also, beware, the top of the brew kettle has an octagon shaped piece of bar around it so that when you pull the inner basket out, you can rest the screws/posts on it to let it drain.

If I'm looking at the same one, the SS brewtech mash manifold is 12.6" OD, so it probably won't fit either way.

Thanks for the info! Looks like my "pre-order" went pretty quick because it is out for delivery as of this morning! Looking forward to getting started with the M&B.

 

[firerat]

I do BIAB and this thing looks perfect for my needs.

I've been wrapping blankets around a big steel pot for years with minimal temp loss in the Florida sun. Now I can do that inside. And it's not going to cost me $500!!

Sold. Just ordered one.

 

[bedman]

Just adding to the the discussion of mash temp fluctuation. I made a 3 layer reflectix jacket (no air gap) and a 1 layer lid that pretty much covers the entire unit down to the top of the controller. While temp on the controller dropped a few degrees during the mash (it did overshoot initially), the digital probe thermometer I had in the center of the mash held steady for the entire 60min right at my calculated mash in temp! Damn impressive!

I did have some issues with grain getting through the malt pipe so I am going to try a 5gal paint strainer bag next brew.

Also, with the reflectix jacket my boil was more than adequate. Much more vigorous than some I have seen online.

 

[bedman]

 

[Vabeer]

For anyone on Facebook, there is a Williams Mash & Boil User Group. Its a great resource with a lot of good information and people doing interesting mods. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1336301079783114/

 

[airsick]

I have done about 4 batches with the mash and boil and basically getting about 74% efficiency


Using a corona mill
I start with 5 gallons of water and heat to 162
I mash in my grain (usually about 10.5 pounds) and reset temp to 151 (there is about a 3 degree difference between advertised temp and the actual temp in the grain sleeve)
I recirculate about a half gallon and stir about every 15 minutes
After about an hour at temp, I sparge with 3 gallons of water at 172 (I know it seems like a ton of water, but I've gone into the fermenter with about 5.75 gallons every time)... you are losing 3/4 a gallon of water in the bottom of the unit, loss to grain and boil off.

My thoughts- It's really not that good of a unit and I don't think modifying it is worth the trouble. I have a pump, but why bother. Just add more grain if needed, and recirculate with a pitcher. It just takes forever to get to temp. It is what it is... a $300 dollar starter unit. My advise is that if you have a BIAB setup to stick with it!

my next stop- https://www.ssbrewtech.com/pages/1-bbl-nano-brewhouse

 

[The_General]

This is a great thread. I think I'm going to grab one of these. Has anyone tried Kettle souring with the brewer's edge? Seems like it would be pretty easy with the sealed lid to pump out O2 and keep at about 110 for a couple of days. Then just crank up the heat and bring up to a boil when desired PH is met. Dying to make a Gose and this setup seems like it would make it relatively easy.

I’ve done a couple kettle soured Berliner Weisse using a yogurt starter. I had never made one without the M&B so I have no comparison but I set it at 105 and held it until the pH was in the low to mid 3s.

 

[Altered7151]

I did a separate post on this, but saw this thread and thought it would fit here too. I'm recirculating with the M&B unit, and finally decided I needed a center drain pipe to get better recirc like the robobrew/grainfather. Pretty simple mod and makes recirculation much more hands off, and brew day much smoother. Also getting about 82% efficiency.

 

[Dancy]

[QUOTE="my next stop- https://www.ssbrewtech.com/pages/1-bbl-nano-brewhouse[/QUOTE]

Hmmm... looking at the link, I'm wondering why you even bothered with this $300 unit?