Brew House efficiency measure

[Nubiwan]

I overshot my volume measurement doing my first BIAB on the weekend. My ground water was ubercold, so was toying with extra boiled water to adjust initial mash temps. Long story.

Can I still measure my brew house efficiency by taking the starting grain bill, final volume into the fermenter and resultant OG measurements?

In other words, measure efficiency as if my achieved volume was my plan? Though it clearly was a f$&k up.

If this is the case then, despite making a balls of my volumes, my efficiency in getting my lower ABV beer, were calculated at over 75%.

Bloody stuff tastes good in fermenter. Chalking it down to experience. Had a grand time. Going to do my second tomorrow.

 

[Oginme]

Efficiency (any measure) in brewing is the measure of the amount of potential sugars in the grist bill which made it to point 'x' (boil kettle/post boil/fermenter). Brew house efficiency specifically is the amount of those sugars which make it to the fermenter. Gravity is a measure of the concentration of those sugars but you cannot measure the amount of sugar without including the volume. You cannot separate the gravity from the volume collected to measure efficiency.

You can estimate what the efficiency might have been if you hit your expected volumes, but changing the volumes for your next brew causes a process change and the actual extraction of the sugars from the grains would change slightly in response to the reduction of water. In the end, depending upon your process it may not amount to much, but just be careful of the unintended results of such a change.

That said, if you hit your gravity with an extra amount of volume then you clearly exceeded your estimated brew house efficiency. Even if you came in a bit low, you might find that you hit your brew house efficiency with greater volume at a lesser gravity.

 

[Nubiwan]

While I am questioning this, could I have added DME or sugar, post boil to up my ABV? I assume this would only affect my Gravity correct?

How long could I sensibly boil for, in order to reduce my volume?

In the short time I had (during the boil) to garner some advice, the best one I read was to go with what I had, ferment, and see how it tastes.

 

[Nubiwan]

Efficiency (any measure) in brewing is the measure of the amount of potential sugars in the grist bill which made it to point 'x' (boil kettle/post boil/fermenter). Brew house efficiency specifically is the amount of those sugars which make it to the fermenter. Gravity is a measure of the concentration of those sugars but you cannot measure the amount of sugar without including the volume. You cannot separate the gravity from the volume collected to measure efficiency.

You can estimate what the efficiency might have been if you hit your expected volumes, but changing the volumes for your next brew causes a process change and the actual extraction of the sugars from the grains would change slightly in response to the reduction of water. In the end, depending upon your process it may not amount to much, but just be careful of the unintended results of such a change.

That said, if you hit your gravity with an extra amount of volume then you clearly exceeded your estimated brew house efficiency. Even if you came in a bit low, you might find that you hit your brew house efficiency with greater volume at a lesser gravity.

Thanks for that. I did not hit my expected OG from the boil, and it was then I realized I had not adjusted enough for my volume error.

It wasn't a case of me readying for future brews, rather trying to establish exactly what kind of efficiency I managed from my equipment, grain bill, despite my error in water volume.

If I plug my results here Brewhouse Efficiency Calculator - Brewer's Friend then can't I at least get an idea of my overall efficiency?

Not sure I am missing something in your response.

 

[Oginme]

While I am questioning this, could I have added DME or sugar, post boil to up my ABV? I assume this would only affect my Gravity correct?

How long could I sensibly boil for, in order to reduce my volume?

In the short time I had (during the boil) to garner some advice, the best one I read was to go with what I had, ferment, and see how it tastes.

Yes, you can always add some DME or LME to increase your volume. There are calculator on-line which will give you some idea on how much DME it would take to change the gravity.

You can always boil longer or shorter to adjust your ending volume. Be aware that once you add your hops, extending the boil will change the amount of bitterness you extract from them. For long boil times, this is not really an issue, but for short boil additions it can make a huge difference. I was making a Scottish ale this past fall and go to the end of the boil after adding a small amount of hops at 10 minutes. I had someone arrive to have her doe bred by one of my bucks and I just covered the kettle figuring that I did not want to have it cool down too much or get contaminated. I chilled it 40 minutes later and ended up with what could generously be called a 'Scottish Pale Ale'. It was certainly drinkable, just not what I was going for.

I typically aim for 90 minutes boils with my first hop additions going in at 60 minutes. If I am a little low or high on gravity, I can adjust the boil time to get back on target (the joys of over 250 brew sessions is you get to know your process well) and not have to worry about the resulting bitterness being off.

On your other question, yes you can plug in your actual results into a calculator to see just how well you did. It is helpful information as I view every brew as a learning experience to improve the next one.

 

[Nubiwan]

Yes, you can always add some DME or LME to increase your volume. There are calculator on-line which will give you some idea on how much DME it would take to change the gravity.

You can always boil longer or shorter to adjust your ending volume. Be aware that once you add your hops, extending the boil will change the amount of bitterness you extract from them. For long boil times, this is not really an issue, but for short boil additions it can make a huge difference. I was making a Scottish ale this past fall and go to the end of the boil after adding a small amount of hops at 10 minutes. I had someone arrive to have her doe bred by one of my bucks and I just covered the kettle figuring that I did not want to have it cool down too much or get contaminated. I chilled it 40 minutes later and ended up with what could generously be called a 'Scottish Pale Ale'. It was certainly drinkable, just not what I was going for.

