Brew-Boss Opinions

[cnash]

I've sent the file over to Darin at Brew-Boss and he can't find issue with it, So I am not sure what to do now.
He wants me to send him the log file, but I didn't even know there was a log file? lol

 

[cnash]

After some back and forth with Darin we finally found the issue. Somehow the “50” for the timer wasn’t right it had some weirdness in it. Changing it in the brew steps on the app (deleted the numerical value and retyping it) seemed to fix the issue during the tests both he and I did. So let’s hope the next brew day goes smoothly.

 

[TennBrewer]

At first, I was having some issues with "bad" beer I thought was Hot Side Aeration facilitate by the COFI basket central tube. I have a 20 gallon kettle and make some 10 gallon batches but a lot of 5 gallon batches which barely fills half the basket with grain and about half the kettle with water. This means that a lot of the wort gets sprayed above the grain bed and I believed it was the cause of my HSA problem. But now, after some consideration and consultations I believe the problem to be caused by infected yeast cultures and I have since upped my sanitation practices. To this end, I will brew more batches with the COFI tube. I am not sure how far to open the valve and the force used during mashing. I would think it should be enough to penetrate the grain bed as close to the outer edge as possible while maintaining a constant liquid level (we don't want to lower the level to the point where it exposes the heating element). Is there a technique for gauging how far the wort sprays? I am hoping that by doing this it may improve the brewhouse efficiency which I have going at 55% (sucks). It's not so much that I have to use a little extra grain, it's that the extra grains require more water and it gets to the point where a 10 gallon batch completely submerges the basket (I am not comfortable with that). So, in an effort to improve efficiency and use the COFI mash circulation to its fullest extent, I'd like to get an idea of how far to open the valve.

 

[brewswithshoes]

@TennBrewer i'm not sure if there is a right or wrong way on the valve, but here is what i do and it's yielded me a mash efficiency in the range of 85-88%. (Please note, i've done very few 10G batches but agree with you that i don't like the water covering the basket - so the below is for 5-8G batches that i do with regularity.

1) Double mill. I will run every non-flaked grain twice thru my mill set at BrewBoss recommended gap size.
2) mash with the COFI top off
3) stir in the grains before i turn the pump on, then again right after pump goes on
4) i start the pump with it throttled to about a third open, then every so often i nudge it open a bit more until it's wide open.
5) usually step 3 process is about 15 minutes total, then i throttle back the pump to a third and do a mash paddle stir and start that cycle over again (sometimes recipes with wheat clog the holes, so i occasionally use a bent paper clip end to unclog starting with the lowest holes above the liquid line and work around the tube, then move up - that tends to help keep liquid levels even with those wheat recipes. Also I do use rice hulls on just about every recipe; more with wheat recipes)
6) after mash step is done, i put lid back on hoist to top of the kettle rim for draining while simultaneously starting the heat to boil step. (I do squeeze the basket a lot - i've read lots of comments on this and there is some opposing views, but it works for me)

Since going to this process i've yet to have a mash efficiency of less than 85%

My brewhouse efficiency is not high, but i choose to leave more in the kettle when transferring to avoid trub, etc getting into fermentor.

 

[TennBrewer]

@TennBrewer i'm not sure if there is a right or wrong way on the valve, but here is what i do and it's yielded me a mash efficiency in the range of 85-88%. (Please note, i've done very few 10G batches but agree with you that i don't like the water covering the basket - so the below is for 5-8G batches that i do with regularity.

