Brewbuilt X3 opinions/reviews or suggested upgrade?

[Art2019]

I have been extract brewing for over 10 yrs. Started with a couple of 5 gallon buckets & upgraded to a 7 gal conical for fermenting. When I chill wort for pitching, I dump wort in my 5 gal bucket & put about 7 lbs of ice in it until it reaches about 80 degrees, then pour that in my conical and fill rest with cold water up to about the 5.5-6 gal mark. Then add yeast when temp is right. Then after everything's still from fermentation I empty the trub & repeat until brew is "almost" clear (as clear as i can get it). Well, you all know the process.
Now, I feel the need to upgrade from my conical since my brews virtually have the same flavor regardless of what I brew.

Over time, I've been looking at various fermenters & came across Brewbuilt X3 the other day. It seems pretty robust & may produce a nice clean brew with less mess. I just noticed it chills with glycol, meaning I'll need to get a glycol chiller?? Or could I just pour wort in fermenter & ice it like I have been doing in past.

I'm asking if anyone here that actually use this fermenter & your thoughts about it. I also would appreciate any input for other options if this may be overkill for 5 gal extract brews. Would this really make a difference in flavor and body of my brew?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Zanatrik]

If I am understanding your process correctly, your process would be the thing I would focus on before buying more equipment. It sounds like all that ice and water are likely watering down your beer significantly.

That said, the main advantage to the X3 is that its a jacketed conical, meaning you pump chilled glycol mix into a cavity that surrounds the fermentation vessel for temperature control. If you went this route, Im not sure it would make sense to buy an X3 if you arent also planning to buy a glycol chiller as well. If you were to add that and a chiller, you would likely see results as you wouldn't be watering down your wort, but you could accomplish that much more cheaply with a wort chiller (jaded hydra or spike counterflow are examples) or even doing what some do and dump hot wort into your fermenter and let it cool overnight until its ready to pitch.

 

[Art2019]

If I am understanding your process correctly, your process would be the thing I would focus on before buying more equipment. It sounds like all that ice and water are likely watering down your beer significantly.

That said, the main advantage to the X3 is that its a jacketed conical, meaning you pump chilled glycol mix into a cavity that surrounds the fermentation vessel for temperature control. If you went this route, Im not sure it would make sense to buy an X3 if you arent also planning to buy a glycol chiller as well. If you were to add that and a chiller, you would likely see results as you wouldn't be watering down your wort, but you could accomplish that much more cheaply with a wort chiller (jaded hydra or spike counterflow are examples) or even doing what some do and dump hot wort into your fermenter and let it cool overnight until its ready to pitch.

Well, my extracts are for 5 gallons. So, I work with 2.5-3 gallons to create the wort with some evaporation anticipated. After all is done, I poor wort into a bucket with Ice to make up the difference which is 5-5.5 gal (not 5.5 to 6). How would an extra half gallon of water be too much on the finished product? About half gallon is wasted already removing the trub. I used to go straight from recipe by making the 5 gallons and always ended up short when kegging.

 

[Zanatrik]

my brews virtually have the same flavor regardless of what I brew.

I could certainly be wrong, but when I read this part of your original post, I feel like there must be something in your process that must be off and I don't suspect the fermenter would change that as much as you hope. Not to mention that fermenter comes at no small cost.

 

[Art2019]

I could certainly be wrong, but when I read this part of your original post, I feel like there must be something in your process that must be off and I don't suspect the fermenter would change that as much as you hope. Not to mention that fermenter comes at no small cost.

 

[Art2019]

What proccess is off?
I was trying to be brief since there's not many steps in brewing. Steep grain for 20 mins @170 in 2.5 gals of water & discard, start boil for hour & add hops, malt or syrup, and cool down. After wort is ready, pour in bucket of ice to desired temp for pitching. What am I missing??

 

[Deadalus]

If you add 0.5 gallons of water to a 5 gallon recipe you will be watering it down by 10%. You can build your recipe properly for all losses with most if not all brewing software. A common approach for people who keg is to use a base 5.5 gallon recipe assuming they are going to lose some wort/beer to trub and to racking and that it will be about 1/2 gallon.

