Bray's One Month Mead

[NeverDie]

Thank you for the comments. I am still thinking through the process and any help is appreciated.

I will look into the TILT, but at $135 it may have to wait for my b-day. DM for shipping address.

I agree that the sugars in honey are 100% fermentable but 1# of honey does not contain 1# of sugar. From my research it is 75%-90% sugar. The rest is water and other unfermentable (flavor, aroma, etc.) compounds.

I think 3.6# of honey only contains between 3.6 * 0.75 = 2.7# and 3.6 * 0.90 = 3.24# of sugar.

3.6# of sugar will produce 3.6 * 0.51 = 1.84# of CO2 but 3.6# of honey will only produce (at most) 3.24 * 0.51 = 1.65# of CO2.

From what I've read, the kind of sugar in any particular honey may also vary. That's why some honey's don't crystalize and others do. Not sure if that affects your calcs or not.

 

[renrutle]

Ah, I see. You are accounting for the water content when descrbing the fermentability. A bit unorthodox, but certainly makes sense in this case.

While writing my previous reply I did think about my use of the word fermentability. And yes I believe I am using it in a different way. We usually use it as you did to indicate what percentage of the sugar added is fermentable. I used it to indicate what percent of the mass added is 100% fermentable. An important clarification. Thanks.

 

[renrutle]

From what I've read, the kind of sugar in any particular honey may also vary. That's why some honey's don't crystalize and others do. Not sure if that affects your calcs or not.

I am still thinking through this issue. I know I made several assumptions including the types of sugar in the honey. (Sucrose, glucose, fructose) The composition will effect my calculations some. I think the biggest one is the water content. 75% - 90% is a big range. My main purpose of this "project" was to come up with an easier way to determine when to make the nutrient additions. Or at least to get close without having to use my hydrometer. I guess I will have to make several more batches and keep good notes.

 

[NeverDie]

I am still thinking through this issue. I know I made several assumptions including the types of sugar in the honey. (Sucrose, glucose, fructose) The composition will effect my calculations some. I think the biggest one is the water content. 75% - 90% is a big range. My main purpose of this "project" was to come up with an easier way to determine when to make the nutrient additions. Or at least to get close without having to use my hydrometer. I guess I will have to make several more batches and keep good notes.

I hope you stick with it! From what I've read, the refractometers that are made for measuring the sugar content of honey can also tell you the water content of the honey. Then rather than assuming, you'd just measure the water content of whichever honey you are using.

 

[loveofrose]

I think the biggest problem is accounting for the CO2 that is dissolved into solution. As anyone will tell you, you cannot remove it all.

 

[Miraculix]

Just sampled my mangrove Jack California lager mead. The aim was to provide enough hungry to let it ferment till the yeast gives up and still have residual sweetness for a semi dry mead. I learned two things. I used the tosna 3.0 schedule.

1. 1.013 is still very sweet for my taste, hopefully the gravity will drop further.

2. It tastes hot (again). No more experiments. Next mead will be fermented dry, stabilised and backsweetened at 11 to 12 % abv.

I found some oak sticks online. I think I will get the mead into glass when finished and age it there a bit on oak before botteling.

The seller says that one needs at least 15 sticks for one gallon and that they are from wood from the south Balkan. Anybody got an idea about what to expect from those and if the recommendations regarding the amount per gallon seem to be all right?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079SNVRXW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Maylar]

Typically 3 oz of oak per 5 gallons for mead, those sticks look like way too much. I think I'd avoid those for mead. Cubes or spirals are good (avoid chips). Balkan oak? Uh huh. Wine oaks are usually American, Hungarian, or French. They're all different in what they bring to the party.

 

[Miraculix]

Typically 3 oz of oak per 5 gallons for mead, those sticks look like way too much. I think I'd avoid those for mead. Cubes or spirals are good (avoid chips). Balkan oak? Uh huh. Wine oaks are usually American, Hungarian, or French. They're all different in what they bring to the party.

Hungary is close to the balkan region. The sticks are aproximately 1cmx1cmx14cm. I cannot get hold of Oak cubes or spirals here (at least not for a reasonable price) so I am tempted to try those sticks out. Everything else is just chips here, which I won't try. It is only 10 quid for 15 sticks.

 

[NeverDie]

The OP recipe refers to the "No heat method." So, I gather that the water isn't sterilized through boiling or autoclaving and then allowed to cool before using it? It's just used as-is? i.e. the theory is that 100 billion yeast cells pitched in a 1 gallon volume will "win" regardless?

 

[loveofrose]

Just sampled my mangrove Jack California lager mead. The aim was to provide enough hungry to let it ferment till the yeast gives up and still have residual sweetness for a semi dry mead. I learned two things. I used the tosna 3.0 schedule.

1. 1.013 is still very sweet for my taste, hopefully the gravity will drop further.

2. It tastes hot (again). No more experiments. Next mead will be fermented dry, stabilised and backsweetened at 11 to 12 % abv.

I found some oak sticks online. I think I will get the mead into glass when finished and age it there a bit on oak before botteling.

