Brewed first batch - few questions

[TomVA]

I just finished brewing my first ever batch of beer last night and everything went well! The 5 gallon batch is a Dry Stout (Beersmith, 13A) all grain brew-in-bag, pitched with Safale S-04 yeast. As a retired chemist I managed to nailed all the temperatures, specific gravities, and volumes called for in the recipe except it yielded 5.2 gallons instead of 5.0 (should have boiled more vigorously). It was fermenting (bubbling) by this morning and is now sitting in a closet at 68°F with a bubble every 1.5 seconds (I can move it to the cellar at 64°F if that is better). I do, however, have a few beginner's questions I'm hoping you can help me with.

I like my stouts with a touch of sweetness, more like a Murphy's Stout as opposed to a Guinness. This recipe is called "Dry Stout". If I add a bit more corn sugar before bottling than the recipe calls for, will this sweeten the brew or just raise the alcohol or carbonation?

The recipe says to do the primary fermentation for 4 days and the secondary fermentation for 10 days. Problem is I completely forgot I am going to Florida for Thanksgiving on the 22nd, just 11 days after brewing. So my choices are to just do a primary fermentation for 10 days and bottle the day before leaving, or do the primary for 4 days per recipe but extend the secondary to 14 days so I can bottle when I return. Would there be any significant difference in quality between the two choices? I can't say I have a refined palate (yet).

Also, if I choose to do a secondary fermentation, can I use my bottling bucket for this fermentation, that is, rack the brew from the fermentation bucket into the bottling bucket, let it sit for the 14 days, and then bottle directly from the same bucket after adding the corn sugar? I realize adding the sugar means stirring which will raise any trub that will then need to resettle. There shouldn't be much as I poured the cooled wort through a fine strainer into the fermentation bucket. I don't have a secondary fermentation carboy although I suppose I can buy one.

And finally, should the hot hydrometer readings be corrected to 60°F, 65°F, or 68°F? - I have been told all three and the instructions are silent on this.

Thanks so much for your patience and help!

TomVA

 

[C-Rider]

1-68* is a bit warm as the fermentation process creates heat also. Moving it can't hurt.
2-If you add to much sugar at bottling time you will create BOTTLE BOMBS. Don't do it. Just enjoy what you brewed and next time change the recipe and process for a sweeter stout.
3-It's a stout and no need to secondary reguardless of what the instructions say. I'd leave it in the primary for at least 3-4 weeks to insure it's done and the yeast have a chance to "clean" things up.
4 -correction depends on the Hydrometer instructions. I'd pick 65* and not worry to much as you'll only see a point or two difference anyway.

Congratulations on jumping in and doing an All Grain right off the bat. Pretty soon you'll be creating your own recipies and enjoying "YOUR" beer more.

 

[nobadays]

+1 on C-Rider... good advice!

Earlier this year switched myself to eBIAB after building a complete system... love it! With your background you will do well in this obsession, errr I mean hobby!

Don

 

[IslandLizard]

1-68* is a bit warm as the fermentation process creates heat also. Moving it can't hurt.
2-If you add to much sugar at bottling time you will create BOTTLE BOMBS. Don't do it. Just enjoy what you brewed and next time change the recipe and process for a sweeter stout.
3-It's a stout and no need to secondary reguardless of what the instructions say. I'd leave it in the primary for at least 3-4 weeks to insure it's done and the yeast have a chance to "clean" things up.
4 -correction depends on the Hydrometer instructions. I'd pick 65* and not worry to much as you'll only see a point or two difference anyway.

Congratulations on jumping in and doing an All Grain right off the bat. Pretty soon you'll be creating your own recipies and enjoying "YOUR" beer more.

+1 to all of this ^
Congrats on your first beer, all-grain is the way!

Let me chime in on 3) a little. Secondaries are an advanced technique and it takes a bit of practice to learn how to do it correctly. Basically, buckets are never suitable for secondaries, some exceptions noted.