How much commanlity is there between your recipes? What styles do you brew? Changing the ingredients, including the yeast, should create diffferent beers. A conical isn't going to radically change a great many beer styles. If you have a unitank you can pressure ferment, that's a big change.

Do you use temperature control at all, brew any lagers?

It's not your fermenter, I've brewed in buckets and carboys for a long time and can produce a wide variety of different tasting beers. Hops, grains, and yeast are what make them different right off the bat. A well regulated process, including the equipment, fine tunes all that.

 

[mac_1103]

my brews virtually have the same flavor regardless of what I brew.

when I read this part of your original post, I feel like there must be something in your process that must be off

When I read that part of the original post I just wondered what it meant. Do the beers all taste generic no matter what the recipe? Do they all have the same off flavor, and if so, what is the off flavor? Something else completely?

 

[Art2019]

If you add 0.5 gallons of water to a 5 gallon recipe you will be watering it down by 10%. You can build your recipe properly for all losses with most if not all brewing software. A common approach for people who keg is to use a base 5.5 gallon recipe assuming they are going to lose some wort/beer to trub and to racking and that it will be about 1/2 gallon.

How much commanlity is there between your recipes? What styles do you brew? Changing the ingredients, including the yeast, should create diffferent beers. A conical isn't going to radically change a great many beer styles. If you have a unitank you can pressure ferment, that's a big change.

Do you use temperature control at all, brew any lagers?

It's not your fermenter, I've brewed in buckets and carboys for a long time and can produce a wide variety of different tasting beers. Hops, grains, and yeast are what make them different right off the bat. A well regulated process, including the equipment, fine tunes all that.

Makes sense on watering down.
All I've been making are 5 gal extracts and most are ales, some dark & some blonde from Northern Brewer. I've done 2 lagers over 10 yrs but never turned out well. I use 05 & 06 mostly, except for the lagers which I used W-34/70.

I have no temperatire control, except when I'm pitching & use whatever the temp is in the room, usually 75-80 degrees. What dom you use for temp control?

After walking this through, maybe it is just my process. Any suggestions? I'm going to brew next week so I'll try a different methodology.

 

[mac_1103]

I have no temperatire control, except when I'm pitching & use whatever the temp is in the room, usually 75-80 degrees.

The temperature in the middle of a five gallon fermenter can be 10 degrees higher than ambient temperature. So if the room is 75F then you're probably fermenting too warm for most yeast strains which can definitely cause some off flavors. You could try a DIY temperature control solution like a swamp cooler to see if it helps before you shell out big bucks for a jacketed fermenter and glycol chiller. Or maybe look into a fermentation chamber instead? Or try a batch with a kveik yeast.

I use 05 & 06 mostly, except for the lagers which I used W-34/70.

Fermentis recommends 64.4-78.8°F for US-05 and WB-06, and 53.6-64.4°F for W-34/70.

 

[Art2019]

The temperature in the middle of a five gallon fermenter can be 10 degrees higher than ambient temperature. So if the room is 75F then you're probably fermenting too warm for most yeast strains which can definitely cause some off flavors. You could try a DIY temperature control solution like a swamp cooler to see if it helps before you shell out big bucks for a jacketed fermenter and glycol chiller. Or maybe look into a fermentation chamber instead? Or try a batch with a kveik yeast.

Fermentis recommends 64.4-78.8°F for US-05 and WB-06, and 53.6-64.4°F for W-34/70.

Just tested my hard cicer with Red Star Premier Blanc & it shows same temp in house which is 74 now. This thing's going crazy after 3 days. It's not warmer in center.

 

[Deadalus]

Temperature control is a great improvement in the brewing process. I highly recommend a ferm chamber of some sort. A used kegerator willl cost you a little more than a minifridge but you wouldn't have issues with the freezer compartment. A small upright freezer is another option, but those tend to cost a little extra too. I'd consider something larger as you could put a conical inside the right size fridge. It's considered to be a suitable option. I tend to ferment ales 68-72. As you go higher than that, different flavors can come out, some desirable, some not. I like to get my recipe's ingredients down first, then I may experiment with different temperatures. I currently have a glycol chiller but previously used minifridges, one is a wine chiller actually. They are hooked up to inkbirds and I use thermowell stoppers on my carboys and a thermowell in my fermentation bucket. My unitanks have cooling coils and are on the glycol chiller. I also have one cooling coil for my carboy but I would suggest a jacketed wrap if you want to cool a carboy with a glycol chiller.