The seller says that one needs at least 15 sticks for one gallon and that they are from wood from the south Balkan. Anybody got an idea about what to expect from those and if the recommendations regarding the amount per gallon seem to be all right?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079SNVRXW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

In general, it goes (best to worse) Barrel, thick staves, xoaker, cubes, thin staves (what you are looking at), and the non-advisable chips.

It is best to use low doses of oak so that you get maximal extraction of the full flavor profile.

 

[loveofrose]

The OP recipe refers to the "No heat method." So, I gather that the water isn't sterilized through boiling or autoclaving and then allowed to cool before using it? It's just used as-is? i.e. the theory is that 100 billion yeast cells pitched in a 1 gallon volume will "win" regardless?

Bottled spring water is sterile from the factory. I do use the no heat method as honey harbors very little in the way of contamination and I don’t wish to lose the wonderful volatile esters.

 

[renrutle]

I think the biggest problem is accounting for the CO2 that is dissolved into solution. As anyone will tell you, you cannot remove it all.

I did some additional research on this issue. The amount of CO2 dissolved in solution can be calculated using Henry's law. It relates the amount of gas dissolved in a liquid to the partial pressure of the gas above the surface of the liquid. The carbonation charts we use to determine carbonation pressure in a keg are generated using Henry's law. Since all the air will have been pushed out of the fermenter the partial pressure of CO2 can be assumed to be the same as the atmospheric, or ~14.7 psi.

At 68°F and ~14.7 psi this gives ~0.75 volumes of CO2 in the fermenter prior to degassing. 1 gallon of CO2 weighs ~7 grams giving 7 * 0.75 = 5.25g of CO2. Shaking the fermenter for a minute or so results in a loss of only 1-2 grams of CO2.

If my previous calculations are accurate each ~5.5g of CO2 produced results in a SG drop of 1 point or 0.001.

I originally planned to make the additions at theses weights.

Weights of fermenter for nutrient additions are:
2/3 : 5544 - 217 = 5327
1/3 : 5544 - 434 = 5110

Based on this I will make my second addition at 5115 instead to account for the dissolved CO2.

 

[NeverDie]

Bottled spring water is sterile from the factory. I do use the no heat method as honey harbors very little in the way of contamination and I don’t wish to lose the wonderful volatile esters.

Since the Ozarka spring water bottles are PTFE plastic, you're using them as the fermentation vessels, aren't you? No need to clean or sanitize it beforehand. Nice!

 

[Miraculix]

In general, it goes (best to worse) Barrel, thick staves, xoaker, cubes, thin staves (what you are looking at), and the non-advisable chips.

It is best to use low doses of oak so that you get maximal extraction of the full flavor profile.

Just found cubes on eBay. What would you personally favor, light toast, medium toast or heavy toast?

I have a strong mead about 15% to 16% which is a bit hot. Tending to medium but only because I have zero experience and cannot decide....

If this helps somehow, I like strong and smoky islay whiskey and also tannin heavy and dry Spanish red wine. Not that my mead has to taste like this, but just to give you a hint on the bigger picture of what I like.

 

[loveofrose]

Just found cubes on eBay. What would you personally favor, light toast, medium toast or heavy toast?

I have a strong mead about 15% to 16% which is a bit hot. Tending to medium but only because I have zero experience and cannot decide....

If this helps somehow, I like strong and smoky islay whiskey and also tannin heavy and dry Spanish red wine. Not that my mead has to taste like this, but just to give you a hint on the bigger picture of what I like.

It would depend on the honey you used, but my go to is American Medium Plus toast. It is most likely to balance the alcohol heat. This is what I use in barrels, xoakers and cubes.

Sometimes I use Hungarian if I really want to improve body. I prefer French for cysers.

 

[loveofrose]

I did some additional research on this issue. The amount of CO2 dissolved in solution can be calculated using Henry's law. It relates the amount of gas dissolved in a liquid to the partial pressure of the gas above the surface of the liquid. The carbonation charts we use to determine carbonation pressure in a keg are generated using Henry's law. Since all the air will have been pushed out of the fermenter the partial pressure of CO2 can be assumed to be the same as the atmospheric, or ~14.7 psi.

At 68°F and ~14.7 psi this gives ~0.75 volumes of CO2 in the fermenter prior to degassing. 1 gallon of CO2 weighs ~7 grams giving 7 * 0.75 = 5.25g of CO2. Shaking the fermenter for a minute or so results in a loss of only 1-2 grams of CO2.

If my previous calculations are accurate each ~5.5g of CO2 produced results in a SG drop of 1 point or 0.001.

I originally planned to make the additions at theses weights.


Based on this I will make my second addition at 5115 instead to account for the dissolved CO2.

I suggest you compile all the calculations you’ve done here and set up an experiment in a new thread.

 

[renrutle]

I suggest you compile all the calculations you’ve done here and set up an experiment in a new thread.

I can do that.

 

[Miraculix]

It would depend on the honey you used, but my go to is American Medium Plus toast. It is most likely to balance the alcohol heat. This is what I use in barrels, xoakers and cubes.

Sometimes I use Hungarian if I really want to improve body. I prefer French for cysers.

Ok, thanks.I just bought the cubes, it is Bulgarian medium toast. I hope that the cubes will fit into my demijons

...otherwise it will stay in the bucket a bit longer....