A dry stout will be likely done in 1-2 weeks at 65F. Letting it be for another week after it's done at a bit higher temps (~68-70F) is recommended. British ale yeasts tends to drop out fast, so prevent sudden temp drops after the first few days.

 

[TomVA]

Thanks all - great advice! I moved the bucket from the closet (air temp 68°F) to the cellar (air temp 63.5°F). I'll leave it there for about three weeks and bottle when I get back from Florida. This is a lot of fun!

I've noticed that the American stouts/porters that I have had seem to be more carbonated than their English and Irish draught counter parts. I prefer the latter style. Would shorting the corn sugar a bit at bottling reduce the carbonation?

Thanks again!

TomVA

 

[dallasdb]

When measuring the corn sugar, measure it by weight instead of volume.

After adding the corn sugar give stir it ever so gently so it is pretty uniform in the liquid. It will help the carbonation be more consistent.

Welcome to the addiction.

 

[PADave]

Your hydrometer should have the calibration temp marked on it. At the bottom of the scale, usually in real small print.

 

[RM-MN]

You wanted a malty stout instead of a dry stout but you chose a dry stout recipe. Adding sugar to the recipe will dry it out more, not make it sweeter. The sugar (corn sugar or table sugar) will completely ferment out unlike the malt sugars in your wort which are a mixtrure of less fermentable sugars. If you want to make a sweet stout, you need to choose a different recipe, perhaps one with more Crystal or caramel malts as these have unfermentable sugars.

For your next batch of beer, start the ferment in the basement. Bring the temperature of the wort to the basement temp before pitching the yeast. It will delay the start of fermentation but you get better tasting beer as higher temperatures cause the yeast to create off flavors. Even better would be to set your fermenter in a tub of cool water to help manage the temperature of the fermenting beer. You then can add some ice or frozen bottles of water to help keep the temp where you want it.

Secondaries in home brewing are a hold-over from commercial breweries where the large vessels and huge yeast cakes can lead to yeast autolysis. You won't have that problem until you get into the multiple barrel fermenters so just skip the secondary.

If you want an exact hydrometer reading you take the sample at the temperature your hydrometer is calibrated at. I usually just use the hydrometer to make sure the fermentation is complete so 2 readings at least 2 days apart that are the same with the beer being a constant temperature is good enough for me. I also don't like a lot of yeast sediment in my bottles of beer so I leave the beer in the fermenter to allow more time for the yeast to settle out. Your beer will probably be ready to bottle in less than 10 days but you will get a healthy layer of yeast in the bottle from that. I leave mine for 3 to 4 weeks and get much less settled yeast. Being that you are brewing a stout, I find that the flavors of the stouts take longer to 'come together" so longer in the fermenter helps that out. Most of the time (since I have a large supply already on hand) I leave the stouts in the bottles for 6 months or more before I start drinking them. YMMV

Trub in your fermenter is no problem. Just forget the strainer and dump everything in. The hops and break material will settle out when the fermentation is over and get covered by the yeast. You'll rack from above that to your bottling bucket so you will get minimal amount transferred and that will quickly settle out so it stays in the bucket.

You as the brewer get to choose the carbonation level you want. Here's a priming calculator to help you choose how much sugar to add to get the amount of carbonation. http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html

 

[flars]

I just finished brewing my first ever batch of beer last night and everything went well! The 5 gallon batch is a Dry Stout (Beersmith, 13A) all grain brew-in-bag, pitched with Safale S-04 yeast. As a retired chemist I managed to nailed all the temperatures, specific gravities, and volumes called for in the recipe except it yielded 5.2 gallons instead of 5.0 (should have boiled more vigorously). It was fermenting (bubbling) by this morning and is now sitting in a closet at 68°F with a bubble every 1.5 seconds (I can move it to the cellar at 64°F if that is better). I do, however, have a few beginner's questions I'm hoping you can help me with.

I like my stouts with a touch of sweetness, more like a Murphy's Stout as opposed to a Guinness. This recipe is called "Dry Stout". If I add a bit more corn sugar before bottling than the recipe calls for, will this sweeten the brew or just raise the alcohol or carbonation?

