Brew Pump Woes

[augiedoggy]

It seems as though there's two schools of thought on homebrewing - the "I'm right and you're not" and the "Wow, that's a pretty cool way to use something that it wasn't intended for to make brewing easier / better / more fun."

As long as the pump is working properly, I don't really see an issue here with warranty or otherwise. I was talking with another member of our brew club the other day and he said something that I totally agreed with - "I think I enjoy building up my brewery more than brewing itself sometimes." For me at least, there's some satisfaction in figuring something out, building it, and seeing it work in action to either make brewing easier, better, or more fun.

In this case, I think the pump in a toolbox is going to make brewing easier and more fun. Is it going to help me make better beer at the moment? Probably not until I figure out if I want to use this for mash re-circulation or to drive some kind of sparge setup.

I guess there are people who just want to buy everything from the store, read the instruction manual and follow the straight and narrow - and then there are those who have the ambition and vision to make things work better.

No your right,
But you didnt repurpose something into a wort pump Lets take the facts, you took a new pump and modified it to make it bigger and run hotter and also changed the clearance in the pump motor itself which caused problems and will likely shorten its life... Honestly, all I said was if anything this was "half assed" which it what you said you wanted to avoid.
I have done a lot of stuff in my build that I have taken criticism on and a few of those things I still feel I was right and a few I learned the hard way that some of that criticism was right or at least now I know what they meant. the fact is I am on a budget and can upgrade as my budget allows but I have found some amazing alternatives as well as how to appreciate some of my upgrades. I also try to share my experiences with others...I see a lot of limitations with these bigger pumps myself, at least with my setup.

I built an electric setup with low cost components like a $50 rims tube and a plastic control panel box and I even used some electric wire with an unknown insulation rating (larger gauge than needed) that one member swore would turn white and fall off the wire. (still no sign of this) I too enjoy building the system as much as brewing... I I'm waiting on three way valves now so I can have all my hoses/pumps ran between HLT MT and BK without having to move or disconnect anything during the brew process and I have recently "upgraded" my bazooka tube to a dual stage false bottom to see if my efficiency is effected. it never ends but I enjoy it.

 

[AnOldUR]

I guess there are people who just want to buy everything from the store, read the instruction manual and follow the straight and narrow - and then there are those who have the ambition and vision to make things work better.

Ambition and vision are not productive without talent and the ability to take constructive criticism without getting defensive.

 

[Owly055]

If your valve and dip tube inside the pot are 1/2", a 3/4" tube isn't going to help any. 3/4" would be awesome if everything before the pump was 3/4". That 3/4" stuff is pricey.

This is logical.......but wrong. Flow resistance is a function of flow, pipe diameter, and length. A short restriction has far less effect than a length of small diameter tubing. You can see this with ordinary garden hoses............ take three pieces of garden hose. two small diameter, and one large diameter. Hook both small diameter hoses up and time the flow into a bucket, then replace one section with large diameter hose, and you will immediately see the difference.

In this case we are talking about shorter lengths than the garden hose demo, but we are talking about a much more critical application....... pump suction.......... and hot liquid. ANY reduction in flow resistance helps.

The logical change here as I have said before is to connect the pump directly to the coupler at the kettle.....Make a support if necessary. Even a couple of wires from the handles on the kettle to the back of the pump..... a simple wire and hook setup would work fine.

I work with pumps all the time and I would NEVER choke the inlet down. The inlet hose or pipe is always considerably larger than the outlet. If the pump can't be right at the kettle, then put it as close as possible and use the largest line possible.

H.W.

 

[LandoLincoln]

The logical change here as I have said before is to connect the pump directly to the coupler at the kettle.....Make a support if necessary. Even a couple of wires from the handles on the kettle to the back of the pump..... a simple wire and hook setup would work fine.

Logical, but not practical as far as homebrewing goes. I'm not going to take my chugger pump and mount it on the front of my mash tun, and then dismount it and then remount it onto my boil kettle when it comes time to drain into the fermentors. If I had a commercial endeavor where getting the absolute best performance out of my pumps was important, sure, but as a hobbyist I'm just in not that big of a hurry. I can fill two fermentors in about 15 minutes and that's plenty fast for me.