I typically aim for 90 minutes boils with my first hop additions going in at 60 minutes. If I am a little low or high on gravity, I can adjust the boil time to get back on target (the joys of over 250 brew sessions is you get to know your process well) and not have to worry about the resulting bitterness being off.

On your other question, yes you can plug in your actual results into a calculator to see just how well you did. It is helpful information as I view every brew as a learning experience to improve the next one.

Breeding Bucks and Does? Where the hell you live? While I am hardly a big urbanite, I just figure everyone posting on here is a city dweller. Obvioulsy, incorrectly so.

40 minutes for that eh? How long is that actual marriage part?

 

[Oginme]

Yeah, it was a quickie! He was happy, the doe was happy, the owner was happy. No marriage, no 'a will call you in the morning' bits.

I am in the middle of no where in NH. I tell people that if they find my town on the map, they have wasted too much of their lives looking.

 

[jdudek]

If I plug my results here Brewhouse Efficiency Calculator - Brewer's Friend then can't I at least get an idea of my overall efficiency?

There's a whole thread somewhere on this forum about this particular calculator being quite a bit off. It does't take under account the moisture content of grain nor the mash volume once sugars are dissolve... and perhaps some other stuff. Sounds like little details but it undercalculates efficiency by a good 5-10% last time i tried it. I can't seem to find that thread, perhaps @doug293cz can pull it out?

You should check out the priceless biab calculator if you'r interested in accurate efficiency calculations. Doug referenced above also has a pretty good spreadsheet on a share somewhere.

 

[Oginme]

There's a whole thread somewhere on this forum about this particular calculator being quite a bit off. It does't take under account the moisture content of grain nor the mash volume once sugars are dissolve... and perhaps some other stuff. Sounds like little details but it undercalculates efficiency by a good 5-10% last time i tried it. I can't seem to find that thread, perhaps @doug293cz can pull it out?

You should check out the priceless biab calculator if you'r interested in accurate efficiency calculations. Doug referenced above also has a pretty good spreadsheet on a share somewhere.

I can only speak for the calculations in BeerSmith. There is an error related to the thermal expansion of water (shrinkage factor) which has yet to be addressed. This error will cause the mash efficiency to be off by exactly the value of the shrinkage factor. The program calculations for brew house efficiency, when checked long hand, take into account the moisture content. I did it many times leading up to the release of BS3.

 

[doug293cz]

There's a whole thread somewhere on this forum about this particular calculator being quite a bit off. It does't take under account the moisture content of grain nor the mash volume once sugars are dissolve... and perhaps some other stuff. Sounds like little details but it undercalculates efficiency by a good 5-10% last time i tried it. I can't seem to find that thread, perhaps @doug293cz can pull it out?

You should check out the priceless biab calculator if you'r interested in accurate efficiency calculations. Doug referenced above also has a pretty good spreadsheet on a share somewhere.

Yes, many efficiency calculators do not correct for the moisture content of the grain. This makes your efficiency look lower than it actually is. The issue of not accounting for the volume effect of extract (the sugars, etc.) content only happens when doing conversion efficiency calculations, and does not typically affect mash efficiency or brewhouse efficiency calculations. My spreadsheet rigorously corrects for all moisture effects, and doesn't make the volume error for conversion efficiency. You can find it here.

@pricelessbrewing 's calculator used to correct for moisture, but I believe that was taken out because it was getting to be too much trouble to explain why the calculator gave different results than other calculator. I'll have to see if I can confirm this.

Brew on

 

[Nubiwan]

Yes, many efficiency calculators do not correct for the moisture content of the grain. This makes your efficiency look lower than it actually is. The issue of not accounting for the volume effect of extract (the sugars, etc.) content only happens when doing conversion efficiency calculations, and does not typically affect mash efficiency or brewhouse efficiency calculations. My spreadsheet rigorously corrects for all moisture effects, and doesn't make the volume error for conversion efficiency. You can find it here.

@pricelessbrewing 's calculator used to correct for moisture, but I believe that was taken out because it was getting to be too much trouble to explain why the calculator gave different results than other calculator. I'll have to see if I can confirm this.

Brew on

Thanks for that Doug. Clicked the link to your spreadsheet. Not sure I know all the details of the editable values in there. In fact, I know I do not.

Does it auto fill some? Make assumptions on any?

I guess if the brewers friend calculator underestimates efficiency, and I scored 75% with what I had, then I could be reasonably pleased. I was rather using it as a measure for my gear, and to see where I was at with process, than to be very specific with a number. 75% makes me happy for my first go, despite actuallly making mistakes, recipe wise.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I just double checked again, and the brewersfriend standalong calculator is about 4-6% low for conversion efficiency, but the conversion efficiency in the brew session/brewlog for a mash complete log entry is correct. So if the BF standalone calculator gives you 90% conversion, you're likely ~95%. I've had a ticket for this to be corrected, and I'll bump it again.

The mash/kettle/brewhouse efficiencies should be correct.

@doug293cz I'm 90% sure my calculator still assumes 4% moisture content, but it's honestly so small it's not really worth caring about since it's approximately 6 fl oz for your standard recipe.