Do you have suggestions on the time in the mead and the amount per gallon or litre? Just a rough idea?

 

[Miraculix]

On another topic, just thinking out loud...

I've read that the co2 going out of suspension "scrubs" out the volatile aromas of the honey. Therefore, the stronger the mead, the more the loss of aroma.

But what if we we stagger the honey additions, not to max out the abv, but to take as much honey as possible out of the influence of the co2 going out of solution?

Let's say we want to make a ten percent mead. If we would want to ferment it dry, we could throw in all the honey at the beginning, but then 100% of the honey would be under the influence of 100% of the co2 leaving the suspension.

If we would split The honey into two additions, meaning letting 50% of the honey completely ferment dry before adding the other 50%, it would mean that only half of the honey would be under the influence of the full amount of co2 leaving the liquid, the second half of the honey would only see half of the co2. We could devide the additions even further to maximize the effect.

Therefore, less aroma loss. Does this make sense? I guess it would be a relatively easy to handle experiment to find out if this is true.

 

[loveofrose]

I suggest 4 cubes per gallon for at least 1 month. Sometimes 3-4 months is required if you really want a lot of oak.

 

[loveofrose]

On another topic, just thinking out loud...

I've read that the co2 going out of suspension "scrubs" out the volatile aromas of the honey. Therefore, the stronger the mead, the more the loss of aroma.

But what if we we stagger the honey additions, not to max out the abv, but to take as much honey as possible out of the influence of the co2 going out of solution?

Let's say we want to make a ten percent mead. If we would want to ferment it dry, we could throw in all the honey at the beginning, but then 100% of the honey would be under the influence of 100% of the co2 leaving the suspension.

If we would split The honey into two additions, meaning letting 50% of the honey completely ferment dry before adding the other 50%, it would mean that only half of the honey would be under the influence of the full amount of co2 leaving the liquid, the second half of the honey would only see half of the co2. We could devide the additions even further to maximize the effect.

Therefore, less aroma loss. Does this make sense? I guess it would be a relatively easy to handle experiment to find out if this is true.

In my experience, there are 2 things that “lose” the honey flavors.

1. High ester yeast: I always love when folks use KIV and say they can’t get the honey. That yeast throws crazy esters. If you like the esters, you will be happy. If not, you won’t be happy they covered up your honey flavor. Use a neutral yeast.

2. High temperature fermentation: “I used EC1118 and everything blew out the airlock”. No, it didn’t. I find this has one of 2 problems. Either the person likes the esters produced by a different yeast (Ex: KIV1116) and are upset they aren’t there.
OR
They fermented at a high temperature because they saw EC1118 will do that. High temperature blew everything out of the airlock (figuratively false but chemically accurate). Try fermenting at 68 F or lower and the problem is solved.

Disclaimer: I hate KIV1116.

In my hands, low temperature and Fermaid O are the key to keeping aroma.

 

[RTHP99]

Hey everyone, I’m going to a shot at making mead in a few days. I’ve never actually even tasted mead, but I figure why not go for it. I think I’m going to do a 2 gallon batch. I have 2 options for fermenters- 6.5 gallon ale pail and 1 gallon carboys. Is the headspace in the ale pail a problem, and if so, am I better off splitting it between two 1 gallon carboys ? I’m going to be making a yeast starter to save some yeast for the next time(if I like the mead). Also, I have a fermentation chamber with temp control. Is temp control imperative for the entire duration, or just until FG is hit? If taken out of the ferm chamber, the temps would be in the low 60s.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Blacksmith1]

For primary it doesn't matter too much. For secondary the 2 one gallons are perfect.

 

[Miraculix]

For primary it doesn't matter too much. For secondary the 2 one gallons are perfect.

I agree! This is how I am going to handle my current batch as well.

 

[RTHP99]

So you’re doing a secondary for this recipe? I figured this was getting bottled right from the fermenter since I didn’t see anything about a transfer to secondary. At what point are you transferring to secondary? Once Fg is reached?

 

[Blacksmith1]

I try to rack anytime my lees reach1/4 inch or more (don't always catch it in time) unless the recipe specifically says don't touch it like the JAOM.
If I'm wrong with this one I'm sure Bray will let us know.

 

[Miraculix]

I try to rack anytime my lees reach1/4 inch or more (don't always catch it in time) unless the recipe specifically says don't touch it like the JAOM.
If I'm wrong with this one I'm sure Bray will let us know.

Why are you removing healthy yeast during active fermentation? What is the purpose?

 

[Blacksmith1]

It's the advice I was given on this forum by people.who have been doing this a lot longer than I have, and so far it has worked well.

 

[Miraculix]

It's the advice I was given on this forum by people.who have been doing this a lot longer than I have, and so far it has worked well.

Well, from a logical perspective I would say, doesn't make sense!

 

[NeverDie]

Well, from a logical perspective I would say, doesn't make sense!

Aren't all the mead yeast of type Saccharomyces cerevisiae and consequently all "top fermenters" (whatever that means)? So, if it's sitting on the bottom, is it even doing anything? Or is it just hibernating?