Bray's One Month Mead

[RegarRenill]

I can only answer 3). In beer you only want the top layer (lighter colored) of "trub" because the lower (darker) layer also contains particulate from the wort(bits of grain, etc). With traditional no worries about that, just take the whole yeast cake, but there's not much way to separate fruit pulp/spices from the yeast in melomels and the like...I usually make a "starter" with my pricey liquid yeast and "farm" it... I build it up to 2L from 1/2L remove 1/2 for my "seed", build it back to 2L and pitch it. Next time I take the 1/2L I saved in the fridge and repeat...I've done that for a year, no problems so far. I am planning on getting a new batch of 1388 this winter, though, so as not to push my luck ;-)

 

[loveofrose]

Hello Bray and other mazers on this thread.

I have to first give a big 'thank you' to Bray for providing this wonderful mead recipe here and being so extraordinarily helpful to everyone. I started my brewing life with more traditional meads, but switched to cider because that fits my wife's "patience profile" a little better . It's great to find a real mead that satisfies the same demands!

I'm currently nearing completion on my 4th batch of BOMM or BOMM-inspired mead. The first batch nearly vanished at bottling time, but I managed to save two 16-oz bottles to let them mellow. I have 2 more 1-gal near-BOMM batches (different ale yeasts because I couldn't get the 1388) stewing with some vanilla and oak, and I have a 3-gal batch of true BOMM almost done with fermentation.

I'm not a very experienced brewer, so I have some process questions I'd like to ask the community.

1) A couple of times, step-feeding has been discussed as a way to get a sweeter end product. When doing that, is the best way to calculate ABV to just sum the "delta" SG at each step, converting to ABV change as you go?

2) If step feeding until the yeast "give up" - is the yeast pretty much dead at that point? As in, it could not be re-used for another batch.

3) Regarding reusing yeast: how do you get just the top layer of sludge when you're working through a little hole several inches away from said sludge?

Next up is another batch of BOMM using a local wildflower honey (I'm just up the road from you, Bray - it's from Denison).

Thanks in advance!
--Roger

1) The easiest way is to add up the points that have dropped. It is not very accurate, but gets you in the ballpark. For the more accurate way, you would need factor in final volume.

2) Not dead, just stunned. If you take these yeast and add to a new batch they will go nuts. It's like you trying to exercise in a smoke filled room versus fresh mountain air. Just too toxic with high ABV.

3) For traditionals, I don't seperate anything. Just dump the slurry in the next batch.

Good to hear there are mazers in the area. Found any decent local honey?



Better brewing through science!

 

[rega]

1) The easiest way is to add up the points that have dropped. It is not very accurate, but gets you in the ballpark. For the more accurate way, you would need factor in final volume.

2) Not dead, just stunned. If you take these yeast and add to a new batch they will go nuts. It's like you trying to exercise in a smoke filled room versus fresh mountain air. Just too toxic with high ABV.

3) For traditionals, I don't seperate anything. Just dump the slurry in the next batch.

Good to hear there are mazers in the area. Found any decent local honey?

Thanks again, Bray! I'll let you know how the Denison honey batch turns out. Three of my earlier batches were made with Roundrock Honey. A guy at the Richardson HBS told me it's actually produced in the DFW area, but their website only mentions Central Texas. Be that as it may, it is a very tasty, dark amber honey that made excellent mead. My daughter picked it up for me at the Dallas Farmers Market for $55/gal.

Cheers!
--Roger

 

[brottman]

Sorry if I've somehow blindingly missed this, but are you all doing primary in a bucket or straight to 1 gallon carboy?

 

[loveofrose]

Sorry if I've somehow blindingly missed this, but are you all doing primary in a bucket or straight to 1 gallon carboy?

Either one works fine.


Better brewing through science!

 

[milsman2]

So I have a batch of this sitting at about one month old and fermentation has not shown drop in gravity points in a week. I seem to be stuck at 1.040 and going back I realize missing the K2CO3 was pretty crucial. I also worry that I did not add enough nutrients. Last night I added a bit more nutrient and K2CO3 and stirred a little. If I do not see any activity in the next few days would it be a viable option to toss in 5g of 71B to dry it out a little more?

 

[bluedubbed]

There was an interesting article in Science mag a few weeks back:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25278607

The bottom line is that increasing extracellular K+ and pH increases alcohol tolerance. They supplemented the media with 48mM KCl and 2mM KOH.

 

[IJesusChrist]

So I have a batch of this sitting at about one month old and fermentation has not shown drop in gravity points in a week. I seem to be stuck at 1.040 and going back I realize missing the K2CO3 was pretty crucial. I also worry that I did not add enough nutrients. Last night I added a bit more nutrient and K2CO3 and stirred a little. If I do not see any activity in the next few days would it be a viable option to toss in 5g of 71B to dry it out a little more?

DAP is more important than nutrient with a stuck fermentation. You may also want to aerate again - add a little oxygen. Do these before adding any additional yeast.