The recipe says to do the primary fermentation for 4 days and the secondary fermentation for 10 days. Problem is I completely forgot I am going to Florida for Thanksgiving on the 22nd, just 11 days after brewing. So my choices are to just do a primary fermentation for 10 days and bottle the day before leaving, or do the primary for 4 days per recipe but extend the secondary to 14 days so I can bottle when I return. Would there be any significant difference in quality between the two choices? I can't say I have a refined palate (yet).

Also, if I choose to do a secondary fermentation, can I use my bottling bucket for this fermentation, that is, rack the brew from the fermentation bucket into the bottling bucket, let it sit for the 14 days, and then bottle directly from the same bucket after adding the corn sugar? I realize adding the sugar means stirring which will raise any trub that will then need to resettle. There shouldn't be much as I poured the cooled wort through a fine strainer into the fermentation bucket. I don't have a secondary fermentation carboy although I suppose I can buy one.

And finally, should the hot hydrometer readings be corrected to 60°F, 65°F, or 68°F? - I have been told all three and the instructions are silent on this.

Thanks so much for your patience and help!

TomVA

BeerSmith defaults to 4 days primary and 10 days secondary. You can change this to anything you want. I typically have my beer in the primary for three weeks with no secondary.

The bottling bucket as a secondary may have too much head space and surface area. This would be an oxidation risk.

Most hydrometers have the calibration temperature printed on the card inside the hydrometer. Most new hydrometers are calibrated for 60°F.

Danstar Windsor Ale yeast is a low attenuating yeast. FG could be around 1.016 to 1.019. This would result in a sweeter beer. Chance it might be too sweet though. A beer fermented with Windsor can be finished with an active pitch of US-05 or WY 1056 to take it down to a dry stout gravity of 1.011 to 1.012 if it is too sweet.

I would leave the beer in the primary and check the SG when you get back. Longer time in the primary will give you a clearer beer to bottle.

 

[TomVA]

Wow you guys are a sea of great information!

Just to be sure I am clear on the SG readings, my recipe called for a target pre-boil SG of 1.035. After mash out I took a reading (directly in the bucket) at 159°F of 1.018 and converted this to 60°F using an online SG Adjustment Calculator and got 1.039 @ 60°F (my hydrometer calibration temperature). Likewise I took a cooled wort reading in the bucket before pitching the yeast at 74°F and got 1.043, which converts to the recipe target of 1.044. Sound right?

Some more beginner questions. On bottling day when the fermentation is complete (three weeks in primary), I read the yeast will be on the bottom of the bucket and I will decant from above the yeast. This sounds like I will not be moving any yeast from the fermenter to the bottling bucket. If so, how will the primer sugar be fermented in the bottle to create carbonation? Obviously some yeast will move to the bottling bucket (soluble or suspended?), I'm just trying to understand the chemistry here.

Ambient temperature in my cellar is 62°F and the temperature strip on the side of the bucket is reading 64°F. This is right in the middle of the ideal range listed for Safale S-04 of 59-67°F, and she is still bubbling, albeit slower. I am smiling!

TomVA

 

[RM-MN]

Wow you guys are a sea of great information!

Just to be sure I am clear on the SG readings, my recipe called for a target pre-boil SG of 1.035. After mash out I took a reading (directly in the bucket) at 159°F of 1.018 and converted this to 60°F using an online SG Adjustment Calculator and got 1.039 @ 60°F (my hydrometer calibration temperature). Likewise I took a cooled wort reading in the bucket before pitching the yeast at 74°F and got 1.043, which converts to the recipe target of 1.044. Sound right?

Some more beginner questions. On bottling day when the fermentation is complete (three weeks in primary), I read the yeast will be on the bottom of the bucket and I will decant from above the yeast. This sounds like I will not be moving any yeast from the fermenter to the bottling bucket. If so, how will the primer sugar be fermented in the bottle to create carbonation? Obviously some yeast will move to the bottling bucket (soluble or suspended?), I'm just trying to understand the chemistry here.

