Brett Fruit Beers

[NuclearRich]

Did you read what the question was, that started this whole conversation?

Yes.... I did....
That's why I responded.

If you don't put a lot of Brett into the priming solution and do the math between your estimated volumes of co2 and FG you can adjust your gravity of your priming solution and use a vial from WL, there there cultures are so small you shouldn't have to worry about bottles exploding.

Doing the math isnt going to help you know how much lower the brett will take it, because you just dont know, especially when you add fruit. You can guess, but its a risk.
Also, If you put a single cell of Brett in, you run the same risk as if you dump a lager starter of brett in. It is going to do the same work, it will take longer perhaps, but it isnt going to help your math. Don't think you know where the gravity is going by the trend on the hydro. Wait until its stable. There are too many variables with Brett to take shortcuts with guessing.
My personal preference would be to avoid bottle bombs and gushers. Do you really know how much sugar is in the fruit if you are going to not let it ferment out, and bottle? Sugar levels in fruit are an average, and especially variable if the source is a garden or small local farm. Not something I would mess with when talking about Brett secondary. Safety first, and a close second is not wasting beer that has potential to be delicious.

I'm planning on doing a Baltic or robust Porter, let it ferment out for two weeks with a london ale yeast, then racking to a secondary with the addition of rasberries and Brett, bruxellensis for a small noticeable brett characteristic... My question to you is, how long could a beer be left (with brett) in the fruit in a secondary carboy? Since Brett does like to take it's time in eating most of the residual sugars... I appreciate your answer

As stated, you shouldnt put Brett on a timetable because it does what it will. Research and your hydrometer are your best friends. You could leave it in there for years if you wanted.
I disagree that the brett funk will overtake the rest of the beer's flavor, a baltic porter with raspberrise is going to have a lot going on, so the brett funk is going to need a lot to overcome those base flavors. First and foremost, after secondary for a good month or two, take gravity readings every week or two until it is rock solid stable. Then you could bottle as normal. If you plan to long term age it, err on the side of caution: heavy glass, for priming sugar use a formal calculation that accounts for temperature, beer volume, and is weighed by grams (or oz) not by measuring cup.

 

[kaips1]

Do you really know how much sugar is in the fruit if you are going to not let it ferment out, and bottle? Sugar levels in fruit are an average, and especially variable if the source is a garden or small local farm.

ya actually you can take reading off the fruit. like i have stated before, pureeing the fruit, will allow the yeast to get at all the sugars faster and easier but it will also allow you take a hyrdometer reading or a refractometer reading. then you do the math between what your fg(before fruit) is of your wort and what the gravity is of the fruit and you adjust things like time and priming solution. when the question of having a raspberry porter with brett came up, they said slight brett character, that to me says orval. a bottling addition of brett, something that doesnt come out the gate as bretty but grows over time. If youre fg after the yeast and fruit do their thing then the only logical way to go would be......then youd be forced to add brett in the secondary and hope that it runs through quick so its no just a brett porter because brett can swallow up all those aromas you might have wanted from the fruit and original yeast/malt bill(Yes brett can and will take over and change any and all flavors and aromas, thats what it does). As far as bottle bombs or gushers, well that goes back to that simple thing called math, not once have i suggest to anyone to bottle a higher than usual fg of a brett beer and i hardly suggest anyone to bottle in anything other than heavy glass. unless you know what you are doing.

 

[NuclearRich]

ya actually you can take reading off the fruit. like i have stated before, pureeing the fruit, will allow the yeast to get at all the sugars faster and easier but it will also allow you take a hyrdometer reading or a refractometer reading. then you do the math between what your fg(before fruit) is of your wort and what the gravity is of the fruit and you adjust things like time and priming solution. when the question of having a raspberry porter with brett came up, they said slight brett character, that to me says orval. a bottling addition of brett, something that doesnt come out the gate as bretty but grows over time. If youre fg after the yeast and fruit do their thing then the only logical way to go would be......then youd be forced to add brett in the secondary and hope that it runs through quick so its no just a brett porter because brett can swallow up all those aromas you might have wanted from the fruit and original yeast/malt bill(Yes brett can and will take over and change any and all flavors and aromas, thats what it does). As far as bottle bombs or gushers, well that goes back to that simple thing called math, not once have i suggest to anyone to bottle a higher than usual fg of a brett beer and i hardly suggest anyone to bottle in anything other than heavy glass. unless you know what you are doing.

Settle down chief. Im not angry, are you? I just wanted to add (something that may be a different POV than your own) to the advice you were giving the other poster. I like what you are doing in the OP, and look forward to your results.

 

[NuclearRich]

ya actually you can take reading off the fruit. like i have stated before, pureeing the fruit, will allow the yeast to get at all the sugars faster and easier but it will also allow you take a hyrdometer reading or a refractometer reading.

Also, I understand that you can take the measurement. What I am getting at, is that a fruit puree is not a good source for measurement. How much of the fruit solids in solution are unfermentable? If you squeeze the juice out and measure it in a refractometer or hydrometer, you are only measuring the juice and not accounting for what is left in the fruit solids. The most accurate measurements would need an accurate source, so in the above mentioned case, you would want to use pure juice. If you do secondary fermentation on the fruit, pureed fruit is fine.

 

[kaips1]

Added the Chardonnay soaked oak to each bucket. Bottling next month.

 

[kaips1]

Bottling the apricot


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[kaips1]

Bottled the blackberry Brett today.


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[Coff]

The Pellicles you folks using buckets on these brett beers look amazing, alot of o2 exposure it would seem. I barely get a pellicle in my Better Bottles and glass carboys until I pull a sample. Which usually isnt for 3 months.

