Brew Controller Will this wiring diagram work?

[newB_newyorker]

First of all I wanna quickly thank all the awesome experts on this forum. I've been lurking around off and on for a few years now gleaning information from the amazing contributions here and it's greatly appreciated.

So I essentially have 4 questions...

1. Will my wiring schematic work?
2. Is it safe?
3. Is there a smarter option for manually controlling the boil?
4. Should I include inline fuses to protect the PID?

I am by no means an electrical expert but Ive wired quite a few electrical DIY projects in the past and I am confident I can build this safely with a little guidance from all of you here.

Background info

I am essentially attempting to build a similar e-kettle setup like the one featured here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=131411&highlight=heat+stick

I have already purchased a 120v 2000 Watt Boilcoil as my heat source and before I buy the rest of the components I would like to run this by you folks. The circuit is pretty straightforward all in all but I wanted to include a manual control to tame the element during the boil which is why I included the Auber Digital SSR Power regulator. (I know the PID has a manual mode but I really think I'll prefer the look and feel of a knob for boil control).

Any comments or suggestions are welcomed. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[doug293cz]

No. That circuit is frankly a mess. I think I understand what you want to do, and I'll try to put something together later today that will work.

It's obvious from the schematic that you don't really have the level of understanding of how electrical circuits work to be able to safely implement this kind of project on your own. Please, for your own safety, find someone knowledgeable who can help you put this together.

Brew on

 

[newB_newyorker]

Well Doug293cc that's exactly why I posted here first. I appreciate your interest and any critical feedback.

 

[jmtwo]

Why don't you look at some of PJ's diagrams here:


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=382286

 

[newB_newyorker]

Thanks I was just looking that over actually and Im starting to see why my schematic is a "mess". I clearly have no business designing electrical circuits. I will dive into these circuits a bit deeper and try to customize one a bit and then post a new query.

Specifically, I think this schematic makes the most sense for me but I'd like to customize it a bit. http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a4-2000w-BIAB-120V-A.jpg

 

[newB_newyorker]

So I reworked the above schematic using what I could glean from PJ's designs. Is this any closer? I want the PID to turn on both the pump and element outlets simultaneously. And I'd also like to be able to switch from the PID controlled element circuit to the digital power regulator circuit so that I can manually control the boil via a pot instead of just using the manual mode of the PID. No matter what the design ends up being I'll have to find someone to look it over for me before plugging it in cause Im obviously outside of my comfort zone here.

 

[doug293cz]

You're getting closer. You don't really want to control the pump from the PID, and certainly not thru the SSR. It's too much on & off action for the pump. You probably do want some kind of interlock the makes sure the pump is on before the element fires when under PID control, but you probably don't want to run the pump during boil when controlling with the DSP-1. Also, the selector between the PID & DSP-1 should be a DPDT controlling the drive signals to the SSR.

Got some chores to do. Be back later.

Brew on

 

[brew_ny]

you have a 20 amp GFCI powering a 30 amp outlet with 10 amp switch

so the circuit is what 20 amp ? 30 amp ? or 10 amp?

 

[jmtwo]

I think the PJ diagram you are looking at would do what you want without making up your own diagram.

As stated above, you don't want to control your pump through the pid simultaneously with the element. They should operate independently of each other.

And as brew_ny noted, you're not going to have a 20 amp input going through 10 amp switches to 30 amp outputs?

Not sure why you want to control the element outside the pid? Manual mode works just fine.

If you can get ahold of him, PJ has been known to help with this sort of thing.

Also, not trying to bash on you in anyway. You just really shouldn't wing this sort of thing.

 

[newB_newyorker]

So I realize that it seems ridiculous to try and go out on my own here. I think I will not try and reinvent the wheel and Im just going to use PJ's awesome schematic as is and call on my brother in law's friend to help wire it up. Thanks for everybody's help.

 

[RufusBrewer]

You have a SPST Main power switch. The only thing it feeds is a SPDT that power the two Auber devices. Why? Your SSR AC is a direct connection to the GFI socket, why not put it on the out side of your main power?

Looks like either Auber will turn on the SSR. Huh? And when the SSR is tuened on it will fire both the element and the pump. You will never have a situation where you just the pump on and/or just the element on?