Lagers are tougher to temperature control without a ferm chamber or glycol chiller. You have to stay on top of the temperature regularly and using ice for instance may not be steady if you're not home.

Another way to get to some variety is to partial mash. Some extract and smaller amounts of base grain and specialty grain. It doesn't seem popular, never did seem to, but I know one guy that brew good beers that way. You could go for an All in One, cheaper than a conical too. What's you're reasoning as far as sticking to extract brewing? The guy I know doesn't want to spend too much time brewing.

 

[Bobby_M]

There would be no practical benefit to upgrading to the X3 conical unless you also buy/build a glycol chiller for the temp control and get a CO2 tank to make use of oxygen free pressure transfers.

 

[Bobby_M]

I have no temperatire control, except when I'm pitching & use whatever the temp is in the room, usually 75-80 degrees. What dom you use for temp control?

Being stuck with whatever the room temp happens to be isn't the worst thing you can do for your beer, but it's definitely not ideal. Most yeast will throw fusel alcohols and high esters at temps over 70F (in the core of the fermenter, not room temp)

 

[mac_1103]

it shows same temp in house which is 74 now. This thing's going crazy after 3 days. It's not warmer in center

So you're saying that you've got a thermowell and the temperature in the middle of the fermenter at the peak of fermentation is the same as the air temperature of the room? One of your thermometers is wrong.

 

[Art2019]

Temperature control is a great improvement in the brewing process. I highly recommend a ferm chamber of some sort. A used kegerator willl cost you a little more than a minifridge but you wouldn't have issues with the freezer compartment. A small upright freezer is another option, but those tend to cost a little extra too. I'd consider something larger as you could put a conical inside the right size fridge. It's considered to be a suitable option. I tend to ferment ales 68-72. As you go higher than that, different flavors can come out, some desirable, some not. I like to get my recipe's ingredients down first, then I may experiment with different temperatures. I currently have a glycol chiller but previously used minifridges, one is a wine chiller actually. They are hooked up to inkbirds and I use thermowell stoppers on my carboys and a thermowell in my fermentation bucket. My unitanks have cooling coils and are on the glycol chiller. I also have one cooling coil for my carboy but I would suggest a jacketed wrap if you want to cool a carboy with a glycol chiller.

Lagers are tougher to temperature control without a ferm chamber or glycol chiller. You have to stay on top of the temperature regularly and using ice for instance may not be steady if you're not home.

Another way to get to some variety is to partial mash. Some extract and smaller amounts of base grain and specialty grain. It doesn't seem popular, never did seem to, but I know one guy that brew good beers that way. You could go for an All in One, cheaper than a conical too. What's you're reasoning as far as sticking to extract brewing? The guy I know doesn't want to spend too much time brewing.

Thanks for your input. My brews don't have that pristine flavor I prefer, they have an "off" flavor, don't know why & originally thought is was my conical or way I'm brewing. This is why I started thinking about a better fermenter like X3, but didn't think too much of glycol chiller seems rather expensive.
I started with extract brewing & just stuck with it. I've read up on the 2 processes and it basically came down to what one's preference is. One isn't better than the other but some would disgree. All grain just seems like a longer, more tedious process for the result derived.

 

[Art2019]

So you're saying that you've got a thermowell and the temperature in the middle of the fermenter at the peak of fermentation is the same as the air temperature of the room? One of you thermometers is wrong.

No, I dipped my candy thermometer in the brew & also a digital thermometer. Both checked out.

 

[mac_1103]

Most yeast will throw fusel alcohols and high esters at temps over 70F (in the core of the fermenter, not room temp)

He's trying to say that it really sounds like your off flavor is a result of fermenting too warm.