1) Double mill. I will run every non-flaked grain twice thru my mill set at BrewBoss recommended gap size.
2) mash with the COFI top off
3) stir in the grains before i turn the pump on, then again right after pump goes on
4) i start the pump with it throttled to about a third open, then every so often i nudge it open a bit more until it's wide open.
5) usually step 3 process is about 15 minutes total, then i throttle back the pump to a third and do a mash paddle stir and start that cycle over again (sometimes recipes with wheat clog the holes, so i occasionally use a bent paper clip end to unclog starting with the lowest holes above the liquid line and work around the tube, then move up - that tends to help keep liquid levels even with those wheat recipes. Also I do use rice hulls on just about every recipe; more with wheat recipes)
6) after mash step is done, i put lid back on hoist to top of the kettle rim for draining while simultaneously starting the heat to boil step. (I do squeeze the basket a lot - i've read lots of comments on this and there is some opposing views, but it works for me)

Since going to this process i've yet to have a mash efficiency of less than 85%

My brewhouse efficiency is not high, but i choose to leave more in the kettle when transferring to avoid trub, etc getting into fermentor.

Thanks for the info, I almost always double crush my grain on my own mill with about a .035" gap. I use a Locline tube for recirculating which is about 2 feet long with articulated sections with holes that can be bent into any shape. I usually bend it into a corkscrew shape making sure the topmost hole is submerged. I don't think I've ever opened the valve nearly half open. I stir the mash once or twice, then after mash out, remove the Locline and lock the top of the basket on before giving it a good squeeze. My mash efficiency is usually around 75-78%. I am going to try your method with the pump valve gradually opened all the way and watching the liquid level. I have a brew session ready to go tomorrow so I'll post my results shortly after.

 

[brewswithshoes]

Thanks for the info, I almost always double crush my grain on my own mill with about a .035" gap. I use a Locline tube for recirculating which is about 2 feet long with articulated sections with holes that can be bent into any shape. I usually bend it into a corkscrew shape making sure the topmost hole is submerged. I don't think I've ever opened the valve nearly half open. I stir the mash once or twice, then after mash out, remove the Locline and lock the top of the basket on before giving it a good squeeze. My mash efficiency is usually around 75-78%. I am going to try your method with the pump valve gradually opened all the way and watching the liquid level. I have a brew session ready to go tomorrow so I'll post my results shortly after.

Are you not using the COFI tube to recirculate in the mash?

 

[TennBrewer]

I was not using the COFI tube to recirculate the mash, I used a LocLine tube for recirculating. I believed that the COFI tube was spraying wort through the air over the grain bed for that portion that was above the liquid level. I had some bad off-flavors in a few batches and I believed it was oxidation. I have since done some research on oxidation and Hot Side Aeration and no longer think the COFI tube was the cause and it may have been contaminated yeast cultures. I have since dumped all my cultures, instituted new sanitation practices and hope that this was the real cause of the awful off-flavor. I have since made a 10 gallon batch of NEIPA (w/fresh dry yeast) using the COFI tube and recirculating the mash without the top cover of the COFI basket and the valve practically wide open (maybe this was too open because after the mash was completed, the grains near the top were pushed to edge and piled up there so it may cost a little in the mash efficiency). I wasn't using much force for recirculating and my mash efficiency was below 50%, this last time with more circulation my mash efficiency was 69%. Not great, but an improvement.

 

[shemp]

How does throttling the pump down help efficiency?

 

[brewswithshoes]

I’m not certain that throttling down the pump increases efficiency, but for me it's more about changing the circulation channels in the grain bed using the pump velocity.

Also, I pretty much mash with the top of the cofi basket off now, so I can occasionally stir up the grain bed as I was finding dry spots or dough balls when I would just start the mash and leave it. I still think the cofi tube is worth the use, but I feel it just needs a little more agitating/stirring to increase efficiency. I really wish there was some type of mini mash turning paddles like I've seen in some brewery mash tuns. (maybe there already is something out there, but doubt it would be worth the added cost or hassle)

I'm ok with my mash efficiency now using my process and I can predict and typically hit my numbers, which is more important to me.

 

[TennBrewer]

What is everyone getting for boil off per hour? I’m settled in at about 61-63% power which gets me 1.32gph. Curious what everyone else was getting? I’m using the 15gal system.