 

[IJesusChrist]

There was an interesting article in Science mag a few weeks back:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25278607

The bottom line is that increasing extracellular K+ and pH increases alcohol tolerance. They supplemented the media with 48mM KCl and 2mM KOH.

ehhh, I don't know what the definition of this would be but this sentence makes me wary:
"under industrial-like conditions"

In chemistry, this sentence usually means there's no correlation to laboratory conditions.

 

[brottman]

With ABVs above 15%, does this mead still need Kmeta additions prior to bottling for long term aging?

 

[IJesusChrist]

With ABVs above 15%, does this mead still need Kmeta additions prior to bottling for long term aging?

Be safe, yes. I've heard people who had FG's that didn't move for 3 weeks, bottled, and ended up with bottle bombs one year later

 

[brottman]

I guess I'm referring more to protection against oxidation and infection. I was planning on honey additions to raise ABV until the yeast die off. Is that not enough protection from bottle bombs?

Also - what about sorbate but no Kmeta? Got a friend with a sulphite allergy.

 

[loveofrose]

I can't use sulphites either. Never had a bottle explode or oxidation. I just make sure the gravity is stable before bottling.


Better brewing through science!

 

[IJesusChrist]

I guess I'm referring more to protection against oxidation and infection. I was planning on honey additions to raise ABV until the yeast die off. Is that not enough protection from bottle bombs?

Also - what about sorbate but no Kmeta? Got a friend with a sulphite allergy.

I think if your fg is stable for at least 10 days at the same temperature you should be fine. I'm not clear on the scenario with the 1-year bottle bombs, but it can't be a common occurrence.

Sorbate should do it's job fine if the the fermentation is basically stopped. KMeta kills the yeast, or at least inhibits a very crucial enzyme in their biosynthesis pathways, while sorbate just halt's their reproduction. So the yeast could still come back alive with sorbate and ferment, but not for an extended period of time. In general I just like to believe sorbate basically kills the yeast after an FG is reached.

If you added sorbate first, followed by your honey additions, you will kill the yeast, and once that honey addition hit's its respective FG, it will be stabilized.

(Example:
You're at 1.000, and add sorbate and honey to an SG of 1.01. The yeast may come out of dormancy and ferment. Once they ferment enough to divide, they won't be able to due to sorbate. The SG will drop, for example, to 1.05. At this point fermentation is completely halted and you may bottle at your leisure. Just let everything settle out.)

For oxidation just minimized head space. For corks, turn the mead on its side so the cork stays wet on one portion. This is suppose to lower oxidation. I'm unsure if it actually makes a difference.

 

[Faile85]

Noob here, I think I've worked out most of my questions just reading through this entire thread but I still have a question about back sweetening in steps. Do you add the honey during the fermentation like the nutrients or is this added after primary/racking? I'm not currently on gotmead so I can't look up your sweet BOMM recipe yet.

 

[buzzerj]

Faile85 if you read carefully Bray suggested the following:

Backsweetening:
Most people like to backsweeten a bit. Save a bottle of dry for the 3 month mark and you may think differently.

But I was wondering if it makes sense to add several ounces of honey to the gallon after it reaches the 1-month mark. It would make serving it much easier and more simple. Would that start up another fermetation cycle or all the critters dead by then?

I often backsweeten this way. At this point, it should be at max ABV tolerance. I add some honey and mix. Take a gravity reading. Wait a week and see if it is stable. If stable and above 12-13% ABV, then it's good to bottle.

A good rule of thumb is that 2 oz (by weight) of honey per gallon raises the gravity by .005 points. After a week, it dissolves into solution. Faster if you mix.

Cheers!

 

[IJesusChrist]

Final pH was 3.54 for those that asked!

Have you taken a starting and final pH?

I'll have to remember to do this when I do another batch.
15 gallons bubbling away

Noob here, I think I've worked out most of my questions just reading through this entire thread but I still have a question about back sweetening in steps. Do you add the honey during the fermentation like the nutrients or is this added after primary/racking? I'm not currently on gotmead so I can't look up your sweet BOMM recipe yet.

You will add after your SG hits 1.00.

If you add in additions you will likely start fermentation again. This is how Bray reached 19%abv - by continually adding 1oz additions until the yeast gave up.

In my experience I once added 6oz honey to "rush" the process - the yeast gave up and didn't ferment any of this, leaving my mead very sweet and exactly at my ABV of 15%.

So you have options:
1. Small additions to increase ABV until yeast give up
2. Large addition in which the osmotic stress will shock the yeast and fermentation will cease quickly
3. Stabilize with k-meta and sorbate after your SG is stable for 2-3 days.

Some clarifying agents will remove most yeast and thus stop fermentation if the SG is stable, and your backsweetening is large enough.

 

[Faile85]

Thanks for the replies guys. Right now I'm waiting for my equipment to come in and doing my planning and learning lol I'll post pics as my mead progresses.