 

[mattd2]

...The logical change here as I have said before is to connect the pump directly to the coupler at the kettle.....Make a support if necessary. Even a couple of wires from the handles on the kettle to the back of the pump..... a simple wire and hook setup would work fine.

I work with pumps all the time and I would NEVER choke the inlet down. The inlet hose or pipe is always considerably larger than the outlet. If the pump can't be right at the kettle, then put it as close as possible and use the largest line possible.

H.W.

One issue I see with connecting it direct to the kettle valve with a dip tube is you will end up with a vacuum lift for the last portion of the pumping out of the kettle (OP doesn't look to bad). This could cause more problems than a short section of 1/2" hose dropping the pump down and increasing the NPSHa.

 

[Owly055]

One issue I see with connecting it direct to the kettle valve with a dip tube is you will end up with a vacuum lift for the last portion of the pumping out of the kettle (OP doesn't look to bad). This could cause more problems than a short section of 1/2" hose dropping the pump down and increasing the NPSHa.

The idea that you are going to get a head pressure advantage by lowering the pump, while using a small diameter suction hose is simply wrong. When the dip tube, fittings, and hose are all below optimal size, there will be no gain at all. Come out of your pot with as many oversize fittings as possible and use oversize hose..... and you may gain a head pressure advantage. Use half inch or even three quarter inch line......... and any significant amount of it, and you quickly lose any head pressure advantage. This is especially true with half inch line.......flow resistance will cancel out any head pressure advantage almost instantly.

H.W.

 

[mattd2]

The idea that you are going to get a head pressure advantage by lowering the pump, while using a small diameter suction hose is simply wrong. When the dip tube, fittings, and hose are all below optimal size, there will be no gain at all. Come out of your pot with as many oversize fittings as possible and use oversize hose..... and you may gain a head pressure advantage. Use half inch or even three quarter inch line......... and any significant amount of it, and you quickly lose any head pressure advantage. This is especially true with half inch line.......flow resistance will cancel out any head pressure advantage almost instantly.

H.W.

How much head loss are you expecting from a short 1/2" hose at the flow rates in the typical setup?

 

[augiedoggy]

Logical, but not practical as far as homebrewing goes. I'm not going to take my chugger pump and mount it on the front of my mash tun, and then dismount it and then remount it onto my boil kettle when it comes time to drain into the fermentors. If I had a commercial endeavor where getting the absolute best performance out of my pumps was important, sure, but as a hobbyist I'm just in not that big of a hurry. I can fill two fermentors in about 15 minutes and that's plenty fast for me.

This is exactly one of my points for the argument for the smaller pumps.... mine are as easy as changing hoses.... of course now I don't have to remove or move any pumps (or hoses) during a brew session....
If I wanted more pumping flow I could easily upgrade to the 24v versions but I really have no need.

 

[AnOldUR]

 

[Natdavis777]

For what it's worth, my setup works like a champ without the pump hooked directly to the tun

Got a wicked recirc going on right now


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[DonnieZ]

Well, I'm happy to report that the pump toolbox worked without a hitch on brew day.

Used the pump setup to get my mash and sparge water from the kettle into the mash tun, to chill wort and move to fermenter, and to clean pretty much every piece of brew day equipment I have - I put some OxyClean Free in the kettle and fired it up. Put everything in from my spoon to the manifold. Recirculated the hot cleaning solution and then did a rinse cycle and it worked out great.

Nary an issue with siphon loss, cavitation, insufficient flow, or pump overheating.

Why didn't I add a pump long ago!!

 

[chisena]

Man, I can't believe I just wasted all that time reading a couple of little bitches arguing in a forum. Didn't really get much out of this. I'll continue tinkering with hose length and component elevations until I improve my flow.

 

[Natdavis777]

Man, I can't believe I just wasted all that time reading a couple of little bitches arguing in a forum. Didn't really get much out of this. I'll continue tinkering with hose length and component elevations until I improve my flow.

Scope out my pic a few posts up. Works like a champ. I think it's two 3' hoses and one 4' hose