Ambient temperature in my cellar is 62°F and the temperature strip on the side of the bucket is reading 64°F. This is right in the middle of the ideal range listed for Safale S-04 of 59-67°F, and she is still bubbling, albeit slower. I am smiling!

TomVA

On bottling day, somewhere between 10 days and 10 weeks in the fermenter, you will still have an abundance of yeast suspended in the beer to eat the priming sugar and carbonate the beer.

Soon your fermenter will stop bubbling, perhaps even by tomorrow. That means the yeast have eaten all the free sugars and will be working at eating the intermediate compounds which activity generates no CO2.

 

[PADave]

There will still be plenty of yeast in your beer to carbonate, even if you can't see them. Even more will settle out in the bottle.

 

[TomVA]

Oh, a couple more newby questions if I may impose. I have been reading that I can add some lactose or maltodextrin before bottling to sweeten the stout and add creaminess. I may try this for half the batch. Any downsides I should be aware of?

Also, when priming with corn sugar (and possibly adding lactose) I obviously must stir it into the batch before bottling. Doesn't this stir up the trub? How long should I let the batch settle again before bottling?

Thanks again guys!

TomVA

 

[PADave]

Also, when priming with corn sugar (and possibly adding lactose) I obviously must stir it into the batch before bottling. Doesn't this stir up the trub? How long should I let the batch settle again before bottling?

Thanks again guys!

TomVA

Boil your water and add the priming sugar. Then dump this into your bottling bucket first. Put your transfer tube so it reaches the bottom of the bottling bucket to reduce oxidation, no splashing, and to create a swirling motion. This will be plenty to mix the sugar. If you really want to mix more use a sanitized spoon to gently stir the beer. If your trying to bottle directly out of the fermenter, I'd use carb drops in each bottle. Much easier to get a bottling bucket if you don't already have one.

 

[martiniw2olives]

I like my stouts with a touch of sweetness, more like a Murphy's Stout as opposed to a Guinness. This recipe is called "Dry Stout". If I add a bit more corn sugar before bottling than the recipe calls for, will this sweeten the brew or just raise the alcohol or carbonation?

Most of the flavor is baked in at mash, that's where the magic happens. Next batch try mashing at a higher temp like 156 or so. That should help a bit.

Gongrats on your first batch. This hobby will own you now, your doomed

 

[TomVA]

Yes I do have a bottling bucket, so that will make mixing the sugar easier. Sorry, I should have known that.

My strike temperature was 165°F and this dropped to 157°F after adding the grains. I wrapped the S/S pot with towels and the temperature after one hour mashing was 150°F. I then raised the temperature to 168°F for 10 minutes before removing the grain bag.

I can see the addicting coming. I'm two days into my first batch and I am already planning my next two batches while lying in bed in the wee hours of the morning!

TomVA

 

[RM-MN]

Yes I do have a bottling bucket, so that will make mixing the sugar easier. Sorry, I should have known that.

My strike temperature was 165°F and this dropped to 157°F after adding the grains. I wrapped the S/S pot with towels and the temperature after one hour mashing was 150°F. I then raised the temperature to 168°F for 10 minutes before removing the grain bag.

I can see the addicting coming. I'm two days into my first batch and I am already planning my next two batches while lying in bed in the wee hours of the morning!

TomVA

How finely milled the grains are determines how quickly conversion occurs. If your grains were milled to the consistency of cornmeal the conversion happened nearly instantly and your mash temp was 157. Since conversion was done, raising the temp to 168 didn't change anything but it did risk melting the bag to the bottom of the pot. Raising the temp to 168 is only needed for fly sparging and since you weren't doing that it wasn't needed.

 

[jtratcliff]

As RM-MN said, no need to raise temps for mash out... The purpose of that is to denature the enzymes and stop conversion before sparging... Fly sparging can take a while, so if you don't mash out, conversion can keep going and change the nature of your wort before the sparge is finished.

But with BIAB, you pull the bag... Sparge over (unless you dunk, or pour over)... And then immediately start the boil... So continuing conversion isn't as much of an issue. And you're raising to boiling temps anyway.

