Brett B Pale Ale questions

[harrymanback92]

Hey guys,

Before I go any further I need to preface this thread very quickly: I've never brewed with Brett, at all. Not in secondary, at bottling, or in primary. However, I LOVE Brett Beers. Orval being my favorite(I do understand Orval is brewed first with Sach, then Brett.). So, I figured I'd dive straight into it.

I brewed a 100% Brett beer yesterday, a variation of my house Pale Ale. Here's the recipe:


OG: 1.054
IBU:62.3
(Estimated) FG: 1.005 (with brett. normally I end up around 1.016)
Efficiency: About 65% (haven't brewed in nearly 6 months, made some mistakes this time around)
7.2lb 2-row
3.2lb wheat
2.2lb Munich
.5lb Flaked Oats
.3lb Carapils

Mashed high: 161F for 2 hours
Boil time: 75 minutes

Hop Schedule
1.5oz Casacde 6.3%AA: FWH
1oz Chinook 11.3%AA: 30min
2oz Cascade 6.3%AA: 15
1oz Centennial 11%AA: 10min
1.5oz Cascade 6.3%AA: Aroma steep
1oz Chinook 11.3%AA: Aroma Steep
1oz Cascade 6.3%AA: Dry Hop 7 days
1oz Centennial 11%AA: Dry Hop 7 days
Yeast: Wyeast 5112
I'm fermenting around 68-70F. No ferm control, just ambient air. But I have a basement that stays at a fairly constant temperature in the fall.

Now, I wanted to brew it with Brett. Trois. However, Brett. Brux was available and I figured I'd try it. At the very least, I figured with age the hops will fade and it'll be more of a Brett. Beer.

I attempted to make a starter. Let it sit for 7 days. Hardly saw any activity, and it had no noticeable Brett odors. Went ahead and pitched, because I could run by the LHBS on my way home from work. By morning, to my surprise, I was hooking up a blow off tube. The fermentation kicked off strong.

Couple questions though: It looks like all the yeast is on the bottom of the carboy; Is Brett. Brux a bottom fermentor? I've heard Brett. Brux gets fairly fruity when fermented without Sach. Any idea's how this beer will turn out? When I go to bottle it, do I add priming sugar or just wait till it gets to 1.010 (as Vinnie from RR brewing says) and bottle, letting it finish with the residual sugars? Or let it finish, dry hop, add priming sugar and treat it like normal? I was also going to add gelatin to his batch to clear it up, any thoughts on that? I don't have the ability to lager or cold crash.

Lastly, any adivce when working with Brett?

 

[sweetcell]

I've heard Brett. Brux gets fairly fruity when fermented without Sach. Any idea's how this beer will turn out?

you didn't add sacc, so likely... fruity

When I go to bottle it, do I add priming sugar or just wait till it gets to 1.010 (as Vinnie from RR brewing says) and bottle, letting it finish with the residual sugars? Or let it finish, dry hop, add priming sugar and treat it like normal?

vinnie can wait until it hits 1.010 and bottle, because he knows exactly where his beer is going to finish - he's done it before. you are doing this recipe for the first time, so you don't know where it'll end. could be under-carbed, or could be a bottle bomb. i'd consider doing an experiment with one or two bottles - pull some beer off at 1.010, bottle, and keep somewhere safe (like a plastic-lined box) - but i wouldn't risk the whole batch. i'd suggest giving the brett 6 months to finish up, then bottle with priming sugar.

I don't have the ability to lager or cold crash.

you can "cool crash" - put the carboy/bucket in a tub, add some water and then add ice (ice cubes, freezer packs, soda bottle or yogurt containers filled with water and then frozen, etc) as much as as often as you can. 48 hours in an ice bath it usually enough to get the job done.

Lastly, any adivce when working with Brett?

that's kind of a general question, anything in particular you're wondering about?

 

[dcp27]

it seems you're misinformed on using brett as a primary strain. it acts very much like sacch, so your 161F mash is going to be a problem. it does not super-attenuate as the primary strain. also, you will not get any of the funk flavors that you know and love from secondary use like in orval. brett brux in particular is very clean in my experience. this beer will take weeks to finish, not months

also, I would definitely use priming sugar to bottle. just treat this like you normally would your APA

 

[Calder]

Treat it much like a normal beer. I find Brett takes a little longer to finish (a few weeks extra rather than months). Prime as normal.

Not sure what you are going to get. Brett primary beers are generally low hopped. However, this is a whole new world of brewing, with Brett, with lots of experiments to perform and many new styles of beer to be discovered.

 

[harrymanback92]

Sorry for the late response guys. Work picked up and haven't had much time to focus any energy on brewing.

In terms of fermentation, it appears this beer is finished. Krausen dropped about 8 days ago. It's still settling and looks to be degassing (perhaps there's a bit more fermentation occurring?Gonna take another gravity reading tonight). I took my first gravity reading 6 days ago and it came in at a whopping 1.002. Pretty damn dry. I was concerned that my hydrometer may not be reading accurately, but I tested it in water and it's right on spot. And judging by the taste, it's wonderfully dry.