I have the 20 gallon system and yesterday I checked the boil off rate with 18 gallons of water, a 30 minute boil at 75% heater power. I made all measurements using the markers on the inside of the kettle at ambient temperature which was about 63 degrees. After a 30 minute boil and an overnight cooling off period, the level in the kettle was just a little above 16 gallons. This would be about 1.8 gallons boiled off after 30 minutes. Now, at first, this was rather shocking but after some contemplation I realized there are a few factors that may affect this rate. First, there is a lot of boiling going on before the Boil Detect Status determines that the boiling point has been reached, although this is a relatively short time there is quite a bit of steam coming off the top prior to the boil detection and may account for about 10% of the loss, I can't do anything about this that's just the way it is. Second, the Boil Power parameter was set to 75% because I wanted a good rolling boil. If I reduce this to about 63-65% I may not get as much evaporation. Lastly, after the 30 minutes was up, the water cools down slowly as I am not using any chillers to reduce the temperature quickly. There is quite a bit of steam rising from the kettle during the cool-down period and I would guess that may account for about 20% of the loss. If I apply that to the measured rate, it would be about 1.44 gallons after 30 minutes. A full 60 minute boil would then lose about 2.88 gallons plus a tiny bit more until I can get it chilled, maybe just a bit under 3 gallons. That's still quite a bit in my opinion. I see where one fellow boils with 95% covered with the lid and 35% power. This definitely reduces the amount of loss but I would think there might be a potential DMS problem, especially when brewing lagers.

 

[RoguePixels]

That's really interesting. I'm using the 15gal system for 5gal batches and get around 1.25 gal boiled off per hour. I set my power to 64-70% during the boil and use a counterflow chiller to rapidly drop the temp for pitching which might be reducing the evaporation rate at the end. I never boil with the lid on and have it setup under a range hood to pull off evaporation during the boil. 2.8 boil off/hr seems high.

 

[jturman35]

That's really interesting. I'm using the 15gal system for 5gal batches and get around 1.25 gal boiled off per hour. I set my power to 64-70% during the boil and use a counterflow chiller to rapidly drop the temp for pitching which might be reducing the evaporation rate at the end. I never boil with the lid on and have it setup under a range hood to pull off evaporation during the boil. 2.8 boil off/hr seems high.

About the same here. 1.32gph @ 63-67% power.

 

[Mike Howard]

I brew 15 gallon batches on the 20 gallon system and I get a boil rate of about 1 gallon per hour +/- a small amount and I let the system determine the boil and the power. I usually get around 1/2 gallon cooling so I usually start my boil with around 17.5 - 18 gallons of wort as I'm doing 60 minute boils.

 

[h22lude]

I'm about .8 gallons per hour. I cover with a lid (leaving a small crack) and element power at 30%

 

[TennBrewer]

Update to my original post on the boil-off rate for the 20 gallon kettle: I brewed an 11 gallon batch the other day with a 60 minute boil. The boil power parameter setting was 63% and I left the lid on about 50% covered. It was not a vigorous boil but it was a slow, gentle, rolling kind of boil. The ambient temperature was about 53 degrees with high humidity. I started with 17.25 gallons and after 60 minutes ended with 16 gallons, that's 1.25 gph. A definite improvement. I will need to adjust my strike water volume as I had finished with a lot more than the 11 gallons I planned on. My only concern is DMS (this is a lager) and after fermentation I will do a DMS test.

 

[21jason21]

Here is my temp setup:

View attachment 607421 View attachment 607422

I would like to find out some details about this setup! Where did you get the shelving?

 

[Mike Howard]

I'll dig up the Make/Model/Part Numbers of everything I used and post them up here in this thread.

 

[21jason21]

I just started a Facebook Brew Boss group if anyone is interested.

 

[cnash]

I just started a Facebook Brew Boss group if anyone is interested.

Can't find it, what's it called?

EDIT: Found it, for those having issues it's the Brew-Boss Electric Brewing User's Group