No, I dipped my candy thermometer in the brew & also a digital thermometer. Both checked out.

First of all, opening your fermenter is a bad idea in general. Second, it's basically impossible for the temperature in the middle of five gallons of actively fermenting beer to be the same as ambient temperature unless you're using some kind of temperature control. Before fermentation really gets going? Sure. After fermentation has slowed down? Yep. But in the middle of the most active part of fermentation? No way. Fermentation generates heat. Lots of heat. The temperature of the beer in the fermenter cannot equilibrate with the temperature of the air surrounding it instantaneously.

 

[Art2019]

He's trying to say that it really sounds like your off flavor is a result of fermenting too warm.

First of all, opening your fermenter is a bad idea in general. Second, it's basically impossible for the temperature in the middle of five gallons of actively fermenting beer to be the same as ambient temperature unless you're using some kind of temperature control. Before fermentation really gets going? Sure. After fermentation has slowed down? Yep. But in the middle of the most active part of fermentation? No way. Fermentation generates heat. Lots of heat. The temperature of the beer in the fermenter cannot equilibrate with the temperature of the air surrounding it instantaneously.

Well, I measured temp & it was 74 & can't help it if it wasn't 10 degrees warmer during active fermemt. After 4 days, it's moving but slowing down.
When I remove the trub, I open my fermenter to add back liquid from spent yeast so there isn't too much loss of volume & most of the heavy trub is discarded. If I empty out the trub ball in its entirey, I'll only have 4.5 gal of brew remaining at time of transfer, so I guess everyone here who does a perfect brew starts with 5 gal & is ok for the half gallon loss? Just curious about how you treat with a plastic conical if it's taboo to open top during fermemting process.

 

[Art2019]

When I read that part of the original post I just wondered what it meant. Do the beers all taste generic no matter what the recipe? Do they all have the same off flavor, and if so, what is the off flavor? Something else completely?

Can't adequately explain it. Flavors are a bit of bland but a little bitter from hops if comparing to a store bought brew. For instance, I did a Blue Moon clone once. Tasted nothing like it but I still got a buzz from the brew.

 

[mac_1103]

Adjust the recipe to start with enough wort to account for the losses. Or just accept the losses (if brewing with kits for example).

 

[Bobby_M]

Losses are a part of brewing. If you top off with water anyway, just start with 5.5 prefermentation rather than adding water later.

 

[tracer bullet]

I'll never say you can't make a good beer with extract, but - I think that using extract, and adding a lot of water later, is simply not going to be as good as doing all-grain. I know my beer got a lot better when I finally switched. Not easy, or perhaps not possible in this case, but consider it.

I also think oxygen free transfers were a huge improvement for me, and fermentation temp control maybe 3rd place after 1) the move to all-grain and 2) learning how damaging O2 can be and working to prevent it. If the beers all taste the same they might be heavily oxidized. This would be a suggested focus in addition to any temp control. A new fermenter might make O2 free transfers easier but I'm sure it could be done with the current equipment as well.

This might be a case where - it isn't a question of what new fermenter to get on the assumption the current one is a problem. It might be a question more of solving the taste issue, and then which fermenter to get if that's what's needed (it might not be needed).

 

[Rich1234]

Couple of thoughts..

Count me in with the group pointing to too warm fermentation temps.

Do you have a basement you can ferment in? My basement never gets above 70 deg F. I pressure ferment with 34/70 at these temps and produce good beer. I wouldn't ferment anything (short of a kveik yeast) above 70 deg F. Pressure or not.

Also, if you have an extra mini fridge laying around, I believe you could make a setup to pump cold water through that fermenter to get you down to an acceptable ale (or pressurized) fermentation temp. I haven't tried this but seems like it would work. Think I've read about this somewhere..? Then you could decide from there whether or not to buy an actual chiller.

I don't like adding ice to your wort. You're adding a potential for contamination with this step. I'd consider an alternative method for chilling. Also, keep an eye on your specific gravity. That's more important than adding water to end up with a target amount of wort. Your consistency will improve.

Rich

 

[mac_1103]

I don't like adding ice to your wort. You're adding a potential for contamination with this step.