The sample tasted incredible. It tasted like pineapple juice. It was still very yeasty, so I added gelatin to help the yeast settle out. The yeast was way to intense; it almost gave the beer a saison like flavor. Will try the gravity sample tonight and see where it's at gravity/flavor wise. Thinking I'll be cold crashing before bottling as well.

I added in an oz of cascade for dry hopping 8 days ago, and will add some centennial. The aroma coming out of the fermentor smells like the hoppiest beer I've ever had. The aromas of all the hops are coming through exceptionally clean. This is definitely turning out to be an interesting beer.

DCP27: I'm curious if you might have an idea as to why the beer did super attenuate? Your comment did have me concerned, but it seems to be a non-issue. My hypothesis: I made a starter, pitched a healthy amount of yeast, and being that it was only an OG of 1.054, I think the yeast were able to just go to town. Do you have any thoughts on the low FG? I should note, I also pitched at a warmer temperature then I normally would. Just had to get done brewing that day and be out the door, so I pitched at about 81F. Fermentation was rigorous within 12 hours. Needed a blow off tube and everything.

Calder: Just to comment on what you're saying about Brett beers being low hopped. I think one thing that helped a lot (this is purely based off the gravity sample I had) is that I only FWH and hop burst-ed. The bitterness isn't overwhelming at all, but the hop flavor/aroma is amazing. I think had I done a more routine hop schedule (60,30,15,10,5,0) that the bitterness would be to much. Also, using cascade as the FWH gave it a subtle bitterness. I'd have to check my notes but I think the FWH only brought it up to about 15-22IBU.

I had a question about bottling: I like to use DME to prime for my pale ales. I know it's a debated issue, but I find the carbonation to be more to my liking and that there's a creamier head. I would like to prime with DME for this beer. My concern is that the Brett will eat all the DME making it over carbonated, do you guys have any suggestion as to how much DME to prime with?

Say I primed with DME and bottled as usual. (For the record, I'm using champagne bottles) If I were to bottle half as is, and then pitch in a packet of re-hydrated champagne yeast directly to the bottling bucket, would the second half of the batch carbonate with yeast flavors/glycols etc that the Brett could then munch on, creating more Orval type flavors(barnyard, stereotypical brett flavors)? Or should I just wait and do a sach/brett beer in the future?

Lastly, can anyone recommend commercial beers with interesting Brett strains that can be harvested? I'm currently growing a second stage starter of both Orval dreggs (brett. B) and Reyon vert dreggs (brett. b) but would like to try to get some variety in my brett strains. I could buy some, but I also like getting beer with my yeast

Thanks guys!

 

[sweetcell]

I had a question about bottling: I like to use DME to prime for my pale ales. I know it's a debated issue, but I find the carbonation to be more to my liking and that there's a creamier head. I would like to prime with DME for this beer. My concern is that the Brett will eat all the DME making it over carbonated, do you guys have any suggestion as to how much DME to prime with?

good question. normally i'd say that primary brett = treat like a regular ale yeast, but in your case this doesn't seem to apply. you got 96% attenuation in primary, but i'd assume that a subsequent fermentation won't be quite that high. the easy solution would be to use sugar, since it is 100% fermentable no matter what is fermenting it. if you insist on DME it's going to be guess-work... i'd estimate somewhere between DME and sugar, and then cross your fingers.

Say I primed with DME and bottled as usual. (For the record, I'm using champagne bottles) If I were to bottle half as is, and then pitch in a packet of re-hydrated champagne yeast directly to the bottling bucket, would the second half of the batch carbonate with yeast flavors/glycols etc that the Brett could then munch on, creating more Orval type flavors(barnyard, stereotypical brett flavors)? Or should I just wait and do a sach/brett beer in the future?

i don't believe that wine yeast throws off as much 4-vinyl byproducts as sacc, so i don't think you'd get much. furthermore, the amount of fermentation that happens during priming is pretty minimal, so even if it does create them it won't create much. so yeah, i'd wait for a dedicated sacc+brett beer to get those flavors.

Lastly, can anyone recommend commercial beers with interesting Brett strains that can be harvested? I'm currently growing a second stage starter of both Orval dreggs (brett. B) and Reyon vert dreggs (brett. b) but would like to try to get some variety in my brett strains. I could buy some, but I also like getting beer with my yeast

the orval and rayon vert are most likely different strains of Brett B, so you've already got some variety there. all Brett B's are not the identical, in the same way that Saccaromyces S. has a lot of strains (chico, hefe, belgian strains, english, etc).

but to be slightly more useful: for a list of brett beers, scroll to the bottom of http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

 

[harrymanback92]

Thanks Sweetcell!

Any ideas on how I got such high attenuation?