 

[TomVA]

Good to know - thanks! I was curious what this step would do and read something about it making the sugars more fluid, so with the recipe calling for it I did it. I'll skip it in the future.

I inverted a large S/S colander in the bottom of the mash pot to keep the bag off the bottom and to spread the grains out, and to keep the bag from melting during heat up for mash out.

Thanks for all your helpful advice! Great community here!

TomVA

 

[martiniw2olives]

But with BIAB, you pull the bag... Sparge over (unless you dunk, or pour over)...

I thought the point of BIAB is to avoid the sparge process.

 

[Sadu]

I thought the point of BIAB is to avoid the sparge process.

For some people sure, but not everyone. The point for me is that it requires less gear and the process is very flexible. And when you do add a sparge it is faster than a 3 vessel system and stuck runoff is a non issue.
My mesh bag is good for 1/ 5 / 10 gallon batches and I can either sparge or not depending if I have the time. The sparge gives me 15 points of extra efficiency so I usually consider it worth it. But its an optional extra step that one can safely skip if just starting out or if you don't mind a lower efficiency and higher pH.

 

[Savagejair]

First question- I'd say depending on length of fermentation it will increase co2 and just end up with potential bottle bombs. I am way late to this party but just know go on vacation leave it in the primary. Bottle when you come home. Next time you brew last ten minutes add lactose/ cold brewed coffee cut the flame an chill.

 

[RM-MN]

Good to know - thanks! I was curious what this step would do and read something about it making the sugars more fluid, so with the recipe calling for it I did it. I'll skip it in the future.

I inverted a large S/S colander in the bottom of the mash pot to keep the bag off the bottom and to spread the grains out, and to keep the bag from melting during heat up for mash out.

Thanks for all your helpful advice! Great community here!

TomVA

Now that you know you don't have to heat to mash-out you can skip the colander in the bottom. If you don't mind cleaning another vessel, put the colander in that right side up and set the bag of grains in there when it has quit or slowed draining, then pour some water into the bag of grains as a sparge. Return the collected wort to the main kettle and heat it up. I'll start heating the main kettle while I do the sparge step and it may come to a boil before I add the sparge wort.

Heating the mash from 157 to 168 doesn't change the fluidity of the sugar solution enough to notice.

 

[martiniw2olives]

For some people sure, but not everyone. The point for me is that it requires less gear and the process is very flexible. And when you do add a sparge it is faster than a 3 vessel system and stuck runoff is a non issue.
My mesh bag is good for 1/ 5 / 10 gallon batches and I can either sparge or not depending if I have the time. The sparge gives me 15 points of extra efficiency so I usually consider it worth it. But its an optional extra step that one can safely skip if just starting out or if you don't mind a lower efficiency and higher pH.

Good input. I just migrated from years of conventional stovetop AG brewing (Mash using water cooler mash tun, batch sparge, etc.) to Brewha BIAC electric system. My instincts says to sparge for the reason you mentioned. How much water should one reserve for BIAC/BIAB? I read 1-2 quarts per pound. seams like a wide range.

 

[jtratcliff]

How much water should one reserve for BIAC/BIAB? I read 1-2 quarts per pound. seams like a wide range.

I typically mash with 2-2.5 qts/lb depending on the size of my grain bill.

I do 6 gal batches using BIAB with a dunk sparge... I aim for 6.5 gallons in the fermenter, and need to allow for 1 gallon boil off and 0.5 gal other kettle losses. So, I like to start with ~8 gallons of wort in the boil kettle.

I do ~7 gallons in the main BIAB mash, then 1.5-2 gallons in a smaller kettle for a dunk sparge... My small kettle is the limiting factor and can only hold so much grain and water, so I tweak my volumes to make it work. Usually results in 2+-ish qts/lb.

I use Brewtarget's Mash Wizard and it usually gets my volumes just right.

 

[RM-MN]

Good input. I just migrated from years of conventional stovetop AG brewing (Mash using water cooler mash tun, batch sparge, etc.) to Brewha BIAC electric system. My instincts says to sparge for the reason you mentioned. How much water should one reserve for BIAC/BIAB? I read 1-2 quarts per pound. seams like a wide range.