I was on a kick with Brett Saisons with fruit in the summer/fall, they both turned out fantastic. I did one with Mangos that I pureed then racked onto for 3 months and the other was fresh NJ Peaches from a farm in South Jersey. I went with 1.25lbs of fruit per gallon, and the ECY03 brett blend. I plan to do many more when fruit season rolls around again.

Cheers!

 

[Matteo57]

I might have missed it, but how did they all taste so far uncarbed?

 

[kaips1]

Honestly in hustle and bustle of bottling I forgot to sample them, if aroma is any indicator. They smelled luscious, fruit and Brett. I'll have to remember to take a sip of the other two when I bottle them.


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[kaips1]

The Pellicles you folks using buckets on these brett beers look amazing, alot of o2 exposure it would seem. I barely get a pellicle in my Better Bottles and glass carboys until I pull a sample. Which usually isnt for 3 months.

I was on a kick with Brett Saisons with fruit in the summer/fall, they both turned out fantastic. I did one with Mangos that I pureed then racked onto for 3 months and the other was fresh NJ Peaches from a farm in South Jersey. I went with 1.25lbs of fruit per gallon, and the ECY03 brett blend. I plan to do many more when fruit season rolls around again.

Cheers!

When these were in primary they didn't have pellicles, only after transfer did the pellicles form.


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[PLOVE]

Interesting. I racked two 5gal lambics (1 roselare, 1 lambic bland) into better bottles and 1wk in a plastic primary. Super clean. Even added boiled oak cubes for the beasties. Nothing. I'm patient, so I'm willing to accept that no pellicle means no O2, but I'm a tad surprised. I've had clean beers that had pellicles two weeks into fermentation. These are in month 3 and look as clean as the day they were racked into better bottles. I just assume brett, pedio, and the rest of the gang are taking their sweet time. I'll wait - it'll be worth it.

P

 

[kaips1]

I have a sour going that has ecy20, es bam culture, dc02, iris c2 and st Bretta culture, plus a sour dreg mix. It has no pellicle and is almost 3 months old it hasn't had exposure to the atmosphere since it went in the BB. The fermentation was almost explosive at first and long since died down. I honestly don't expect a pellicle on it till I either have to move it or its year two and time to taste


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[NuclearRich]

Interesting. I racked two 5gal lambics (1 roselare, 1 lambic bland) into better bottles and 1wk in a plastic primary. Super clean. Even added boiled oak cubes for the beasties. Nothing. I'm patient, so I'm willing to accept that no pellicle means no O2, but I'm a tad surprised. I've had clean beers that had pellicles two weeks into fermentation. These are in month 3 and look as clean as the day they were racked into better bottles. I just assume brett, pedio, and the rest of the gang are taking their sweet time. I'll wait - it'll be worth it.

P

2weeks is wayyyy too early for a lambic to show signs of funk. Give it 6months before you even look at sampling it, but easily more like 12-18

 

[Coff]

When these were in primary they didn't have pellicles, only after transfer did the pellicles form.


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Yea no pellicles, I don't open my fermenters until I absolutely need to and the Better Bottles do an awesome job of keeping o2 out. But once I racked it onto the fruit there was some o2 exposure, so a pellicle formed.

 

[kaips1]

Blueberry before bottling

Raspberry before bottling, notice all the color sucked out of the raspberries.


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[kaips1]

Apricot Brett, it's intense and very good. Lots of sour with a sweetness that fits right in. Very happy with this bottle





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[kaips1]

Had a raspberry bottle about 2 days after the apricot and it was pretty spot on. Not as carbed as I would have liked it, probably needs more time. Besides the carbonation, it was as expected, nice sour and tartness with some raspberry in the flavor and nose. Good body to the beer. So far this has been a very successful brew. Hopefully trying the blueberry tonight. Will report back how it is.


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[kaips1]

Blackberry Brett, it's the reason I started this project and it was saved for last for that reason. This was worth it. Awesome aromas of funk and sour and blackberry. The flavors of sour fruit overpower everything else. This will lead to me doing a full 5 gallon batch next just for blackberry.

So far blackberry, raspberry and apricot worked out the best. The blueberry may grow on me and isn't bad just not exactly what I was hoping for I guess.

Now time to go get more blackberries.


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[mbbransc]

Can you post a pick of a raspberry? I'm curious of the color after it extracted so much in secondary.

What was your fruit:beer ratio for raspberry and blueberry? If I missed it earlier, I apologize.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Looks great! Glad it all turned out

 

[kaips1]

Can you post a pick of a raspberry? I'm curious of the color after it extracted so much in secondary.

What was your fruit:beer ratio for raspberry and blueberry? If I missed it earlier, I apologize.

I don't have a pic of the raspberry but next time I open one I post a pic, it honestly didn't pull as much color as the raspberries showed in loss. I will be increasing the amount next time, for more flavor and color.
The ratio for raspberry was almost 2 lbs for around 2.5 gallons of beer.
Blueberry was 3.1 lbs for around 2.5 gallons.


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[kaips1]

One thing I didn't do that I wish I had and will make a point to do next time, is to blend the 2 base batches. They are brewed to the same recipe and use the same yeast but I'm just crazy and want to.


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[kaips1]

Looks great! Glad it all turned out

Thanks, I'm stoked on the results and I've already planned out the next batch. I'm gonna do 5 gallons of blackberry next time and just do a split of apricot and raspberry.


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[sweetcell]

I don't have a pic of the raspberry but next time I open one I post a pic, it honestly didn't pull as much color as the raspberries showed in loss.

well, folks can see how yellow the raspberries are in the bucket, in the photo above...

I will be increasing the amount next time, for more flavor and color.
The ratio for raspberry was almost 2 lbs for around 2.5 gallons of beer.

yeah, that's a little on the low side. standard fruiting rates seem to be closer to 2 lbs/gallon.