Tap water or ice can be a source of either contamination or chlorine, but there's nothing wrong with topping off extract brews with chilled water if you take steps to remove bacteria and chlorine (of course, the chlorine is there to control bacteria, so there's that). Anyway, you can boil the water ahead of time and chill it in sanitized gallon jugs. You can even make ice with it in sanitized wide-mouth containers (e.g., large yogurt or cottage cheese tubs).

 

[Art2019]

I'll never say you can't make a good beer with extract, but - I think that using extract, and adding a lot of water later, is simply not going to be as good as doing all-grain. I know my beer got a lot better when I finally switched. Not easy, or perhaps not possible in this case, but consider it.

I also think oxygen free transfers were a huge improvement for me, and fermentation temp control maybe 3rd place after 1) the move to all-grain and 2) learning how damaging O2 can be and working to prevent it. If the beers all taste the same they might be heavily oxidized. This would be a suggested focus in addition to any temp control. A new fermenter might make O2 free transfers easier but I'm sure it could be done with the current equipment as well.

This might be a case where - it isn't a question of what new fermenter to get on the assumption the current one is a problem. It might be a question more of solving the taste issue, and then which fermenter to get if that's what's needed (it might not be needed).

I top off fermenter to 5.5 gals before pitching & don't mess with it later. I've always had issues with off flavors & thought it was due to evaporation during fermation & discarding trub which is why I started the increased volume at beginning. I really didn't think a half gal would make much of a difference, until now (thanks to all input, btw).

I'm thinking most in here are an all grain believer. I do want to learn all grain, but think I need to improve/correct my extract brewing process, 1st. Don't want to carry over bad habits, which I'm discovering is my main problem from reading these comments. I read one homebrewer article that all grain vs extract is solely a homebrewer'preference but I'm ready to cross that bridge just to gain knowlege base of another method.

From one homebrew article:
"...extract brewing can still produce good beer, and some say that the outcome of the two methods can be so similar that it's a matter of personal preference. For example, extract brewers can control fermentability by adding sugar or malto-dextrin, or by steeping grains."

 

[mac_1103]

I top off fermenter to 5.5 gals before pitching & don't mess with it later.

Then why are you opening the fermenter and what are you adding back after you dump trub? I don't have a conical so maybe someone who does can advise you on how to dump without losing a gallon of beer.

When I remove the trub, I open my fermenter to add back liquid from spent yeast so there isn't too much loss of volume & most of the heavy trub is discarded. If I empty out the trub ball in its entirey, I'll only have 4.5 gal of brew remaining at time of transfer

 

[Art2019]

Tap water or ice can be a source of either contamination or chlorine, but there's nothing wrong with topping off extract brews with chilled water if you take steps to remove bacteria and chlorine (of course, the chlorine is there to control bacteria, so there's that). Anyway, you can boil the water ahead of time and chill it in sanitized gallon jugs. You can even make ice with it in sanitized wide-mouth containers (e.g., large yogurt or cottage cheese tubs).

I'm on a well with no chorine and use ice from my freezer. Guess I could boil the tap water & chill for later but bacteria could still enter water after it's cooled. I do have a 5 gal carboy which i can use. Maybe is mostly bacteria causing this issue. I'll try all suggestions in here. Thanks

 

[Art2019]

Then why are you opening the fermenter and what are you adding back after you dump trub? I don't have a conical so maybe someone who does can advise you on how to dump without losing a gallon of beer.

The conical has a 5" screwtop lid with airlock. The trub ball has over a cup of liquid with trub on bottom so I pour (which includes removing lid) as much of the clear liquid back in conical as I can & discard trub.

 

[mac_1103]

Guess I could boil the tap water & chill for later but bacteria could still enter water after it's cooled.

That's why I said to chill it in sanitized containers. I use gallon juice or water jugs and StarSan.

The trub ball has over a cup of liquid with trub on bottom so I pour (which includes removing lid) as much of the clear liquid back in conical as I can & discard trub.

Please stop opening the fermenter. Every time you do you introduce oxygen. Maybe other bad stuff too.