The reason for the wide range is because it works. The more water you put through the grain when the mash is over the more sugars you can rinse out....but there is the law of diminishing returns to deal with. The more you rinse, the less sugar comes out per unit of water and that excess water has to be dealt with, usually by boiling off so you trade excess sparge for long boil time.

 

[TomVA]

My largest mash kettle is an 8 gallon S/S stock pot. This recipe called for using the full amount of water for the mashing, 6.8 gallons, which when heated to mash temperature is 7 gallons. This does not leave much head space for adding the 9 lbs of grains, so I split the mash into two pots with proportional water and grain mix. After removing the grain bag I was able to combine all of the wort into the 8 gallon pot for boiling. I placed the grain bag in another pot on top of a colander to drain some more while I heated the wort.

I read somewhere that when bag brewing, the full amount of water should be used as opposed to the concentrate mashing usually done without a bag. I don't understand the reasoning for this, perhaps because the grains are in a big lump and have less water circulation. I'm sure I could get away with a bit less than the full water amount for the mash.

Next batch I plan to use 6 gallons of water in the large pot and reserve a gallon of hot water in a small pot. This will allow me enough head space to add the grains and do the mashing in just the one large pot. After removing the grain bag I'll pour the reserved hot water through the grain bag into the wort in the mash kettle - sort of a quick sparge. Then continue draining the sparged grain bag in the smaller pot while I heat the wort to boil.

When boiling the hops on this first batch, the water in the 8 gallon pot would periodically erupt like a small volcano. I suspect the water at the bottom of the pot was super-heated, perhaps do to the increased pressure, and any disturbance would cause rapid boil. Having worked in chemistry labs, we used boiling chips to prevent this and provide a nice steady rolling boil. Has anyone tried this with beer?

TomVA

 

[RM-MN]

My largest mash kettle is an 8 gallon S/S stock pot. This recipe called for using the full amount of water for the mashing, 6.8 gallons, which when heated to mash temperature is 7 gallons. This does not leave much head space for adding the 9 lbs of grains, so I split the mash into two pots with proportional water and grain mix. After removing the grain bag I was able to combine all of the wort into the 8 gallon pot for boiling. I placed the grain bag in another pot on top of a colander to drain some more while I heated the wort.

I read somewhere that when bag brewing, the full amount of water should be used as opposed to the concentrate mashing usually done without a bag. I don't understand the reasoning for this, perhaps because the grains are in a big lump and have less water circulation. I'm sure I could get away with a bit less than the full water amount for the mash.

Next batch I plan to use 6 gallons of water in the large pot and reserve a gallon of hot water in a small pot. This will allow me enough head space to add the grains and do the mashing in just the one large pot. After removing the grain bag I'll pour the reserved hot water through the grain bag into the wort in the mash kettle - sort of a quick sparge. Then continue draining the sparged grain bag in the smaller pot while I heat the wort to boil.

When boiling the hops on this first batch, the water in the 8 gallon pot would periodically erupt like a small volcano. I suspect the water at the bottom of the pot was super-heated, perhaps do to the increased pressure, and any disturbance would cause rapid boil. Having worked in chemistry labs, we used boiling chips to prevent this and provide a nice steady rolling boil. Has anyone tried this with beer?

TomVA

This is the absolute easiest way to mash...if your pot is big enough for the full volume. One pot, one bag, one time stirring the grains. Let it set, pull the bag to drain, and start heating the wort to boil. Unfortunately some of us have smaller pots and then we can't do the full volume so we utilize another pot to do some kind of sparge....and for that inconvenience of having another pot to wash, we gain 5 to 10% efficiency.

I've begun keeping the wort from the sparge out of the main pot until after the boil starts. The foam produced will nearly top my pot if I have the full volume in it but by keeping back a bit, I can manage the boil better. Then I add the held back wort and wait for the pot to start boiling again where I get a second flush of foam but much smaller.