 

[Faile85]

Loveofrose have you by any chance attempted anything with Wyeast 4184 or 4632? They're listed as sweet and dry respectively for mead on the Wyeast website. Just curious if there's anybody who's used them.

 

[loveofrose]

Wyeast dry mead was the first yeast I ever used. While it makes very good mead, it needs lots of nutrients and pH buffering. Follow the BOMM nutrient schedule and K2CO3 additions and it will work fine.


Better brewing through science!

 

[IJesusChrist]

What is the flavor profile of a BOMM at 2 weeks, for comparison? I'd like to be at a point where I can know if there is a problem early on and attempt to fix it with nutrient or aeration, or if it's doing fine.

The BOMM right now tastes exactly like a dry white wine, I expect it to clear and taste great in another 2 weeks,

However, using the same practice as a BOMM I replaced water with apple cider. I'm now beginning to believe that the acidity of both the honey and cider may have required a bit more potassium bicarb for a quicker aging. There is an unpleasant sourness at the moment but I've had this flavor diminish before.

 

[Faile85]

Ok so I want to try the 1gal BOMM, got all my equipment finally just waiting on some Wyeast1388. Going to do 2 batches one just plain and the other I'd like to make into a blackberry vanilla melomel. So here's my question, if I want more of the berry flavor and not so much the fermented flavor should I add the berries and vanilla in secondary or primary and at what SG should I rack? Am I looking at racking when it hits below 1.02 or sooner?

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ok so I want to try the 1gal BOMM, got all my equipment finally just waiting on some Wyeast1388. Going to do 2 batches one just plain and the other I'd like to make into a blackberry vanilla melomel. So here's my question, if I want more of the berry flavor and not so much the fermented flavor should I add the berries and vanilla in secondary or primary and at what SG should I rack? Am I looking at racking when it hits below 1.02 or sooner?

As a general rule, unless you REALLY WANT TO, add fruit to secondary.

You'll rack when it hits 1.000 and a substantial amount has cleared (the only purpose for racking).

 

[loveofrose]

Vanilla doesn't inhibit yeast proliferation. Vanillin is metabolized by yeast, therefore, adding to primary is negated.


Better brewing through science!

 

[IJesusChrist]

Vanilla doesn't inhibit yeast proliferation. Vanillin is metabolized by yeast, therefore, adding to primary is negated.


Better brewing through science!

Bray do you have input on post #441?

 

[loveofrose]

What is the flavor profile of a BOMM at 2 weeks, for comparison? I'd like to be at a point where I can know if there is a problem early on and attempt to fix it with nutrient or aeration, or if it's doing fine.

The BOMM right now tastes exactly like a dry white wine, I expect it to clear and taste great in another 2 weeks,

However, using the same practice as a BOMM I replaced water with apple cider. I'm now beginning to believe that the acidity of both the honey and cider may have required a bit more potassium bicarb for a quicker aging. There is an unpleasant sourness at the moment but I've had this flavor diminish before.

Ahh, sorry! Missed this one. At 2 weeks, the BOMM is dry and has some bite from the leftover CO2. Definitely get some honey and also some yeast taste since it's still cloudy. If you follow the protocol, there shouldn't be anything to fix.

For cysers, I generally add twice as much K2CO3 to compensate for increased acidity. Cysers without spices tend to need >2 months to age out the malic acid bite. Apples are very high in malic acid, so it takes a while. Tastes great once it ages out. Wonderful carbonated too!


Better brewing through science!

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ahh, sorry! Missed this one. At 2 weeks, the BOMM is dry and has some bite from the leftover CO2. Definitely get some honey and also some yeast taste since it's still cloudy. If you follow the protocol, there shouldn't be anything to fix.

For cysers, I generally add twice as much K2CO3 to compensate for increased acidity. Cysers without spices tend to need >2 months to age out the malic acid bite. Apples are very high in malic acid, so it takes a while. Tastes great once it ages out. Wonderful carbonated too!


Better brewing through science!

Thanks. I'll do some smaller batches experimenting with the potassium bicarb & nutrients for cysers in the future. Perhas the time can also be dwindled to a month.

 

[Chops1867]

Has anyone made this with WLP570 and Wyeast 1388 to verify there is a difference? Wyeast is difficult for me to get and my White Labs stocking LHBS is within walking distance of my house.
I will be getting 5 lbs. local honey next week.

 

[loveofrose]

Has anyone made this with WLP570 and Wyeast 1388 to verify there is a difference? Wyeast is difficult for me to get and my White Labs stocking LHBS is within walking distance of my house.
I will be getting 5 lbs. local honey next week.

It's been tried. WLP570 does NOT equal Wyeast 1388.

Northern Brewer sells Wyeast 1388 and ships with ice packs if needed.


Better brewing through science!

 

[Chops1867]

Thanks, Bray. I'll just delay the start. I'll be sure to harvest and wash the yeast after as well!