Do you want to control the output of the element, with some sort of on/off cycling? You pump would not like that on/off cycling.

Google does not find what an Auber DSPR1 is.

 

[RufusBrewer]

Looking at the schematics by PJ linked earlier, it reminds me there is something I see regularly in automation and electric designs that causes me great puzzlement.

Why do people put switches between power and PID? Seriously. Why would you do that? It makes no sense to me.

For one thing, I am against needless power cycling of devices. Turn a PID on at the start of the brew session and turn it off at the end.

If you want to activate or de-activate the PIDs, put a swich between the PID and the device (typically an SSR) the PID is controlling.

If the PID has a probe, you can read the probe temp all day long. You can make changes to the PID's settings any time. When you want the PID to do it's thing, switch the output to on.

Maybe I have overlooked something, somebody clue me in.

 

[newB_newyorker]

I cant speak for everyone else obviously but I wanted switches before the PID for two reasons. (1) I just wanted a central power switch so I didn't have unplug the controller if I needed to power it down quickly. (2) The second switch was there in order to toggle between using the PID to control the SSR for mashing and using the digital voltage regulator to control the SSR for boiling.

As far as the pump is concerned, Im a noob and didn't realize that pumps don't like all that switching. I was envisioning using my e-kettle for smaller projects like as a temperature regulated warm water bath wherein the water would be circulated every time the element turned on.

But as I said above, all of this is really moot because Im gonna nix the idea and just do something much simpler. I'll drop the voltage regulator idea and just rely on the manual node in the PID and Im going to use PJs design.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I cant speak for everyone else obviously but I wanted switches before the PID for two reasons. (1) I just wanted a central power switch so I didn't have unplug the controller if I needed to power it down quickly. (2) The second switch was there in order to toggle between using the PID to control the SSR for mashing and using the digital voltage regulator to control the SSR for boiling.

As far as the pump is concerned, Im a noob and didn't realize that pumps don't like all that switching. I was envisioning using my e-kettle for smaller projects like as a temperature regulated warm water bath wherein the water would be circulated every time the element turned on.

But as I said above, all of this is really moot because Im gonna nix the idea and just do something much simpler. I'll drop the voltage regulator idea and just rely on the manual node in the PID and Im going to use PJs design.

Why (or when) would you want to power down the controller quickly? I can see a situation where you want to kill a heating element or a pump. That is easily done with a switch that shuts off the input to the relay.

If you leave the PID powered on, then you can read the display, review and change the settings. When you are happy and want to engage the PID, flip the switch on the output side and you are heating up or pumping away.

And do not get me started about that Kill All switch by tripping the GFI. So wrong.

 

[newB_newyorker]

Yeah what you're saying makes total sense. I like the idea of being able to tweak the PID settings with the relay out of the loop. Also, I already have a dedicated switch wired up to my pump so there's no real need to overcomplicate this controller.

 

[doug293cz]

Ok, it took longer than I thought it would, but here is a schematic for a controller that does what the OP was originally looking for:



The flow switch prevents the PID from driving the SSR unless the pump is running (with at least minimum flow) in order to prevent scorching during the mash, or dry firing with the PID controlling. The flow switch does not interlock the DSPR1 drive of the SSR, as presumably you wouldn't be using the pump during the boil. Outlets are assumed for connection to the element and pump, but not shown.

I agree with @RufusBrewer that the PID Power Switch isn't really needed, and by using a center off DPDT switch for the Controller Select, you can have the controllers on, but neither actually driving the SSR.

Some specifics:

• The main power switch needs to be rated for at least 20A & 120V
• Wire gauge can be reduced as appropriate downstream of the fuses
• The Main Power On Light and the Pump On Light could be integral with the Main Power and Pump switches
• The flow switch is envisioned as something similar to this

Brew on

 

[newB_newyorker]

doug293cz

That's an awesome design thank you!

When I actually get around to building a controller I'll post some progress, but it may take me a while cause I have a lot on my plate this month.

Thanks again to all who commented!

 

[newB_newyorker]

I just wanted to say thanks for everybody's input and helping me to build a safe brew controller with a schematic that works. I had a friend look it over when I was done and then gave it a test last week. I am super excited to brew with it but I am currently moving cross country so that probably won't happen till the end of the month.

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